Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where to go?

Cornell
35
22%
Northwestern
53
33%
Berkeley- who cares about debt?!
41
26%
UCLA
25
16%
USC
6
4%
 
Total votes: 160

BigZuck
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:40 pm

toothbrush wrote:Why has Berkley not given you any money? Or is it still pending?


Berk's gonna Berk

toothbrush
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby toothbrush » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:44 pm

BigZuck wrote:
toothbrush wrote:Why has Berkley not given you any money? Or is it still pending?


Berk's gonna Berk

doesn't make sense at all why they wouldn't give her anything when she has offers throughout the t14 for sizeable money

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helix23
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby helix23 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:46 pm

If Berkeley doesn't come through, my vote is for Cornell with NU in second. Your COA for Cornell is under 100k, which is great. But I would do research and make the admissions office put you in touch with Cornell alums in California to assuage your apprehension.

toothbrush
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby toothbrush » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:48 pm

helix23 wrote:If Berkeley doesn't come through, my vote is for Cornell with NU in second. Your COA for Cornell is under 100k, which is great. But I would do research and make the admissions office put you in touch with Cornell alums in California to assuage your apprehension.

good advice right here

BigZuck
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:02 pm

toothbrush wrote:
helix23 wrote:If Berkeley doesn't come through, my vote is for Cornell with NU in second. Your COA for Cornell is under 100k, which is great. But I would do research and make the admissions office put you in touch with Cornell alums in California to assuage your apprehension.

good advice right here


Don't disagree at all but I don't think this should really sway her. I asked a non-T14 school in the south to put me in contact with someone who got big law in CA, the guy I spoke to was top 5%, law review and IP. No crap he was able to crack CA and I doubt I will be any of those things.

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ph5354a
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby ph5354a » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:13 pm

BigZuck wrote:
toothbrush wrote:
helix23 wrote:If Berkeley doesn't come through, my vote is for Cornell with NU in second. Your COA for Cornell is under 100k, which is great. But I would do research and make the admissions office put you in touch with Cornell alums in California to assuage your apprehension.

good advice right here


Don't disagree at all but I don't think this should really sway her. I asked a non-T14 school in the south to put me in contact with someone who got big law in CA, the guy I spoke to was top 5%, law review and IP. No crap he was able to crack CA and I doubt I will be any of those things.


This is true, but I think Cornell has more than a few alums in CA big law. If they're helpful enough (and they should be), you should be able to communicate with a few different people so you get a variety of perspectives/backgrounds, not just their one star CA alum.

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:15 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:Kind of sucks, but I think you should actually pick Berkeley here.

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helix23
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby helix23 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:17 pm

BigZuck wrote:
toothbrush wrote:
helix23 wrote:If Berkeley doesn't come through, my vote is for Cornell with NU in second. Your COA for Cornell is under 100k, which is great. But I would do research and make the admissions office put you in touch with Cornell alums in California to assuage your apprehension.

good advice right here


Don't disagree at all but I don't think this should really sway her. I asked a non-T14 school in the south to put me in contact with someone who got big law in CA, the guy I spoke to was top 5%, law review and IP. No crap he was able to crack CA and I doubt I will be any of those things.


Basically what ph said. If the only alum they can put you in touch with is one superstar, then you should have doubts. I would hope they could put her in touch with more than one alum who wasn't an extraordinary student.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:19 pm

I'd take Cornell and not look back. My second choice would be NU.

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TrialLawyer16
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby TrialLawyer16 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:24 pm

Cornell easily.

No way is NU worth $40k (more like $50k after interest) more than Cornell if you want Cali BigLaw. No way. It's pretty shocking that NU is in the lead right now.

Also, you'd need approximately to be about top 30% at UCLA/USC to get Cali Biglaw and top 30% (probably even a good deal lower) at Cornell would do the same for you at a cheaper cost. Also, since Cornell (like NU) places 60%+ in BigLaw you have double the cushion to still make BigLaw elsewhere (besides NYC since you don't want that), but at $50k (after interest) cheaper than NU. If you get Cali BigLaw from Cornell you'd save a couple years of loan payments, and if you finish bottom third of the class at Cornell and strikeout at OCI that $50k you saved will be huge if you're making around $60-$70k a year. I think picking Cornell is perfectly hedging your bets.

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ph5354a
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby ph5354a » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:27 pm

Purely anecdotal: when I visited Cornell in the fall, I spoke to a few of the administrators. I never asked about CA, and had no reason to, but in general conversation, they acknowledged that a lot of their graduates plan to return to CA and Cornell seems to see that as their second market, behind NYC. One of them even said that they seemed to place better in CA then any other non-NYC market, such as Chicago, and they think this is in large part to the portion of students who have that as their goal, more of a selection bias than a deficiency on Cornell's part. The sense I got is that even though Cornell offers the most support for students going to NYC, they recognize the number of students hoping to go back to CA and do their best to support their goals as well.

Obviously look at the data primarily, but I thought this conversation was interesting. Since you're so opposed to NYC, Cornell still may not be the best place for you, but I think if you're committed to do the leg work, it won't hold you back from CA big law, and you'll save a lot of money in the meantime.

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untar614
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby untar614 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:32 pm

TrialLawyer16 wrote:Cornell easily.

No way is NU worth $40k (more like $50k after interest) more than Cornell if you want Cali BigLaw. No way. It's pretty shocking that NU is in the lead right now.

Also, you'd need approximately to be about top 30% at UCLA/USC to get Cali Biglaw and top 30% (probably even a good deal lower) at Cornell would do the same for you at a cheaper cost. Also, since Cornell (like NU) places 60%+ in BigLaw you have double the cushion to still make BigLaw elsewhere (besides NYC since you don't want that), but at $50k (after interest) cheaper than NU. If you get Cali BigLaw from Cornell you'd save a couple years of loan payments, and if you finish bottom third of the class at Cornell and strikeout at OCI that $50k you saved will be huge if you're making around $60-$70k a year. I think picking Cornell is perfectly hedging your bets.

I'm somewhat skeptical about the math re: COL numbers. Once its been narrowed down a bit, I'd do some searching to see what things really cost in that regard.

On a side note, the poll is looking increasingly unhelpful.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby twinkletoes16 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:28 pm

untar614 wrote:
TrialLawyer16 wrote:Cornell easily.

No way is NU worth $40k (more like $50k after interest) more than Cornell if you want Cali BigLaw. No way. It's pretty shocking that NU is in the lead right now.

Also, you'd need approximately to be about top 30% at UCLA/USC to get Cali Biglaw and top 30% (probably even a good deal lower) at Cornell would do the same for you at a cheaper cost. Also, since Cornell (like NU) places 60%+ in BigLaw you have double the cushion to still make BigLaw elsewhere (besides NYC since you don't want that), but at $50k (after interest) cheaper than NU. If you get Cali BigLaw from Cornell you'd save a couple years of loan payments, and if you finish bottom third of the class at Cornell and strikeout at OCI that $50k you saved will be huge if you're making around $60-$70k a year. I think picking Cornell is perfectly hedging your bets.

I'm somewhat skeptical about the math re: COL numbers. Once its been narrowed down a bit, I'd do some searching to see what things really cost in that regard.

On a side note, the poll is looking increasingly unhelpful.



Yeah, I'd LOVE for someone to review my COA numbers because I very well could be wrong on them and the difference between NU and Conell could be less.

And re: poll....yeah. Now you see why I came to you guys because I've been going back and forth over and over.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby NoodleyOne » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:32 pm

From the options on the table, if I were you I would probably shelve the "must be in CA" requirement, at least at the outset. For working in CA... it doesn't look like NU or Cornell travel well, but Boalt is just too pricey for my blood.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby twinkletoes16 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:34 pm

NoodleyOne wrote:From the options on the table, if I were you I would probably shelve the "must be in CA" requirement, at least at the outset. For working in CA... it doesn't look like NU or Cornell travel well, but Boalt is just too pricey for my blood.



Sounds like I'm fucked either way.


FWIW I would rather be in a big city than a rural-ish area.

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ph5354a
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby ph5354a » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:36 pm

Sorry if you've answered this already, I couldn't find it. Have you negotiated with Berkeley yet?

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby NoodleyOne » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:36 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
NoodleyOne wrote:From the options on the table, if I were you I would probably shelve the "must be in CA" requirement, at least at the outset. For working in CA... it doesn't look like NU or Cornell travel well, but Boalt is just too pricey for my blood.



Sounds like I'm fucked either way.


FWIW I would rather be in a big city than a rural-ish area.

I mean, you're going to be able to get a big city no prob at Cornell/NU. I doubt you'll end up doing Wills and Trusts in rural West Virginia.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby twinkletoes16 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:37 pm

NoodleyOne wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:
NoodleyOne wrote:From the options on the table, if I were you I would probably shelve the "must be in CA" requirement, at least at the outset. For working in CA... it doesn't look like NU or Cornell travel well, but Boalt is just too pricey for my blood.



Sounds like I'm fucked either way.


FWIW I would rather be in a big city than a rural-ish area.

I mean, you're going to be able to get a big city no prob at Cornell/NU. I doubt you'll end up doing Wills and Trusts in rural West Virginia.



I meant living in a big city during law school.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:40 pm

I really don't think the "top X%" measurements are nearly as relevant or accurate for Cornell and to a less degree NU than they are for UCLA/USC. It seems an odd comparison. I'll admit I could be speaking out of turn, but the logic doesn't follow for me.

At UCLA, everyone is fighting for CA jobs, so top of the class = best jobs. At Cornell, the top 30% of the class would probably go to east coast fed clerkships and V10 firm jobs/top PI in NYC. So how would being "top 30%" be relevant internally since your peers aren't fighting for the same positions? Is the active assumption here that CA firms will only take top 30% of the Cornell class into consideration? That seems rather arbitrary and I doubt that's the CA firms perspective. Forging ties and having a personal contact regardless of class rank from OOS is probably far more relevant

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wert3813
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby wert3813 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:43 pm

I think the Northwestern hedging as to do with Twinkle stating in no uncertain terms that NYC is not okay. This NU gives you two markets Chicago and CA.

I'm sorry can someone confirm that Berkeley COA is really 92K per year at sticker?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:44 pm

wert3813 wrote:I think the Northwestern hedging as to do with Twinkle stating in no uncertain terms that NYC is not okay. This NU gives you two markets Chicago and CA.

I'm sorry can someone confirm that Berkeley COA is really 92K per year at sticker?


they quote as $74,010 on their finaid website. With interest if you loan everything out, it might average to closer to $90K upon graduation

edit: I'm taking the $74K figure since twinkle is from CA. I think the $92K figure is only relevant as an out of state total debt at graduation averaged over 3 yrs figure, and even then its inflated to me

NanaP
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby NanaP » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:47 pm

Lacepiece23 wrote:Cornell, I go there and a bunch of our school has been very successful in getting back to Cali with ties. Its your cheapest option and gives you a safety net of having NYC is Cali doesn't work out. I'd say top 30% and your great for Cali, which is what you would need from the other Cali schools anyway for biglaw. Median or maybe a little below and you still have a job. I don't buy that Michigan would be that much better for your goals.



This

Big Dog
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby Big Dog » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:50 pm

Cornell...gives you a safety net of having NYC


CR fail. The OP has made it quite clear that she does not want NYC in any shape or form....

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bk1
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:51 pm

wert3813 wrote:I think the Northwestern hedging as to do with Twinkle stating in no uncertain terms that NYC is not okay. This NU gives you two markets Chicago and CA.

See, I think this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Chicago is not NYC. You can't (for the most part) just waltz in and pick up biglaw in Chicago. It is tough to get and it is likely tougher for someone who has no ties and demonstrates an interest being elsewhere (e.g. by working outside of Chicago for 1L summer, which OP is likely to do). I'm not sure NU really gives Chicago as a legitimate backup. At least, the marginal increase in prospects that allows for Chicago isn't worth 40k imo.

twinkletoes16 wrote:I meant living in a big city during law school.

Is this desire worth 40k to you?

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wert3813
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Re: Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley

Postby wert3813 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:54 pm

bk1 wrote:
wert3813 wrote:I think the Northwestern hedging as to do with Twinkle stating in no uncertain terms that NYC is not okay. This NU gives you two markets Chicago and CA.

See, I think this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Chicago is not NYC. You can't (for the most part) just waltz in and pick up biglaw in Chicago. It is tough to get and it is likely tougher for someone who has no ties and demonstrates an interest being elsewhere (e.g. by working outside of Chicago for 1L summer, which OP is likely to do). I'm not sure NU really gives Chicago as a legitimate backup. At least, the marginal increase in prospects that allows for Chicago isn't worth 40k imo.

twinkletoes16 wrote:I meant living in a big city during law school.

Is this desire worth 40k to you?


BK UCLA is out at that price in your mind (when compared to the other options of course?) What would UCLA have to cost to be the best option here?




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