Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley Forum

[WokeUpInACar]

Going to Cornell without any willingness to work in NYC just can't be a good decision. I vote Northwestern.

[twinkletoes16]

Going to Cornell without any willingness to work in NYC just can't be a good decision. I vote Northwestern.

That is my fear. Also maybe some QOL issues with Ithaca vs. Chicago. But again, neither are really where I want to be anyway, but for 3 years I guess Chi>Ithaca.

[SemperLegal]

Going to Cornell without any willingness to work in NYC just can't be a good decision. I vote Northwestern.

Its 6% in NY vs. 10% in NY. I don't think that that is a significant difference when you account for self-selection.

[WokeUpInACar]

Going to Cornell without any willingness to work in NYC just can't be a good decision. I vote Northwestern.

That is my fear. Also maybe some QOL issues with Ithaca vs. Chicago. But again, neither are really where I want to be anyway, but for 3 years I guess Chi>Ithaca.

Chicago is one of the best cities in the world. Ithaca is Ithaca. This is just me, but that alone would be worth 40k for three years of my life.

[WokeUpInACar]

I'm not sure if you've talked to Crumpetsandtea, but she's at NU right now and wants to go back to CA. I'm sure she could be very helpful.

[jbagelboy]

if it comes down to it, this might be one of those rare situations where you actually sit down with your parents and see what portion of the tuition load they would be able to handle. I know its not easy but if your parents are well off, there could be a "parental matching scholarship" that would minimize the risk of missing out on a CA biglaw job and longterm future. Of course, that element of the decision isn't something TLS can help with.

[sinfiery]

Going to Cornell without any willingness to work in NYC just can't be a good decision. I vote Northwestern.

[sublime]

..

[canon]

2L at Berkeley here. OP if your goal is CA biglaw you are going to have a hard time convincing recruiters you want to come back if you go to NU. That is regardless of whether you are a top student at NU/Cornell. Your time away from CA definitely hurts.

The question for you since Boalt will give you better chances at CA biglaw than all of those schools is whether that advantage is worth $100K + living through deplorable Chicago winters for three years.

If it were me in your situation I'd probably go to Berkeley and take my chances. My having something lined up this summer definitely skews the whole debt-averse thing though.

[stuckinthemiddle]

Going to Cornell without any willingness to work in NYC just can't be a good decision. I vote Northwestern.

I would practically never tell someone to turn away from that good money, especially since it's coming from Cornell (which is my favorite lower T14 by far) but I agree that if you're unwilling to work in NY after graduation, it just isn't smart to go to Cornell.

That being said, I don't know how smart it is to go to NU either, with those goals. NU is probably just as Chicago-centric as Cornell is NY-centric.

I still stand with UCLA/USC. I think that's the best compromise between price and CA placement. If you have to be top 30% at a non-Cali school to come back anyway, you have equivalent chances at CA biglaw from either of NU/Cornell and USC/UCLA.

[twinkletoes16]

if it comes down to it, this might be one of those rare situations where you actually sit down with your parents and see what portion of the tuition load they would be able to handle. I know its not easy but if your parents are well off, there could be a "parental matching scholarship" that would minimize the risk of missing out on a CA biglaw job and longterm future. Of course, that element of the decision isn't something TLS can help with.

As much as I would love for that to happen, cannot and will not have them do that. On my own with less than 10k in savings.

[untar614]

That's tough. I'd give NU he edge because I think it would be much easier to travel to Cal out of Chicago for not that much money, and its better qol, and also I think the COA they give assumes you like in streeterville, which you don't have to do. I personally would consider cornell, but that's only because I'd be cool with NY. UCLA would be good if you could guarantee top quarter of the class, but its hard to know how good any of us will be at this whole law school thing. Thats the gamble I think your looking at. Considering you have to take >90k in loans regardless, I think you need to be aiming for job prospects. Can't know for sure, but I'm guessing even if you perform poorly, with ties to CA you should still be able to get some law job in cali from a t14 (assuming not all the way at the bottom of the class) with some decent networking.

edit: also, send berk lots of hate mail

[Gunnar Stahl]

If you are hellbent on living in CA and nowhere else, then USC/UCLA. If you want to maximize your chances at getting biglaw anywhere, Northwestern/Cornell. Personally I'd pick NW and hope that you can get back to CA, and being ok with not living there, at least for a while. Otherwise, USC/UCLA.

[twinkletoes16]

Made a poll I guess?

[ph5354a]

I know nothing about CA big law. Is starting salary the same as NYC? I've talked to a few younger lawyers I know more broadly about relocating after law school (mostly NYC-> DC and vice versa) and the running theme is that as long as you have a good answer for "So why do you want to move to XX?" employers won't hold that alone against you. Since you already have connections there, it sounds like you'll have a good answer to that question. With that in mind, I think NU and Cornell are equally good choices. Since you are opposed to NYC, and I assume less opposed to Chicago, I would give the edge to NU so your fall back plan isn't quite as abhorrent.

You might also look into how people lateral into CA firms from other markets. If you strike out at CA big law, you may end up in Chicago/NYC big law for the first few years, and it'd be good to know what it will take for you to eventually make it back to CA.

Or, take the debt and go to Berkeley. You can't take it with you, right?

[BigZuck]

If you are hellbent on living in CA and nowhere else, then USC/UCLA. If you want to maximize your chances at getting biglaw anywhere, Northwestern/Cornell. Personally I'd pick NW and hope that you can get back to CA, and being ok with not living there, at least for a while. Otherwise, USC/UCLA.

This is exactly what I think.

Berkeley is just way too damned expensive, and I am fearful that you are going to go take that gamble. Please don't. You might strike out. You might just absolutely positively hate it and have your quality of life suffer. You may get fired/pushed out before you can make too much of a dent in that debt load. 300K is an incredible amount of money, especially for a 20 something to gamble with.

Your scholarships to Cornell/NU are incredible and both give you a great shot at big law somewhere so I would choose one of those. If you just really have to be in CA no matter what then hedge your bets and go to one of USC/UCLA. Just please do it with the full realization that your 30 or 35 or 40 year old self might have regret directed toward your 25 year old self for privileging CA above better job prospects.

I say all this as someone who is a probably going to pass up lower T14s at a good price for a solid regional for cheap.

[annieT]

.

[Tekrul]

If you develop a "westward seeking theme" in your résumé, there will be no problem moving into that market from either NU or Cornell. Blanket email mid/small firms, PI offices, govt offices and develop as early as 1L a narrative that has you coming back to Cali and wanting to work in Cali.

That said, your fallback from Cornell is NYC. As you are so opposed to it, I guess the safe answer is NU. However, I voted Cornell since its cheaper. And it's not like you have to make eic law review at either of these schools to get what you want. So either is a solid bet.

In many cases, moving out to California from another of the firm's offices is as simple as telling your boss to tell the other office you want in. When they have space/money for you, you'll go. In rarer cases you'll have to send in your app and compete with others, but the possibility still exists. This is if you can tolerate a year or two of work in the fallback location.

[letsjustsee]

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[Rahviveh]

Kind of sucks, but I think you should actually pick Berkeley here.

[BigZuck]

Two things: NU is significantly more expensive than Cornell here. 40K is a lot of money any way you slice it IMO.

Also, people who are saying "just do Chicago bro" as a backup think that Chicago is easy enough to crack for a medianish student without Midwest ties? I got the same sense as Twinkle, that it would be just as hard to get Chicago as CA for her. I think her only real fallback market is NYC, which she says she doesn't want at all.

[twenty]

If you would rather not go to law school than go to NYC/Chicago Biglaw, UCLA is the only real choice here.

But again, that means you have to be okay with a 33% chance or so of being an unemployed UCLA grad with 100k of debt. That's roughly $1,150 in payments per month for the next ten years.

[052220151]

Not to complicate matters, but to add another option...

You could do 1L at Cornell or NU and transfer to Berkeley for 2L, assuming you have the 1st year grades for it. You'll lose out on scholarship money after the transfer, but not have paid out to Berkeley for all 3 years.

120 troll

[twinkletoes16]

Oops, forgot to add Michigan with 75k. Not sure if that's a contender or not but it is tied with Berkeley and I loved it at ASW. Also all the people I met there had no problem getting back to CA....



I dunno.

[toothbrush]

Why has Berkley not given you any money? Or is it still pending?