Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where to go?

Cornell
35
22%
Northwestern
53
33%
Berkeley- who cares about debt?!
41
26%
UCLA
25
16%
USC
6
4%
 
Total votes: 160

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby twinkletoes16 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:14 pm

So Michigan doesn't make any sense? It seems like there's a lot of people that make it back to CA, but is it substantially better CA placement than NU/Cornell?

I'd also like to clerk if possible but lol realistically.

guinness1547
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby guinness1547 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:20 pm

I don't think I've ever seen a poll on this site so closely torn between so many options.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:24 pm

guinness1547 wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a poll on this site so closely torn between so many options.


except lol @ poor USC

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ph5354a
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby ph5354a » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:25 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:So Michigan doesn't make any sense? It seems like there's a lot of people that make it back to CA, but is it substantially better CA placement than NU/Cornell?.


Statistically, this doesn't hold water, unless those Michigan grads didn't report their state. My best advice would be to talk to NU and Cornell extensively and see how much support they give to CA-bound grads and who they can put you in touch with.

It's easy to say "Cornell, obvs" but if you're not happy going some place, or hate the location, you're putting yourself at risk for a disastrous first year. If Cornell/Ithaca/NYC big law seems abhorrent to you, I wouldn't let the statistics alone push you towards Cornell.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... b=location

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... b=location

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... b=location
Last edited by ph5354a on Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:25 pm

guinness1547 wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a poll on this site so closely torn between so many options.


I had one that was pretty close to 50/50 for a long time. Still helped me though, really appreciative for TLS in so many ways.

Twinkle, I personally think Michigan is your worst option because of cost. Even if it does place as well as Cornell and NU (and I have my doubts) it's just too expensive to be a consideration.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby twinkletoes16 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:30 pm

guinness1547 wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a poll on this site so closely torn between so many options.



Dubious award and of course it goes to me :roll:

I don't know if this made me more confused or not.

BigZuck
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:40 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
guinness1547 wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a poll on this site so closely torn between so many options.



Dubious award and of course it goes to me :roll:

I don't know if this made me more confused or not.


The sense I got from the thread (for the most part) was:

Berkeley is out.

If you want big law it's a toss up between Cornell and NU. People here are largely big law or bust and NU is a TLS darling so that was the main one people chose (also it is not near NYC which you hate)

If you want CA then USC/UCLA (emphasis on UCLA).

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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby Real Madrid » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:06 pm

OP, I feel like the answer you want to hear is Berkeley. Am I right?

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby twinkletoes16 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:10 pm

Real Madrid wrote:OP, I feel like the answer you want to hear is Berkeley. Am I right?



I mean, it makes the most sense career-wise/happiness-wise (which could be a big deal during the miserableness of 1L) for me, but $-wise I think it could be really disastrous.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:19 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:OP, I feel like the answer you want to hear is Berkeley. Am I right?



I mean, it makes the most sense career-wise/happiness-wise (which could be a big deal during the miserableness of 1L) for me, but $-wise I think it could be really disastrous.


It appears you can only have two of the the following three:

Low debt, biglaw, CA

So pick the two that are most important and theres your answer

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jbagelboy
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:25 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:OP, I feel like the answer you want to hear is Berkeley. Am I right?



I mean, it makes the most sense career-wise/happiness-wise (which could be a big deal during the miserableness of 1L) for me, but $-wise I think it could be really disastrous.


It appears you can only have two of the the following three:

Low debt, biglaw, CA

So pick the two that are most important and theres your answer


when is cornell's deposit deadline? do you feel comfortable depositing at NU friday but not withdrawing from Cal?

keep boalt open till June 1st. the cycle is changing, evolving, mutating. a school emailed me today with an updated scholarship offer that I didn't even request. pull them to the wire, keep the ball in their court and never stop pushing

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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby bizzybone1313 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:28 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:OP, I feel like the answer you want to hear is Berkeley. Am I right?



I mean, it makes the most sense career-wise/happiness-wise (which could be a big deal during the miserableness of 1L) for me, but $-wise I think it could be really disastrous.


It appears you can only have two of the the following three:

Low debt, biglaw, CA

So pick the two that are most important and theres your answer


There-- I picked the two most important ones. I have never understood why people like Cali so much. Their bar exam is difficult; the COL is too high; and the state is falling apart and always on the verge of being bankrupt. If I was originally from Cali, I would be trying to figure out a way to end up in a nearby state like Arizona (Phoenix) or Nevada (Las Vegas) and then just fly in to see my family whenever possible.

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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:29 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:OP, I feel like the answer you want to hear is Berkeley. Am I right?



I mean, it makes the most sense career-wise/happiness-wise (which could be a big deal during the miserableness of 1L) for me, but $-wise I think it could be really disastrous.


It appears you can only have two of the the following three:

Low debt, biglaw, CA

So pick the two that are most important and theres your answer


There-- I picked the two most important ones. I have never understood why people like Cali so much. Their bar exam is difficult; the COL is too high; and the state is falling apart and always on the verge of being bankrupt. If I was originally from Cali, I would be trying to figure out a way to end up in a nearby state like Arizona (Phoenix) or Nevada (Las Vegas) and then just fly in to see my family whenever possible.

Yeah, I tend to think that if you're young and have no SO or children to worry about location should never be more important than a job and debt considerations. Its not like we're choosing between LA and Oklahoma here. But not everyone is going to feel that way.

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052220151
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby 052220151 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:32 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:OP, I feel like the answer you want to hear is Berkeley. Am I right?



I mean, it makes the most sense career-wise/happiness-wise (which could be a big deal during the miserableness of 1L) for me, but $-wise I think it could be really disastrous.


It appears you can only have two of the the following three:

Low debt, biglaw, CA

So pick the two that are most important and theres your answer


There-- I picked the two most important ones. I have never understood why people like Cali so much. Their bar exam is difficult; the COL is too high; and the state is falling apart and always on the verge of being bankrupt. If I was originally from Cali, I would be trying to figure out a way to end up in a nearby state like Arizona (Phoenix) or Nevada (Las Vegas) and then just fly in to see my family whenever possible.


This is a stupid opinion, and Arizona and Nevada are objective shitholes.

FWIW, I don't think you'll have trouble getting back to CA from NU/Cornell. I work in a west coast firm and people are always coming back here from T14 with ties. It's anecdotal, but I believe it to be common practice. LST's state placement is misleading due to self selection IMO

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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:41 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:OP, I feel like the answer you want to hear is Berkeley. Am I right?



I mean, it makes the most sense career-wise/happiness-wise (which could be a big deal during the miserableness of 1L) for me, but $-wise I think it could be really disastrous.


It appears you can only have two of the the following three:

Low debt, biglaw, CA

So pick the two that are most important and theres your answer


There-- I picked the two most important ones. I have never understood why people like Cali so much. Their bar exam is difficult; the COL is too high; and the state is falling apart and always on the verge of being bankrupt. If I was originally from Cali, I would be trying to figure out a way to end up in a nearby state like Arizona (Phoenix) or Nevada (Las Vegas) and then just fly in to see my family whenever possible.


Californians are almost as bad as Texans with the state pride thing. We are hard to be convinced that the west coast is not the best coast.

Agreed on Phoenix and Las Vegas being objectively terrible. Somehow they manage to be worse than Los Angeles, which is not an easy thing to be.

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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby untar614 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:48 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
untar614 wrote:
TrialLawyer16 wrote:Cornell easily.

No way is NU worth $40k (more like $50k after interest) more than Cornell if you want Cali BigLaw. No way. It's pretty shocking that NU is in the lead right now.

Also, you'd need approximately to be about top 30% at UCLA/USC to get Cali Biglaw and top 30% (probably even a good deal lower) at Cornell would do the same for you at a cheaper cost. Also, since Cornell (like NU) places 60%+ in BigLaw you have double the cushion to still make BigLaw elsewhere (besides NYC since you don't want that), but at $50k (after interest) cheaper than NU. If you get Cali BigLaw from Cornell you'd save a couple years of loan payments, and if you finish bottom third of the class at Cornell and strikeout at OCI that $50k you saved will be huge if you're making around $60-$70k a year. I think picking Cornell is perfectly hedging your bets.

I'm somewhat skeptical about the math re: COL numbers. Once its been narrowed down a bit, I'd do some searching to see what things really cost in that regard.

On a side note, the poll is looking increasingly unhelpful.



Yeah, I'd LOVE for someone to review my COA numbers because I very well could be wrong on them and the difference between NU and Conell could be less.

And re: poll....yeah. Now you see why I came to you guys because I've been going back and forth over and over.

I wouldn't mind laying out the calculations and doing the math for you - that'd take me all of 5 minutes. The hard part, which you need to do (because 1. I'm not THAT nice, and 2. I can't read your mind) is do some research and figure out what your actual living situation would be if you attended each of these places and what it would cost you. I only have experience with Northwestern, but I know there, there is a huge difference between living next to school and having a car versus living 20 minutes away and just using public transit. Rent can vary a lot. Other things you may need to consider are whether or not you can find a 9month lease - if not, assume you will be paying 12 months of rent. Determine your transportation situation and what associated costs there will be (e.g. paying for parking, public transport fees). Also figure out if food is radically more expensive in one place. Collect all these numbers, along with tuition, ofc, and any assumptions you may want to make (e.g. 30k 2L SA, 5k stipend for 1L summer, or maybe you think you can get a 1L SA, idk) and i'll do the math for you. The numbers may be radically different, they may not, but if it's coming this close, it's probably better to figure out exactly what it will cost you personally rather than the rough and sometimes questionable COA estimates provided.

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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby Real Madrid » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:01 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:OP, I feel like the answer you want to hear is Berkeley. Am I right?



I mean, it makes the most sense career-wise/happiness-wise (which could be a big deal during the miserableness of 1L) for me, but $-wise I think it could be really disastrous.


On the one hand, there's something to be said for going to school where you'll be happiest. I chose to go to Boalt at sticker over money from a couple of other T14s, but my circumstances were a bit different, and the money wasn't as huge as your NU offer. Furthermore, Boalt at sticker doesn't necessarily have to be a bad decision - it's just that, given your circumstances, there's a good chance you could regret it.

But, if at the end of the day, you can only see yourself being happy in California - and, after all, you're still undecided despite all the votes in NU's favor - maybe you've already made your decision and you should just go to Cal. I can't say you may not regret it, but after all, you only live once. And if you'd be happier potentially being on IBR in California than with a decent job in, say, NY, well, it's your life to live.

Best of luck!

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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:03 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:It appears you can only have two of the the following three:

Low debt, biglaw, CA

So pick the two that are most important and theres your answer


There-- I picked the two most important ones. I have never understood why people like Cali so much. Their bar exam is difficult; the COL is too high; and the state is falling apart and always on the verge of being bankrupt. If I was originally from Cali, I would be trying to figure out a way to end up in a nearby state like Arizona (Phoenix) or Nevada (Las Vegas) and then just fly in to see my family whenever possible.


Okay, this is not at all relevant. OP is interested in practicing in CA, this isn't about convincing her otherwise.

People talking shit on los angeles and CA just need to get over it. CoL is high because so many people want to live here, because its awesome and beautiful and relaxed compared to the rest of the country, and doesn't have florida's humidity or tackiness. A lot of americans also just 1) trend more socially conservative, which causes them to resent Californians socially liberal ethos, and to put it bluntly 2) are racist, so they don't appreciate the diversity of SoCal culture. The fact that the bar is more difficult is only relevant to a couple dozens of hours of your life at most. And while I definitely wouldn't advise moving to CA if you are expecting to be dependent on state employment or services, if you are upper middle class (Which is what we are all aiming for in becoming service professionals), this has little impact, although I grant that the state could head in some dangerous directions if infrastructure/education go further down the toilet.

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wert3813
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby wert3813 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:07 pm

Guys how much money would UCLA need to offer to make it the right answer here? 20K 40?

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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby bizzybone1313 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:20 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:It appears you can only have two of the the following three:

Low debt, biglaw, CA

So pick the two that are most important and theres your answer


There-- I picked the two most important ones. I have never understood why people like Cali so much. Their bar exam is difficult; the COL is too high; and the state is falling apart and always on the verge of being bankrupt. If I was originally from Cali, I would be trying to figure out a way to end up in a nearby state like Arizona (Phoenix) or Nevada (Las Vegas) and then just fly in to see my family whenever possible.


Okay, this is not at all relevant. OP is interested in practicing in CA, this isn't about convincing her otherwise.

People talking shit on los angeles and CA just need to get over it. CoL is high because so many people want to live here, because its awesome and beautiful and relaxed compared to the rest of the country, and doesn't have florida's humidity or tackiness. A lot of americans also just 1) trend more socially conservative, which causes them to resent Californians socially liberal ethos, and to put it bluntly 2) are racist, so they don't appreciate the diversity of SoCal culture. The fact that the bar is more difficult is only relevant to a couple dozens of hours of your life at most. And while I definitely wouldn't advise moving to CA if you are expecting to be dependent on state employment or services, if you are upper middle class (Which is what we are all aiming for in becoming service professionals), this has little impact, although I grant that the state could head in some dangerous directions if infrastructure/education go further down the toilet.


Very little of what you wrote applies to me. I am socially liberal, love diversity and would love to live an area that is beautiful. Having said all of that, I am just extremely averse to spending 50-75% of my income towards COL and loan payments. I shit on NYC all the time for the exact same reasons. Living in one of the most expensive cities in the world means I would have to work 10+ more years pushing paper. You never get that time back. You only have one life to live.

I have visited Miami. The city to me was very nice. I wouldn't mind living there especially after the huge real estate market crash. It would be the perfect time to settle down there.

OP, do whatever makes you happy. If I was in your shoes though, there is no way in hell I would attend USC/UCLA with the options you have. By enrolling at USC/UCLA, you would essentially be one of the people that protects or even enhances their medians. You would be doing them a favor, not the other way around. I know a UCLA law grad that is currently working in the oil field (he doesn't do legal work; he actually works with his hands doing blue-collar stuff).

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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby rebexness » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:29 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
People talking shit on los angeles and CA just need to get over it.. A lot of americans 2) are racist, so they don't appreciate the diversity of SoCal culture.


You have got to be kidding me.

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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:32 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:It appears you can only have two of the the following three:

Low debt, biglaw, CA

So pick the two that are most important and theres your answer


There-- I picked the two most important ones. I have never understood why people like Cali so much. Their bar exam is difficult; the COL is too high; and the state is falling apart and always on the verge of being bankrupt. If I was originally from Cali, I would be trying to figure out a way to end up in a nearby state like Arizona (Phoenix) or Nevada (Las Vegas) and then just fly in to see my family whenever possible.


Okay, this is not at all relevant. OP is interested in practicing in CA, this isn't about convincing her otherwise.

People talking shit on los angeles and CA just need to get over it. CoL is high because so many people want to live here, because its awesome and beautiful and relaxed compared to the rest of the country, and doesn't have florida's humidity or tackiness. A lot of americans also just 1) trend more socially conservative, which causes them to resent Californians socially liberal ethos, and to put it bluntly 2) are racist, so they don't appreciate the diversity of SoCal culture. The fact that the bar is more difficult is only relevant to a couple dozens of hours of your life at most. And while I definitely wouldn't advise moving to CA if you are expecting to be dependent on state employment or services, if you are upper middle class (Which is what we are all aiming for in becoming service professionals), this has little impact, although I grant that the state could head in some dangerous directions if infrastructure/education go further down the toilet.


I'm racist because I think LA sucks? WTF?

I'm from California and I lived in LA for a number of years. I think paying out the ass for basic stuff like bud light and parking is stupid, I think wasting your life in traffic is stupid, and I think dealing with a lot of people who tend to be more rude and superficial than in a lot of other parts of the country (Hell, even of California) is stupid. I think LA is stupid but that has nothing to do with my view on people with a different skin color than me.

Twinkle likes LA so more power to her. Personally I think UCLA/USC is probably get best bet based on all she has said. Although I tend to agree with champagnepapi in regards to young single people getting married to a particular state/region.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:51 pm

BigZuck wrote:
I'm racist because I think LA sucks? WTF?

I'm from California and I lived in LA for a number of years. I think paying out the ass for basic stuff like bud light and parking is stupid, I think wasting your life in traffic is stupid, and I think dealing with a lot of people who tend to be more rude and superficial than in a lot of other parts of the country (Hell, even of California) is stupid. I think LA is stupid but that has nothing to do with my view on people with a different skin color than me.

Twinkle likes LA so more power to her. Personally I think UCLA/USC is probably get best bet based on all she has said. Although I tend to agree with champagnepapi in regards to young single people getting married to a particular state/region.


its occasionally a sufficient condition, but not a necessary one. clearly I don't think you're racist Zuck. And there are a lot of reasons not to like LA, like the ones you mentioned -- traffic is horrible, and people are not that friendly. I've just met a lot of people in other parts of the country who, although they don't vocalize it day to day, had an implicit problem with heterogeneity, and who had remained in insular communities and predicated their distaste for california on the fact that you cannot go to LA and create a similarly insular, homogeneous population.

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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:56 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:Very little of what you wrote applies to me. I am socially liberal, love diversity and would love to live an area that is beautiful.


I'm glad to hear it. There are many cool places to live, like the twin cities for example, that have these traits to some degree and where you could be very happy.

bizzybone1313 wrote:Having said all of that, I am just extremely averse to spending 50-75% of my income towards COL and loan payments. I shit on NYC all the time for the exact same reasons. Living in one of the most expensive cities in the world means I would have to work 10+ more years pushing paper. You never get that time back.


there is also a strong correlation between high-cost index regions and high salaries. lafayette, indiana might have much cheaper rents than chicago or LA, but you will make a lot less money doing the same work most of the time.

also these are the most expensive cities in the world:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/0 ... de=2065975

note that none of them are LA or NYC, or even in the united states

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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby ph5354a » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:59 pm

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