Top Law Schools

Cdanesi wrote:I already took a year off to intern and work and I really don't want to take another year off. Hofstra upped my scholarship so I'm considering. What's the feelings toward Rutgers Newark and Seton Hall? Brooklyn? The same?

Take another year off. You have nothing to lose and a lot to gain. These are all bad options.

Your future if you attend either of these schools:



You'd be really surprised (stunned really) if you spent a few years on the NYC doc review "circuit." There are people from all kinds of good schools: NYU, Emory, Fordham, Columbia, Penn, etc. But mostly it's Brooklyn/St Johns/Cardozo/Seton Hall/Rutgers kids- I'd say about 70% are from those schools.

Kids from top, top schools usually make lousy coders. For example, I sat next to a guy on an O'Melveny project who I named "Dr. Smell-Good." He wore those Kenneth Cole dress boots that were popular about 8 years ago, but didn't wear socks with them. He'd take them off throughout the day and his feet smelled horrible. He was an NYU grad and got canned from a big firm in the downturn. He was literally boiling with rage at the doc review "lifestyle"- he didn't care for being berated all day and talked to like a 5 year old (which is how doc review just "is." For example, like 20 times a day there are "annoucements" and such and everyone has to move their chairs in a circle and "listen up." It's kinda like prison, but in a funny way. Once you've been on a few gigs you get used to the game and don't really notice anymore how downright sad and degrading this shit is.

Poor ole Dr. Smellgood wouldn't have any part of it. When he told me he went to NYU and I screamed out "you went to NYU are are working HERE? With us losers?" he said "don't say it so loud" and "i'm not a loser, I used to make six digits." I tried to help him get on the beam, but this guy was grinding his molars down to nubs he was so angry at all the typical BS, like having to sign out to use the bathroom and not having soda at your desk, etc. Also on Fridays the temp agency usually brings in free pizza, but one coder has to act as "pizza monitor" because things usually get out of hand with the free grub and all. There are rules like only one slice at a time and no "seconds" until everyone has had a slice. Also no "hoarding" slices for your friends who are out smoking or asleep at their desks, etc. Dr. Smellgood would bitch and moan that he felt it was like kindergarten, etc etc.

I got kinda scared he was gonna bring an AK-47 to work and take us all out in a rage. Luckily that case settled one day at like 10 am and we all got sent home- they even paid us until 12 noon, which is rare.

Another dude from Yale was called "fade out" because he would just kind of babble in this soft voice about random shit and look around to see if anyone was listening. He was big on JFK assasination trivia and crackpot theories and such- he would usually get canned pretty quick because he was just too far out to be a somewhat productive coder.

There was a really funny Asian chick from I think Cornell who I worked with at Lexolution, which is an agency with its own doc review workspace on 40th st. She brought like half her apartment to work: she had a coffemaker, all kinds of plates/mugs/cups, real silverware, little desk gadgets etc. Mind you that we sit at Bingo-hall type tables all packed one on top of each other, so your neighbor is like a cell mate.

So one day she shows up with this little electric space-heater to use under her desk. She plugs it into a power strip and BAM!- blows out the electric for the whole room! It was beyond awesome. The super for the building was stuck in NJ so we got paid to sit there all day in the dark and do basically nothing.

californiauser wrote:Your future if you attend either of these schools:



You'd be really surprised (stunned really) if you spent a few years on the NYC doc review "circuit." There are people from all kinds of good schools: NYU, Emory, Fordham, Columbia, Penn, etc. But mostly it's Brooklyn/St Johns/Cardozo/Seton Hall/Rutgers kids- I'd say about 70% are from those schools.

Kids from top, top schools usually make lousy coders. For example, I sat next to a guy on an O'Melveny project who I named "Dr. Smell-Good." He wore those Kenneth Cole dress boots that were popular about 8 years ago, but didn't wear socks with them. He'd take them off throughout the day and his feet smelled horrible. He was an NYU grad and got canned from a big firm in the downturn. He was literally boiling with rage at the doc review "lifestyle"- he didn't care for being berated all day and talked to like a 5 year old (which is how doc review just "is." For example, like 20 times a day there are "annoucements" and such and everyone has to move their chairs in a circle and "listen up." It's kinda like prison, but in a funny way. Once you've been on a few gigs you get used to the game and don't really notice anymore how downright sad and degrading this shit is.

Poor ole Dr. Smellgood wouldn't have any part of it. When he told me he went to NYU and I screamed out "you went to NYU are are working HERE? With us losers?" he said "don't say it so loud" and "i'm not a loser, I used to make six digits." I tried to help him get on the beam, but this guy was grinding his molars down to nubs he was so angry at all the typical BS, like having to sign out to use the bathroom and not having soda at your desk, etc. Also on Fridays the temp agency usually brings in free pizza, but one coder has to act as "pizza monitor" because things usually get out of hand with the free grub and all. There are rules like only one slice at a time and no "seconds" until everyone has had a slice. Also no "hoarding" slices for your friends who are out smoking or asleep at their desks, etc. Dr. Smellgood would bitch and moan that he felt it was like kindergarten, etc etc.

I got kinda scared he was gonna bring an AK-47 to work and take us all out in a rage. Luckily that case settled one day at like 10 am and we all got sent home- they even paid us until 12 noon, which is rare.

Another dude from Yale was called "fade out" because he would just kind of babble in this soft voice about random shit and look around to see if anyone was listening. He was big on JFK assasination trivia and crackpot theories and such- he would usually get canned pretty quick because he was just too far out to be a somewhat productive coder.

There was a really funny Asian chick from I think Cornell who I worked with at Lexolution, which is an agency with its own doc review workspace on 40th st. She brought like half her apartment to work: she had a coffemaker, all kinds of plates/mugs/cups, real silverware, little desk gadgets etc. Mind you that we sit at Bingo-hall type tables all packed one on top of each other, so your neighbor is like a cell mate.

So one day she shows up with this little electric space-heater to use under her desk. She plugs it into a power strip and BAM!- blows out the electric for the whole room! It was beyond awesome. The super for the building was stuck in NJ so we got paid to sit there all day in the dark and do basically nothing.

Kind of confused on what you mean here? Lol

Consider options other than law school

Cdanesi wrote:

californiauser wrote:areyouinsane

Kind of confused on what you mean here? Lol

He means don't go to a shitty law school because you'll get soul-crushing jobs that pay nothing and force you to work next to psychopaths.

OP, do NOT take the advice you get on this forum to heart. The most active, douchebag TLS posters number around 300. Probably less, so less than 300 individuals out of well over 10,000 law students graduating per year. Consider that many "regulars" have been on here over 2 or 3 years, we can safely say out of 30,000 law grads we have 300 here giving advice.

Take the advice they give with a gain of salt. These trolls on TLS cannot get jobs, because they are inept losers as a result of years spent on forums instead of networking. Before this forum, it was a Magic or Dragonball Z forum for them. They had no friends before law school, made no new friends in law school, and instead spent their years in law school hanging around in the off-topic lounge instead of networking in real life. They were book smart, took a standardized test, and earned a J.D., yet they wonder why they cannot get jobs? What type of social skills do you think someone with 15,000+ posts on a message board has? Guys in their 30s who have found their calling moderating message boards and posting to them all day.

They didn't have much going for them before law school, and still have nothing going for them now that they have graduated. Considering that many of these "regulars" are in their 30s and still find time to be "regulars" on a message board should speak for itself.

They attempt to make themselves feel better by bashing people for their desire to attend lower ranked law schools. This is because they went to lower ranked law schools, cannot get jobs, and blame the law school. These are the same people who snorted and laughed when someone miscalculated the hitpoints on Pikachu's fireball. Yet they think they should be attorneys? OP: Only you can make the right call as to what is right for you and your future.

Ben Franklin wrote:OP, do NOT take the advice you get on this forum to heart. The most active, douchebag TLS posters number around 300. Probably less, so less than 300 individuals out of well over 10,000 law students graduating per year. Consider that many "regulars" have been on here over 2 or 3 years, we can safely say out of 30,000 law grads we have 300 here giving advice.

Take the advice they give with a gain of salt. These trolls on TLS cannot get jobs, because they are inept losers as a result of years spent on forums instead of networking. Before this forum, it was a Magic or Dragonball Z forum for them. They had no friends before law school, made no new friends in law school, and instead spent their years in law school hanging around in the off-topic lounge instead of networking in real life. They were book smart, took a standardized test, and earned a J.D., yet they wonder why they cannot get jobs? What type of social skills do you think someone with 15,000+ posts on a message board has? Guys in their 30s who have found their calling moderating message boards and posting to them all day.

They didn't have much going for them before law school, and still have nothing going for them now that they have graduated. Considering that many of these "regulars" are in their 30s and still find time to be "regulars" on a message board should speak for itself.

They attempt to make themselves feel better by bashing people for their desire to attend lower ranked law schools. This is because they went to lower ranked law schools, cannot get jobs, and blame the law school. These are the same people who snorted and laughed when someone miscalculated the hitpoints on Pikachu's fireball. Yet they think they should be attorneys? OP: Only you can make the right call as to what is right for you and your future.

Actually, it's thundershock.

Ben Franklin wrote:OP, do NOT take the advice you get on this forum to heart. The most active, douchebag TLS posters number around 300. Probably less, so less than 300 individuals out of well over 10,000 law students graduating per year. Consider that many "regulars" have been on here over 2 or 3 years, we can safely say out of 30,000 law grads we have 300 here giving advice.

There are about 45k grads per year competing for about 20k jobs.

Ben Franklin wrote:OP, do NOT take the advice you get on this forum to heart.

No. But please do think about it seriously. Think over why you want to go to law school, where you see yourself in four years, and how you intend to repay your loans. You aren't guaranteed to fail. I know people who have gone to worse schools, have been at the very top of their class, and have scored low paying PI jobs. They make under 50K a year, and are waiting for that 10 year point when the government will forgive their loans. They are happy, I guess, but these are people who knew exactly what their life would look like when they came out. They knew they weren't going to get a firm job and might, very likely, not get any job.

If you are fine with being unemployed in 4 years, go to law school. If you are fine with working for under 50K a year go to law school (not saying you will actually land a job, but you might). Otherwise, retake or don't go to law school. There is nothing wrong with spending 3 years buying a really expensive lottery ticket, so long as you are aware of it.

Ben Franklin wrote:OP, do NOT take the advice you get on this forum to heart. The most active, douchebag TLS posters number around 300. Probably less, so less than 300 individuals out of well over 10,000 law students graduating per year. Consider that many "regulars" have been on here over 2 or 3 years, we can safely say out of 30,000 law grads we have 300 here giving advice.

Take the advice they give with a gain of salt. These trolls on TLS cannot get jobs, because they are inept losers as a result of years spent on forums instead of networking. Before this forum, it was a Magic or Dragonball Z forum for them. They had no friends before law school, made no new friends in law school, and instead spent their years in law school hanging around in the off-topic lounge instead of networking in real life. They were book smart, took a standardized test, and earned a J.D., yet they wonder why they cannot get jobs? What type of social skills do you think someone with 15,000+ posts on a message board has? Guys in their 30s who have found their calling moderating message boards and posting to them all day.

They didn't have much going for them before law school, and still have nothing going for them now that they have graduated. Considering that many of these "regulars" are in their 30s and still find time to be "regulars" on a message board should speak for itself.

They attempt to make themselves feel better by bashing people for their desire to attend lower ranked law schools. This is because they went to lower ranked law schools, cannot get jobs, and blame the law school. These are the same people who snorted and laughed when someone miscalculated the hitpoints on Pikachu's fireball. Yet they think they should be attorneys? OP: Only you can make the right call as to what is right for you and your future.

I get it. Trolling is a lot of fun. But when people are weighing serious and expensive life decisions, it has the very possible consequence of ruining someone's life. So kindly shut the fuck up.

Ben Franklin wrote:OP, do NOT take the advice you get on this forum to heart. The most active, douchebag TLS posters number around 300. Probably less, so less than 300 individuals out of well over 10,000 law students graduating per year. Consider that many "regulars" have been on here over 2 or 3 years, we can safely say out of 30,000 law grads we have 300 here giving advice.

Take the advice they give with a gain of salt. These trolls on TLS cannot get jobs, because they are inept losers as a result of years spent on forums instead of networking. Before this forum, it was a Magic or Dragonball Z forum for them. They had no friends before law school, made no new friends in law school, and instead spent their years in law school hanging around in the off-topic lounge instead of networking in real life. They were book smart, took a standardized test, and earned a J.D., yet they wonder why they cannot get jobs? What type of social skills do you think someone with 15,000+ posts on a message board has? Guys in their 30s who have found their calling moderating message boards and posting to them all day.

They didn't have much going for them before law school, and still have nothing going for them now that they have graduated. Considering that many of these "regulars" are in their 30s and still find time to be "regulars" on a message board should speak for itself.

They attempt to make themselves feel better by bashing people for their desire to attend lower ranked law schools. This is because they went to lower ranked law schools, cannot get jobs, and blame the law school. These are the same people who snorted and laughed when someone miscalculated the hitpoints on Pikachu's fireball. Yet they think they should be attorneys?

OP: Only you can make the right call as to what is right for you and your future.

And the right call here is to NOT blow 100k on less than a coin flip's chance at becoming an attorney that doesn't make enough to pay the debt back without falling below the poverty line.

togepi wrote:

Ben Franklin wrote:They attempt to make themselves feel better by bashing people for their desire to attend lower ranked law schools. This is because they went to lower ranked law schools, cannot get jobs, and blame the law school. These are the same people who snorted and laughed when someone miscalculated the hitpoints on Pikachu's fireball. Yet they think they should be attorneys? OP: Only you can make the right call as to what is right for you and your future.

Actually, it's thundershock.

Yeah this paragraph pissed me off so much. What kind of Pikachu knows fireball? And abilities cause damage, not hitpoints. Have you even played an RPG before? This is just ignorant man. I hope you put more research into your legal briefs than this weak ass shit.

Ben Franklin wrote:They were book smart, took a standardized test, and earned a J.D., yet they wonder why they cannot get jobs?

Next thing I know you'll be telling me how I can't get laid and have a miserable social life, right? I mean... I must if I have lots of posts on TLS right?

Anyways, enjoy your timeout.

Cdanesi wrote: I disagree. I've met a lot of Hofstra alumni who are doing fantastic. I think it has more to do with what you can offer. But thank you for the insight.

So it seems. But what do you offer?

--ImageRemoved--

Cdanesi wrote:

alex.feuerman wrote:There are massive amounts of firms who will just LAUGH in your face in you are fron NYLS.
If you're from Hofstra, they might just make a sad face and say "Awww...."
So...Hofstra?...

I disagree. I've met a lot of Hofstra alumni who are doing fantastic. I think it has more to do with what you can offer. But thank you for the insight.

I was called a troll for saying that I met some partners saying Cardozo is a good school. See all those negative responses to you? You aren't allow to say anything good to any non-HYS law schools.

And when I advising against going to certain law schools, I was called a troll again. Their logic is that since you said good things about this Cardozo piece of trash, so you aren't allow to say bad things about that law school which supposed to be better than Cardozo. And no, I don't go to Cardozo.

froglee wrote:

Cdanesi wrote:

alex.feuerman wrote:There are massive amounts of firms who will just LAUGH in your face in you are fron NYLS.
If you're from Hofstra, they might just make a sad face and say "Awww...."
So...Hofstra?...

I disagree. I've met a lot of Hofstra alumni who are doing fantastic. I think it has more to do with what you can offer. But thank you for the insight.

I was called a troll for saying that I met some partners saying Cardozo is a good school. See all those negative responses to you? You aren't allow to say anything good to any non-HYS law schools.

And when I advising against going to a certain law school. I was called a troll again. Their logic is that since you said good things about this Cardozo piece of trash, so you aren't allow to say bad things about that law school which supposed to be better than Cardozo. And no, I don't go to Cardozo.

Actually, we tend to suggest 0Ls don't take on 6 figures of debt for a coin-flips chance at being a lawyer, not to mention servicing said six figures of debt. And you're allowed to say good things about all of the good t-13 schools (lol GeorgeTTTown).

froglee wrote:
I was called a troll for saying that I met some partners saying Cardozo is a good school.

You were called a troll because this is worthless information. The reason we have an oversupply problem is because too many 0Ls are relying on anecdotes and reputation without looking at the actual employment stats.

Have you taken the LSAT yet? Do you know why it's flawed to conclude that Cardozo is a good school just because some partners say so?

froglee wrote:I was called a troll for saying that I met some partners saying Cardozo is a good school. See all those negative responses to you? You aren't allow to say anything good to any non-HYS law schools.

And when I advising against going to certain law schools, I was called a troll again. Their logic is that since you said good things about this Cardozo piece of trash, so you aren't allow to say bad things about that law school which supposed to be better than Cardozo. And no, I don't go to Cardozo.

This is a complete bastardization of what happened.

You were heaping praise on Cardozo and their job placement. Then the very next day, you were bashing Brooklyn Law pretty hard and saying that their job placement sucks. When I pointed out that the job statistics at Dozo and BLS are virtually identical, you slinked away without a word:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5#p6680695

In your time on TLS, you have pumped up Pepperdine and Cardozo as rock solid investments, while ripping on IUB, Brooklyn, Fordham, and Texas. You are free to say good things or bad things about any school in the country, no one is censoring you. But when you're just flat out dead wrong, you can expect to get called on it, and when you say things like "Go to Cardozo, partners told me they hire from there," you can expect to be mocked for it. We have hard data now, champ.

Yukos wrote:

togepi wrote:

Ben Franklin wrote:They attempt to make themselves feel better by bashing people for their desire to attend lower ranked law schools. This is because they went to lower ranked law schools, cannot get jobs, and blame the law school. These are the same people who snorted and laughed when someone miscalculated the hitpoints on Pikachu's fireball. Yet they think they should be attorneys? OP: Only you can make the right call as to what is right for you and your future.

Actually, it's thundershock.

Yeah this paragraph pissed me off so much. What kind of Pikachu knows fireball? And abilities cause damage, not hitpoints. Have you even played an RPG before? This is just ignorant man. I hope you put more research into your legal briefs than this weak ass shit.

180

froglee wrote:

Cdanesi wrote:

alex.feuerman wrote:There are massive amounts of firms who will just LAUGH in your face in you are fron NYLS.
If you're from Hofstra, they might just make a sad face and say "Awww...."
So...Hofstra?...

I disagree. I've met a lot of Hofstra alumni who are doing fantastic. I think it has more to do with what you can offer. But thank you for the insight.

I was called a troll for saying that I met some partners saying Cardozo is a good school. See all those negative responses to you? You aren't allow to say anything good to any non-HYS law schools.

And when I advising against going to certain law schools, I was called a troll again. Their logic is that since you said good things about this Cardozo piece of trash, so you aren't allow to say bad things about that law school which supposed to be better than Cardozo. And no, I don't go to Cardozo.

Saying that Cardozo is a good bet because the partners you talked to (how many can that really be? at the very most I am guessing 10 or so out of the 1,000+ in NYC alone) is using the same logic that you deride in this post:

froglee wrote:Not to flame here. Brooklyn's overall job statistics is very bad. And judging whether the school is good or bad based on the employment outcome of one or a few top students is a very bad idea.

A few partners, even 20 partners, who say Cardozo is a "good school" (BTW no partner is going to say a school is bad no matter how objectively bad it is) does not tell you anymore about whether you have a good shot at a job out of Cardozo than a few grads from Brooklyn getting big law tells you about the likelihood of getting a job out of Brooklyn.

Brooklyn and Cardozo are about as similar as two schools can be in terms of employment prospects regardless of what the partners you spoke with said. Cardozo may have a better reputation (that has not been my experience but putting that aside) but, at the end of the day, it is not translating into better job prospects, so who cares?

OP - You're taking a lot of shit here and you may not understand why, but here's some info to hopefully help clear things up -

1. Law schools, outside of the T14 (and even to some extent within the T14), place regionally. If you want to work in [insert random state here], then a degree from [insert law school on the other side of the country from aforementioned state here] won't be of much use to you. There is a lot of statistical evidence backing this up.

2. Correct me if i'm wrong, but based on your options, it seems fair to say that you want to work in New York.

3. New York, from what I can gather, is one of the legal job markets most hardly hit by the recession, meaning that jobs are even more scarce in New York than in other parts of the country.

4. The NYC Metro area is home to Columbia, NYU, Fordham, Cardozo, Brooklyn, St. John's, CUNY Law, NYLS, Hofstra, Rutgers-Newark, Seton Hall, Touro, and Pace. That's a lot of law schools and a lot of law graduates in a very small space, all of whom you will be competing with for jobs.

5. NYC is also the targeted market for many graduates from many schools not in NYC. So in addition to competing with schools in your region, you will also be competing for jobs with students from schools like Yale, Stanford, Harvard, UChicago, Penn, UVA, Berkeley...........Cornell, Georgetown, Texas.............(etc. etc. etc., I hope you see where I'm going with this).

With all of that in mind, I hope you realize that getting some of the most desirable jobs in NYC from either school will be difficult. Getting any desirable job in NYC will be difficult. Getting any job in NYC will be less than a 50-50 shot, and I hope the above helps explain why.

That said, it seems like your COA at either wouldn't be absolutely through the roof, but that doesn't make them ideal options. If you absolutely must, I'd say Hofstra over NYLS. Your best option, however, by far, would be to retake the LSAT, and go to a better school for less money.

fking market saturation its ruining our lives. Maybe we should start post bacc pre med next semester

Yukos wrote:

togepi wrote:

Ben Franklin wrote:They attempt to make themselves feel better by bashing people for their desire to attend lower ranked law schools. This is because they went to lower ranked law schools, cannot get jobs, and blame the law school. These are the same people who snorted and laughed when someone miscalculated the hitpoints on Pikachu's fireball. Yet they think they should be attorneys? OP: Only you can make the right call as to what is right for you and your future.

Actually, it's thundershock.

Yeah this paragraph pissed me off so much. What kind of Pikachu knows fireball? And abilities cause damage, not hitpoints. Have you even played an RPG before? This is just ignorant man. I hope you put more research into your legal briefs than this weak ass shit.

Seriously man, I want a Pikachu that Knows fireball

che3055 wrote:OP - You're taking a lot of shit here and you may not understand why, but here's some info to hopefully help clear things up -

1. Law schools, outside of the T14 (and even to some extent within the T14), place regionally. If you want to work in [insert random state here], then a degree from [insert law school on the other side of the country from aforementioned state here] won't be of much use to you. There is a lot of statistical evidence backing this up.

2. Correct me if i'm wrong, but based on your options, it seems fair to say that you want to work in New York.

3. New York, from what I can gather, is one of the legal job markets most hardly hit by the recession, meaning that jobs are even more scarce in New York than in other parts of the country. It's probably the best place to be looking for a legal job.

4. The NYC Metro area is home to Columbia, NYU, Fordham, Cardozo, Brooklyn, St. John's, CUNY Law, NYLS, Hofstra, Rutgers-Newark, Seton Hall, Touro, and Pace. That's a lot of law schools and a lot of law graduates in a very small space, all of whom you will be competing with for jobs.

5. NYC is also the targeted market for many graduates from many schools not in NYC. So in addition to competing with schools in your region, you will also be competing for jobs with students from schools like Yale, Stanford, Harvard, UChicago, Penn, UVA, Berkeley...........Cornell, Georgetown, Texas.............(etc. etc. etc., I hope you see where I'm going with this).

With all of that in mind, I hope you realize that getting some of the most desirable jobs in NYC from either school will be difficult. Getting any desirable job in NYC will be difficult. Getting any job in NYC will be less than a 50-50 shot, and I hope the above helps explain why.

That said, it seems like your COA at either wouldn't be absolutely through the roof, but that doesn't make them ideal options. If you absolutely must, I'd say Hofstra over NYLS. Your best option, however, by far, would be to retake the LSAT, and go to a better school for less money.

FTFY