Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

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rcp412
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Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby rcp412 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:08 pm

I'm from New Jersey but I went to college pretty close to home (in Pennsylvania) and felt like going further away for law school, though I don't want to feel like I will be locked into any specific area. I've gone to open houses at Loyola and Denver in the past few weeks and loved both, as well as the cities of Chicago and Denver. I'm coming straight out of college (political science major) and am not passionate about any particular area of law at this time. I have scholarships from both schools but calculated that Loyola will cost about $10K more per year. Aside from that, it's basically a coin flip at this point, and Loyola's seat deposit is due today.

Any advice or opinions are welcome.

rad lulz
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:09 pm

Answer these questions from the forum sticky

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

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nickb285
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby nickb285 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:10 pm

rcp412 wrote:I don't want to feel like I will be locked into any specific area


Then don't go to either of these schools.

Really, you shouldn't go to either of these schools anyway, unless you're dead set on the area and can go for free. Also:

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

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untar614
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby untar614 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:11 pm

Don't go to denver, it's employment rates suck (<50% of grads got full-time, long term legal jobs). What's the COA at Loyola? Based on how you phrased it, I'm guessing too much. Also, would you plan on staying in Chicago?

rcp412
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby rcp412 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:12 pm

The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.

$43K/year for Loyola, $33K per year for Denver.

-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings

Mostly loans, no savings. Some help from family.

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)

From northern New Jersey (25 miles west of NYC), I have no idea where I want to work and am open to working both in my home area or either Chicago or Denver, as well as other east coast cities like Boston, Philly, and DC. I have family ties to Chicago and no ties to Denver.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers

159/3.6

-How many times you have taken the LSAT

Twice

rcp412
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby rcp412 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:15 pm

nickb285 wrote:
rcp412 wrote:I don't want to feel like I will be locked into any specific area


Then don't go to either of these schools.

Really, you shouldn't go to either of these schools anyway, unless you're dead set on the area and can go for free.


Why? If I got into a place like Georgetown, I'd agree. The only higher ranked school I am into is Tulane, which is far more costly. Only other options are lower ranked schools like Syracuse, Rutgers, and Catholic. I have no opposition to working in either Denver or Chicago but also don't want to feel like I will be stuck in either place.

rcp412
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby rcp412 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:17 pm

untar614 wrote:Don't go to denver, it's employment rates suck (<50% of grads got full-time, long term legal jobs). What's the COA at Loyola? Based on how you phrased it, I'm guessing too much. Also, would you plan on staying in Chicago?


COA for me at Loyola is $43K/year with a $21K scholarship. I would have no opposition to staying in Chicago, and I know about 80% of Loyola grads do, at least in the short term.
Last edited by rcp412 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:17 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rcp412
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby rcp412 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:19 pm

rad lulz wrote:
rcp412 wrote:
nickb285 wrote:
rcp412 wrote:I don't want to feel like I will be locked into any specific area


Then don't go to either of these schools.

Really, you shouldn't go to either of these schools anyway, unless you're dead set on the area and can go for free.


Why? If I got into a place like Georgetown, I'd agree. The only higher ranked school I am into is Tulane, which is far more costly. Only other options are lower ranked schools like Syracuse, Rutgers, and Catholic. I have no opposition to working in either Denver or Chicago but also don't want to feel like I will be stuck in either place.

Those degrees aren't portable dude

Also DU has shitty employment stats

Loyola Chi to too expensive

I'd retake


If I thought I could retake and get a 170, I wouldn't be having this discussion. But that's not an option.

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nickb285
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby nickb285 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:19 pm

Study your friggin' ass off for the LSAT and retake it. Going to either of those schools, especially for that much money, is a waste of your GPA, your time, and your future. If you are very lucky you will get a job either in Denver or Chicago. You will not get a job anywhere else. Type some numbers into this: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml

Loyola: $43k/year = $138k total with interest = about $1600/month after taxes to pay it back. That means about $26,000 of your pre-tax salary will go to student loans.
Denver: $33k/year = $106k total with interest = about $1250/month after taxes to pay it back. That means about $20,000 of your pre-tax salary will go to student loans.

Your most likely outcomes at either of these schools are:

1. Unemployment. Both schools only give you about a 50% shot of getting a job as a lawyer within nine months of graduating.
2. Underemployment. You'll work part-time, or in a job that doesn't require a JD.
3. Employment as a lawyer making $40-60k/year. Look at the numbers above and tell me how that sounds.

Do not go to either of these schools. Retake the LSAT. Go somewhere else. That is the only, and I mean the only, intelligent option for you--well, that or not going to law school.

rad lulz
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:24 pm

rcp412 wrote:
If I thought I could retake and get a 170, I wouldn't be having this discussion. But that's not an option.

Then don't go

Paul Campos
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby Paul Campos » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:28 pm

You're signing up for $160K or $120K in non-dischargeable debt without any real idea of why you're going to law school or what options you're likely to have after you graduate.

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romothesavior
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:50 pm

OP, these are both terrible options, and you come off as very naive about this whole law school thing. This is your career and financial future you're talking about here. You owe it to yourself to think about this critically and rationally. You're looking at a ton of debt for schools that are all the way across the country in saturated markets that you have no ties to, and you have no idea about the terrible job prospects that await you. Do some research. Here's a good place to start:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=denver
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=loyola-chicago

Retake or don't go. At the very least, you should be going to Rutgers in-state with a scholarship. Neither of the options you're considering are worth this kind of debt.

framboozer
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby framboozer » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:15 am

So why not Rutgers then?

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hephaestus
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby hephaestus » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:46 am

Paul Campos wrote:You're signing up for $160K or $120K in non-dischargeable debt without any real idea of why you're going to law school or what options you're likely to have after you graduate.

Exactly this. OP, you say you don't want to be locked into one region. Yet, you are deciding between two extremely regional schools with bad employment prospects. Even worse, you don't seem to know what you actually want to do or what being a lawyer entails.
Here's what you do: get a job for a year or two (if you want it to be law related, paralegal type jobs are extremely easy to come by). This job should be wherever you eventually want to practice, since law is a geographically limited profession and you don't have the choice of simply practicing "wherever" when you graduate. Employers are going to look for an actual reason why you want to live there. During this year, retake the LSAT. Committing financial suicide by going to either school is completely unnecessary and likely life ruining.

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sanjola
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby sanjola » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:27 am

framboozer wrote:So why not Rutgers then?


+1

PRgradBYU
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby PRgradBYU » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:45 pm

rcp412 wrote:If I thought I could retake and get a 170, I wouldn't be having this discussion. But that's not an option.


Your 3.6 GPA isn't bad at all... you'll have much better options if you can at least score in the mid-160s. Retake, brah. The LSAT is a learnable test.

20141023
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby 20141023 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:16 pm

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby NoodleyOne » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:21 pm

rcp412 wrote:
If I thought I could retake and get a 170, I wouldn't be having this discussion. But that's not an option.

You're right. Taking a few months and spending a few hundred bucks on registering for the test and prep materials is out of the question. Instead, six figures of non-dischargeable debt to schools with awful employment numbers is a MUCH better option.

Retake, dude. We have a forum devoted to helping people with the LSAT, with LSAT experts helping people for free, and skilled amateurs helping out as well. There are guides, links to resources, and study groups to help people succeed. FWIW, I have a 3.55 GPA, and I'm looking at 6 figure scholarships at NYU and UVA. A few hundred bucks and one year can save you tens of thousands of dollars and end up profiting you hundreds of thousands to millions over the course of your career. You will not find a better investment.

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Tekrul
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Re: Deciding today between Loyola (Chicago) and Denver

Postby Tekrul » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:32 pm

You should invest some more time, money, and confidence in yourself at this juncture. Buy good study materials, set aside study hours, and get your score up.

Saying you cannot achieve 170 is entirely the wrong mentality. IDC if that comes from some allegedly sage, liberally educated, 21st century hipster-monk styling of "knowing yourself well". You're far too young for that, coming straight out of college. Set the bar high for yourself and then strive for it.

I generally want to be positive about telling people to retake, which is the best choice for you here, but it seems like law school is not something you've given much thought to. What are your reasons for going? Who brought the idea up? Do you know what life is like after law school?

You should be wary that you're paying ~150,000 to buy a ticket to a band you've never heard play.




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