All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

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Hastings or Loyola, all else equal.

Loyola
16
30%
Hastings
37
70%
 
Total votes: 53

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dr123
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby dr123 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:57 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:
dr123 wrote:Have you considered pursuing other options?


I have. I have been denied from virtually every other Ca school I might attend. I was WL at UNC and UGA, but I really actually need (and want) to stay in Ca anyways.

Pepperdine is still on the table with a current offer of 15k/yr. Ultimately, I'm more or less ruling out Hastings due to high COA and a preference for southern vs northern Ca. So, ya. I guess this is becoming a Pepperdine v LLS thread, unless I am wrong about what I think is an inevitable USC ding on its way in the mail.


I meant options other than law school.

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby CO2016YEAH » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:44 pm

dr123 wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
dr123 wrote:Have you considered pursuing other options?


I have. I have been denied from virtually every other Ca school I might attend. I was WL at UNC and UGA, but I really actually need (and want) to stay in Ca anyways.

Pepperdine is still on the table with a current offer of 15k/yr. Ultimately, I'm more or less ruling out Hastings due to high COA and a preference for southern vs northern Ca. So, ya. I guess this is becoming a Pepperdine v LLS thread, unless I am wrong about what I think is an inevitable USC ding on its way in the mail.


I meant options other than law school.


Yep. A lot of them. It took me a long time to get here and I've had some decent careers. Law is the last stop for me (at least it is the next one). I'm confident this is the correct next step for me.

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cahwc12
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby cahwc12 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:02 pm

Fuck you and I hope the mods start banning people like you from the forums. You don't deserve the attention you get and all the well-intentioned posters who try to help.

The worst part is you aren't even trolling, just a fucking idiot. You received the same answer from 14 different posters on the first page--both of these schools are shit and you admit to this just being a "thought exercise" with not enough information provided.

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Mick Haller
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Mick Haller » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:14 pm

thesealocust wrote:Don't attend either school for any reason. Jesus.


This

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Mick Haller
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Mick Haller » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:21 pm

It's almost impossible to see any California law school other than Stan/Berk/UCLA/USC as a good investment.

If you are borrowing more than 60k or so on this venture, you are making a bad decision. Put it this way, you are looking at about 40% chance of full time legal employment, and if you are lucky enough to make it into that group, your salary will probably be around $60,000.

I'd save three years of my life and all the $$ and just cut to the chase and get a 45-50k job and try to work my way up.

<---- Hastings 2012 grad

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby CO2016YEAH » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:26 pm

cahwc12 wrote:Fuck you and I hope the mods start banning people like you from the forums. You don't deserve the attention you get and all the well-intentioned posters who try to help.

The worst part is you aren't even trolling, just a fucking idiot. You received the same answer from 14 different posters on the first page--both of these schools are shit and you admit to this just being a "thought exercise" with not enough information provided.


Wow. Such hostility. Seek help, and medication would probably help too. In the meantime, go fuck yourself.

If you don't like my thread, hit one of the many other buttons on your screen besides the link to it. The well intentioned posters are appreciated. However, there is no use for you here, and probably nowhere. Move along now.

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby CO2016YEAH » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:33 pm

Mick Haller wrote:It's almost impossible to see any California law school other than Stan/Berk/UCLA/USC as a good investment.

If you are borrowing more than 60k or so on this venture, you are making a bad decision. Put it this way, you are looking at about 40% chance of full time legal employment, and if you are lucky enough to make it into that group, your salary will probably be around $60,000.

I'd save three years of my life and all the $$ and just cut to the chase and get a 45-50k job and try to work my way up.

<---- Hastings 2012 grad


Given the accomplishments of a lot of alumns, I have to disagree that these are shit schools. Job market is tough. I know this.

Anyhow, I still believe the CW about these schools being a bad investment is misguided. Law isn't for those looking for a quick ticket to 6 figs; it is for those looking for a life-long career. Stats at graduation and 9 months are short sighted.

Anyhow, I'm determined to make it in this career path. If I retake doesn't work out I will be attending one of these schools.

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Mick Haller
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Mick Haller » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:36 pm

Yes, but if you don't get quality work experience as an attorney immediately after law school, you will never make it as an attorney. Believe me, the learning curve is very high.

It's not that these are "shit schools," it's that the job market for attorneys is shit.

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Cobretti
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Cobretti » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:37 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:It's almost impossible to see any California law school other than Stan/Berk/UCLA/USC as a good investment.

If you are borrowing more than 60k or so on this venture, you are making a bad decision. Put it this way, you are looking at about 40% chance of full time legal employment, and if you are lucky enough to make it into that group, your salary will probably be around $60,000.

I'd save three years of my life and all the $$ and just cut to the chase and get a 45-50k job and try to work my way up.

<---- Hastings 2012 grad


Given the accomplishments of a lot of alumns, I have to disagree that these are shit schools. Job market is tough. I know this.

Anyhow, I still believe the CW about these schools being a bad investment is misguided. Law isn't for those looking for a quick ticket to 6 figs; it is for those looking for a life-long career. Stats at graduation and 9 months are short sighted.

Anyhow, I'm determined to make it in this career path. If I retake doesn't work out I will be attending one of these schools.

Image

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby CO2016YEAH » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:43 pm

Mick Haller wrote:Yes, but if you don't get quality work experience as an attorney immediately after law school, you will never make it as an attorney. Believe me, the learning curve is very high.

It's not that these are "shit schools," it's that the job market for attorneys is shit.


Right. I get that. But there will be successful attorneys that come out of these schools; I will be one of the ones.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby ManoftheHour » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:44 pm

Mick Haller wrote:It's not that these are "shit schools," it's that the job market for attorneys is shit.


That's well said. Back in law's heyday (hell, even back 10 years ago) we were looking at a much different market. Of course, this would all be more fine and dandy if law schools weren't charging up the ass either. If law schools were charging 15k/year for tuition, there'd be a lot less doomsday scambloggers.

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hephaestus
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby hephaestus » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:53 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:Yes, but if you don't get quality work experience as an attorney immediately after law school, you will never make it as an attorney. Believe me, the learning curve is very high.

It's not that these are "shit schools," it's that the job market for attorneys is shit.


Right. I get that. But there will be successful attorneys that come out of these schools; I will be one of the ones.

Are you serious? What are you possibly basing that off of?

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thesealocust
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby thesealocust » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:55 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:Yes, but if you don't get quality work experience as an attorney immediately after law school, you will never make it as an attorney. Believe me, the learning curve is very high.

It's not that these are "shit schools," it's that the job market for attorneys is shit.


Right. I get that. But there will be successful attorneys that come out of these schools; I will be one of the ones.

Are you serious? What are you possibly basing that off of?


He's always been the smart one in class and he'll work hard.

Duh.

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby WokeUpInACar » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:59 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:Yes, but if you don't get quality work experience as an attorney immediately after law school, you will never make it as an attorney. Believe me, the learning curve is very high.

It's not that these are "shit schools," it's that the job market for attorneys is shit.


Right. I get that. But there will be successful attorneys that come out of these schools; I will be one of the ones.

If you were smart enough to ensure this you wouldn't have been in a position to consider these schools in the first place.

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby CO2016YEAH » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:01 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:It's not that these are "shit schools," it's that the job market for attorneys is shit.


That's well said. Back in law's heyday (hell, even back 10 years ago) we were looking at a much different market. Of course, this would all be more fine and dandy if law schools weren't charging up the ass either. If law schools were charging 15k/year for tuition, there'd be a lot less doomsday scambloggers.


Right. I don't hate that there is such a movement against law school, as I believe it is necessary to keep enrollment down and prices in check (this is yet to be seen, however). It also serves to weed out the people that are going into law for the wrong reasons.

There is one thing I've learned from attorneys I talk to away from the forums, though: happy and succesfull attorneys aren't online raving about how awesome things are. Having said that, there are lots of newly minted attorneys and law students facing grim job prospects that have reason to be concerned. However, the beast that dominates us will be the one that we feed. To that end, while I intend to go to the best school I can with the best statistical outcomes, I won't be letting an employment score of 0 get in my way--I will buck the trend.

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Mick Haller
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Mick Haller » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:12 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:
Right. I get that. But there will be successful attorneys that come out of these schools; I will be one of the ones.


The partners at my mid-sized firm, many of whom graduated near median at places like Hastings and USF, would not have a chance in today's job market. Today the firm is hiring top 10-15% types from Hastings, top 5% from USF.

The legal job market has completely changed; you cannot look at results from 5+ years ago as if they hold any meaning in today's market.

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Mick Haller
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Mick Haller » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:15 pm

I am happy and employed, and yet still raving at how terrible the job prospects are. I did well in law school and got lucky. There are dozens upon dozens of people who graduated with me that have $100k+ in debt (in some cases 150k+), and are working part time for $20 per hour.

If you think it can't happen to you, you are wrong. It could have happened to me.

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Mick Haller
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Mick Haller » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:20 pm

Put it this way, only 21% of Hastings' class of 2012 is earning 80k+. 13% made it to big firms. If you missed out on a big firm through OCI, then you have roughly a 10-15% chance of earning enough to justify the debt you incurred, and the time you have lost.

Think about that.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby ManoftheHour » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:24 pm

OP, how many retakes do you have left? 1 or 2?

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untar614
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby untar614 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:28 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:Yes, but if you don't get quality work experience as an attorney immediately after law school, you will never make it as an attorney. Believe me, the learning curve is very high.

It's not that these are "shit schools," it's that the job market for attorneys is shit.


Right. I get that. But there will be successful attorneys that come out of these schools; I will be one of the ones.


Since you are clearly impervious to any kind of odds against you, why sell yourself short? Go to Golden Gate and show us just how great your odds-defying abilities are. Do it, then come back and tell us how we know nothing and playing the odds is stupid because you're better than the odds, and all your unemployed, debtpwned classmates mean nothing, as you're gonna be partner at Gibson Dunn & Crutcher.

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby CO2016YEAH » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:38 pm

untar614 wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:Yes, but if you don't get quality work experience as an attorney immediately after law school, you will never make it as an attorney. Believe me, the learning curve is very high.

It's not that these are "shit schools," it's that the job market for attorneys is shit.


Right. I get that. But there will be successful attorneys that come out of these schools; I will be one of the ones.


Since you are clearly impervious to any kind of odds against you, why sell yourself short? Go to Golden Gate and show us just how great your odds-defying abilities are. Do it, then come back and tell us how we know nothing and playing the odds is stupid because you're better than the odds, and all your unemployed, debtpwned classmates mean nothing, as you're gonna be partner at Gibson Dunn & Crutcher.



Challenge accepted. 8)

I jest. To answer your question, I'll take the most favorable school I can, in California. Berk/Stan/UCLA/USC are not currently option. I ruled out Pepperdine as they didn't kick in cash; that has changed, so it is a three-way race.

In all honesty, Loyola is probably in the lead due to COA and L.A. ties.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Dr. Dre » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:39 pm

OP, if you're so smart as you proclaim, the soundest choice you could make is to not go to lawl school.

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby CO2016YEAH » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:39 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:OP, how many retakes do you have left? 1 or 2?


I have only taken once, so I think that means two.

However, I didn't take this willy-nilly the first time; I have considerable time invested. But, yeah, I'm on target for June.

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby CO2016YEAH » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:41 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:OP, if you're so smart as you proclaim, the soundest choice you could make is to not go to lawl school.


In all honesty, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer (working as whatever else and towards gainful legal employment) than an employed [enter whatever else here]. I'm incorrigible.

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LiquidJames
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby LiquidJames » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:21 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:OP, if you're so smart as you proclaim, the soundest choice you could make is to not go to lawl school.


In all honesty, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer (working as whatever else and towards gainful legal employment) than an employed [enter whatever else here]. I'm incorrigible.


oh dude, i totally know that feel




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