How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

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wifeofsamseaborn
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How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby wifeofsamseaborn » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:23 pm

Hi all,

First time posting, so wish me luck! I attended UChicago's ASW last week, and while I met a few nice people and have no doubt that I'd get a great legal education there, the words that I use to describe my impression of the school are "claustrophobic," "isolated," and "serious." I'm probably being a bit dramatic, but I'm a little concerned that even though I went wanting to fall in love because they gave me enough money that, when combined with my savings, would allow me to graduate with very minimal debt, I still left with a less than glamorous impression.

I also received money from a peer school in New York, but would probably be facing about 50-70k in loans after graduating. Though I didn't fall in love with the school when I visited, I did feel much more at ease and happier there. I much prefer NYC as a city to Chicago (have actually always wanted to live there for a couple of years), and have every intention of spending my summers away from Chicago (possibly in NYC) so that I can build a network outside of the Midwest.

TLS community, what would you do??

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Br3v
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby Br3v » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:26 pm

wifeofsamseaborn wrote:Hi all,

First time posting, so wish me luck! I attended UChicago's ASW last week, and while I met a few nice people and have no doubt that I'd get a great legal education there, the words that I use to describe my impression of the school are "claustrophobic," "isolated," and "serious." I'm probably being a bit dramatic, but I'm a little concerned that even though I went wanting to fall in love because they gave me enough money that, when combined with my savings, would allow me to graduate with very minimal debt, I still left with a less than glamorous impression.

I also received money from a peer school in New York, but would probably be facing about 50-70k in loans after graduating. Though I didn't fall in love with the school when I visited, I did feel much more at ease and happier there. I much prefer NYC as a city to Chicago (have actually always wanted to live there for a couple of years), and have every intention of spending my summers away from Chicago (possibly in NYC) so that I can build a network outside of the Midwest.

TLS community, what would you do??


If you really dislike Chicago that much and plan on moving to New York anyways (and probably aiming to work there each summer) then just go with Columbia.

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Cobretti
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby Cobretti » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:31 pm

Everyone values QOL differently, of course, but its definitely a very important factor to consider so don't feel like you're ignoring conventional wisdom by taking it into serious consideration. For me personally I think I would happily graduate with 50k vs 0 debt in this case. Either way you will be graduating in a great position from a great school, but I think I'd prefer to spend 1-2 years paying off debt in exchange for 3 enjoyable years in law school.

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TripTrip
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby TripTrip » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:33 pm

wifeofsamseaborn wrote:a peer school in New York

Are we talking in code ITT?

What exactly are the offers? Is this a Rubinstein versus Bulter? Or versus Hamilton?

Also, if it is the Ruby, wasn't the seat deposit two days ago?

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sinfiery
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby sinfiery » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:34 pm

Cobretti wrote:I think I'd prefer to spend 1-2 years paying off debt in exchange for 3 enjoyable years in law school.


but

Cobretti wrote:Everyone values QOL differently

wifeofsamseaborn
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby wifeofsamseaborn » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:41 pm

:) I'm new to this internet forum thing, so definitely erring on the side of anonymity.

Thanks for all of the response so far! Glad to see I'm not being impractical for considering QOL. I know UChicago offers a pretty portable degree, but I'm also just thinking about who I want my future community/network to be. Many people who go to UChicago expressed a desire to settle down in Chicago, which I don't see myself doing, so it seems like that community would be less of a fit.

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TripTrip
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby TripTrip » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:44 pm

wifeofsamseaborn wrote::) I'm new to this internet forum thing, so definitely erring on the side of anonymity.

Thanks for all of the response so far! Glad to see I'm not being impractical for considering QOL. I know UChicago offers a pretty portable degree, but I'm also just thinking about who I want my future community/network to be. Many people who go to UChicago expressed a desire to settle down in Chicago, which I don't see myself doing, so it seems like that community would be less of a fit.

It's difficult to really understand your situation when it's presented so vaguely. Perhaps you could just post your estimated total COA for each school? Otherwise if you just want to read what others are thinking, here's the Ruby vs. Hammy discussion thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=203498

I think the QOL assessment is very personalized.

09042014
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby 09042014 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:47 pm

Plenty of people go to U of C for NYC. I would just go. Law school sucks everywhere.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:50 pm

50-70k in loans from CLS or NYU is a great deal. Go to that school, but try to use your scholarship from Chicago to get money from the NYC school.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby TaipeiMort » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:50 pm

Hyde Park is stuffy for many. Some love it because of this enclosed bubble feature. It took a ton of getting used to for me, and I, along with much of my class, still moved north after 1L year. The law school itself seems a bit enclosed because it really houses only about 400 or so people at a time.

The city is nicer. But, I totally understand your sentiment-- New York, SF, and LA don't feel so out-in-the-middle-of-Americaish. I guess I still ended up liking Chicago because most of the people in my class are super pimp, and not self-serious. After 1L year it has basically been everyone hanging out, and I think the class has been good about just extending the love to everyone-- even those that are harder to love.

Bottom line is that I love the school, don't like Hyde Park, and have had a lot of fun.

Also, don't worry about ending up with a Midwest network-- it seems like most of the profs and students are west and east coasters, and the alumni network is really big (most partners per-capita of any school). So, you really just end up with the network from the region you want.

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Emma.
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby Emma. » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:52 pm

Really depends how much you liked the NY school, and how much you disliked UChicago. I'd always say "go with your gut" when someones options are close to equal, but $50-70K is a lot of money when you are basing your decision on the somewhat contrived experienced you get at ASWs.

If you loved the NY school I'd say go there, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Either way you are going to find a niche where you fit in, so I tend to agree with DF when he says suck it up and take the money.

wifeofsamseaborn
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby wifeofsamseaborn » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:57 pm

Totally understand, and I appreciate everyone's effort in trying to respond despite the lack of detail. COA for Chicago = $0 with my savings vs. $50-$70k in NYC with savings. Those threads have definitely been helpful in terms of comparing quantitative factors like $ amounts, prestige, and employment prospects. I guess what I'm still looking for is the general reaction to how much I should factor in something subjective like QOL when the difference is a solid, but not totally outlandish, amount of debt.

For example, some attorneys and current students say that QOL in law school is pretty much bad anywhere and that grad school is different from undergrad in that QOL/culture shouldn't matter as much. We're here to get a degree at the end of the day, after all.

Others say that QOL is hugely important, considering the fact that I'm spending my mid-twenties in a particular city/institution, and that the relationships I develop will last a lifetime. Also that law school is miserable enough, so why not do what you can do alleviate a little if you think you'll feel happier somewhere else?

Sorry for the lack of detail, and appreciate any input!

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Emma.
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby Emma. » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:01 am

wifeofsamseaborn wrote:Totally understand, and I appreciate everyone's effort in trying to respond despite the lack of detail. COA for Chicago = $0 with my savings vs. $50-$70k in NYC with savings. Those threads have definitely been helpful in terms of comparing quantitative factors like $ amounts, prestige, and employment prospects. I guess what I'm still looking for is the general reaction to how much I should factor in something subjective like QOL when the difference is a solid, but not totally outlandish, amount of debt.

For example, some attorneys and current students say that QOL in law school is pretty much bad anywhere and that grad school is different from undergrad in that QOL/culture shouldn't matter as much. We're here to get a degree at the end of the day, after all.

Others say that QOL is hugely important, considering the fact that I'm spending my mid-twenties in a particular city/institution, and that the relationships I develop will last a lifetime. Also that law school is miserable enough, so why not do what you can do alleviate a little if you think you'll feel happier somewhere else?

Sorry for the lack of detail, and appreciate any input!


You are asking for help on an anonymous internet forum with what is pretty much the ultimate in personal questions. No one is going to be able to give you meaningful help about how to put a dollar value on your subjective preferences.

But if what you want is reassurance that it isn't crazy to take $50-$70K in debt to go to the school you'd prefer, I think plenty of people would agree. Personally, for me I think I would have to have VERY strong preferences to pay that much more for what is very much a peer institution.

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:04 am

Emma. wrote:
wifeofsamseaborn wrote:Totally understand, and I appreciate everyone's effort in trying to respond despite the lack of detail. COA for Chicago = $0 with my savings vs. $50-$70k in NYC with savings. Those threads have definitely been helpful in terms of comparing quantitative factors like $ amounts, prestige, and employment prospects. I guess what I'm still looking for is the general reaction to how much I should factor in something subjective like QOL when the difference is a solid, but not totally outlandish, amount of debt.

For example, some attorneys and current students say that QOL in law school is pretty much bad anywhere and that grad school is different from undergrad in that QOL/culture shouldn't matter as much. We're here to get a degree at the end of the day, after all.

Others say that QOL is hugely important, considering the fact that I'm spending my mid-twenties in a particular city/institution, and that the relationships I develop will last a lifetime. Also that law school is miserable enough, so why not do what you can do alleviate a little if you think you'll feel happier somewhere else?

Sorry for the lack of detail, and appreciate any input!


You are asking for help on an anonymous internet forum with what is pretty much the ultimate in personal questions. No one is going to be able to give you meaningful help about how to put a dollar value on your subjective preferences.

But if what you want is reassurance that it isn't crazy to take $50-$70K in debt to go to the school you'd prefer, I think plenty of people would agree. Personally, for me I think I would have to have VERY strong preferences to pay that much more for what is very much a peer institution.


+1.

FWIW, I was not particularly blown away by Chicago ASW experience, and now I am quite fond of many of my classmates.

wifeofsamseaborn
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby wifeofsamseaborn » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:06 am

Thanks, Emma. Totally agreed on the first point (anonymity on the internet definitely limits the usefulness of both questions and answers), and the second point was exactly the kind of opinion I was looking for. It's interesting to see what camps people fall into, so thanks for your input!

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IAFG
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby IAFG » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:12 am

1L and the rest of LS are very separate things. During 1L, it can be hard to escape your classmates, and the culture of your school and be a dominating force in your life. After 1L, you should have a lot of freedom to explore the city, make non-law friends and generally hate life less. So instead of thinking, "is it worth 3 years of my life?" I would really just think of it as one. I mean this really only for schools in non-college town major cities though.

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Emma.
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby Emma. » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:14 am

wifeofsamseaborn wrote:Thanks, Emma. Totally agreed on the first point (anonymity on the internet definitely limits the usefulness of both questions and answers), and the second point was exactly the kind of opinion I was looking for. It's interesting to see what camps people fall into, so thanks for your input!


No problem. As a UChi 3L who has been happy with my choice (and who has no intent to stay in Chicago after graduation) I'm happy to answer questions by PM. Just not tonight—it's getting late!

vzapana
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby vzapana » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:16 am

wifeofsamseaborn wrote:Hi all,

First time posting, so wish me luck! I attended UChicago's ASW last week, and while I met a few nice people and have no doubt that I'd get a great legal education there, the words that I use to describe my impression of the school are "claustrophobic," "isolated," and "serious." I'm probably being a bit dramatic, but I'm a little concerned that even though I went wanting to fall in love because they gave me enough money that, when combined with my savings, would allow me to graduate with very minimal debt, I still left with a less than glamorous impression.

I also received money from a peer school in New York, but would probably be facing about 50-70k in loans after graduating. Though I didn't fall in love with the school when I visited, I did feel much more at ease and happier there. I much prefer NYC as a city to Chicago (have actually always wanted to live there for a couple of years), and have every intention of spending my summers away from Chicago (possibly in NYC) so that I can build a network outside of the Midwest.

TLS community, what would you do??


a significant number of people decline rubies. they do it for a number of reasons. a major one for me is that i didn't like my visit and couldn't see myself really fitting in. if you genuinely don't feel like it's a fit, don't go.

09042014
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby 09042014 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:18 am

IAFG wrote:1L and the rest of LS are very separate things. During 1L, it can be hard to escape your classmates, and the culture of your school and be a dominating force in your life. After 1L, you should have a lot of freedom to explore the city, make non-law friends and generally hate life less. So instead of thinking, "is it worth 3 years of my life?" I would really just think of it as one. I mean this really only for schools in non-college town major cities though.


Even during 1L, you absolutely don't have to live with your classmates. There are tons of people who just show up for the 3 hours of class a day and leave.

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IAFG
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby IAFG » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:20 am

Desert Fox wrote:
IAFG wrote:1L and the rest of LS are very separate things. During 1L, it can be hard to escape your classmates, and the culture of your school and be a dominating force in your life. After 1L, you should have a lot of freedom to explore the city, make non-law friends and generally hate life less. So instead of thinking, "is it worth 3 years of my life?" I would really just think of it as one. I mean this really only for schools in non-college town major cities though.


Even during 1L, you absolutely don't have to live with your classmates. There are tons of people who just show up for the 3 hours of class a day and leave.

"Tons" or a few.

09042014
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby 09042014 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:21 am

IAFG wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
IAFG wrote:1L and the rest of LS are very separate things. During 1L, it can be hard to escape your classmates, and the culture of your school and be a dominating force in your life. After 1L, you should have a lot of freedom to explore the city, make non-law friends and generally hate life less. So instead of thinking, "is it worth 3 years of my life?" I would really just think of it as one. I mean this really only for schools in non-college town major cities though.


Even during 1L, you absolutely don't have to live with your classmates. There are tons of people who just show up for the 3 hours of class a day and leave.

"Tons" or a few.


I'd guess like 25% of my section.

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IAFG
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby IAFG » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:25 am

Well, I could count the people I knew who were like that on one hand from mine.

09042014
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Re: How much for QOL? Money from UChi, but didn't enjoy ASW

Postby 09042014 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:32 am

IAFG wrote:Well, I could count the people I knew who were like that on one hand from mine.


My section had a lot of married people and people who didn't really hang out with other people. It's probably atypical but they all did it.

Nothing about 1L forces you to stay there after class. It's 90% class and reading, and the occasional memo. All of that you can do from home.




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