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Hope you guys can help me. I got into Berkeley (one of my top choices) with 3.75/165 + strong softs and was really, really happy and was even ready to go at sticker, but i'm beginning to have second thoughts. I liked ASW but wasn't completely enamored and not sure why. Even though Berkeley gave me generous need based aid (21K this upcoming year), I'm still debt averse and don't know if I'm ready for law school yet after talking to people at ASW (I'm only 22 even though I did take 2 years off to work at a small law firm).

Some things about me: I'm still unsure about what I want to do specifically, but I want to have a firm job for a few years before transitioning into PI. I originally wanted to go school on the east coast for a few years and come back to SF also. No particular reason why, I just wanted to be able to experience it once because I've always liked NYC.

The LSAT has always been a struggle for me. My first time taking the test, I bombed it with a 157. This was after studying for 4 months straight (every day for like 8-10 hours a day). I took a prep course and hired a private tutor. I decided to take some time away from the test, and started working. After a few months, I began studying again every day after work (2-4 hours a day for 7 months alone and with another private tutor). Was PT anywhere between 160 -172. I had no idea why it was so unpredictable and my tutor couldn't figure it out either. Then i took a month off of work and studied 10 hrs a day again and ended up with 165 on the actual test. Not great. I've probably taken 60 PT and the ones I have left are really old and I'm not sure if I could actually improve after retaking a third time. Really don't want to spend any more of my life on this test if possible - it's just not going to click for me anytime soon or if at all.

As of now, I plan to attend Berkeley but will retake the LSAT to see if I could improve. Would the 157 keep me out of HYS? My GPA isn't good enough for those schools anyway I think, and I don't know if retaking for money at Columbia/NYU and maybe Penn (the only schools I would go to instead of Berkeley) would be worth putting off law school for another year. Should I just be thankful I slipped into Berkeley with my numbers and go?

retake

This is going to be one of the first times I've ever advised someone with a good GPA and a LSAT <170 NOT to retake. If you legitimately put in that much prep and never beat 172 on a PT, I don't know what more you could really do to improve the score. You'd probably have to break 172 to get into HYS anyway, and if you get that same aid at Berkeley every year, your debt load would be high, but not completely unmanageable for a school of that caliber. Be 100% certain you want to practice law first, but Berkeley at that price can be a decent decision IMO.

If you get 21k each year from Berk and given how you've already studied, your options within the T14 may not get better.

If you crack a 171, you could get money from MVP but it won't be significantly more than 60k.

DCN might be a bit more generous (90-120kish) though but that's still dependent upon you scoring at least a 171 and possibly higher.


HLS would take a 173+ and very good softs. Yes, the 157 will definitely hurt you there so you really need to be exceptional to overcome it.

YS ain't gonna happen.


Berk with 60k and circumstances isn't bad. It still leaves you with 220kish in debt at graduation though.

You may want to consider applying for a strong regional T1 and go for a full ride.

lampshade0520 wrote:Hope you guys can help me. I got into Berkeley (one of my top choices) with 3.75/165 and was really, really happy and was even ready to go at sticker, but i'm beginning to have second thoughts. I liked ASW but wasn't completely enamored and not sure why. Even though Berkeley gave me generous need based aid (21K this upcoming year), I'm still debt averse and don't know if I'm ready for law school yet after talking to people at ASW (I'm only 22 even though I did take 2 years off to work at a small law firm).

Some things about me: I'm still unsure about what I want to do specifically, but I want to have a firm job for a few years before transitioning into PI. I originally wanted to go school on the east coast for a few years and come back to SF also. No particular reason why, I just wanted to be able to experience it once because I've always liked NYC.

The LSAT has always been a struggle for me. My first time taking the test, I bombed it with a 157. This was after studying for 4 months straight (every day for like 8-10 hours a day). I took a prep course and hired a private tutor. I decided to take some time away from the test, and started working. After a few months, I began studying again every day after work (2-4 hours a day for 7 months alone and with another private tutor). Was PT anywhere between 160 -172. I had no idea why it was so unpredictable and my tutor couldn't figure it out either. Then i took a month off of work and studied 10 hrs a day again and ended up with 165 on the actual test. Not great. I've probably taken 60 PT and the ones I have left are really old and I'm not sure if I could actually improve after retaking a third time. Really don't want to spend any more of my life on this test if possible - it's just not going to click for me anytime soon or if at all.

As of now, I plan to attend Berkeley but will retake the LSAT to see if I could improve. Would the 157 keep me out of HYS? My GPA isn't good enough for those schools anyway I think, and I don't know if retaking for money at Columbia/NYU and maybe Penn (the only schools I would go to instead of Berkeley) would be worth putting off law school for another year. Should I just be thankful I slipped into Berkeley with my numbers and go?

Couldn't you put in your deposit for Berkeley and take the June LSAT? You can assess your options after the retake. At worst, you can still go to Berkeley. If it were me and I didn't score high enough this June, I'd take Berkeley.

ManoftheHour wrote:

lampshade0520 wrote:Hope you guys can help me. I got into Berkeley (one of my top choices) with 3.75/165 and was really, really happy and was even ready to go at sticker, but i'm beginning to have second thoughts. I liked ASW but wasn't completely enamored and not sure why. Even though Berkeley gave me generous need based aid (21K this upcoming year), I'm still debt averse and don't know if I'm ready for law school yet after talking to people at ASW (I'm only 22 even though I did take 2 years off to work at a small law firm).

Some things about me: I'm still unsure about what I want to do specifically, but I want to have a firm job for a few years before transitioning into PI. I originally wanted to go school on the east coast for a few years and come back to SF also. No particular reason why, I just wanted to be able to experience it once because I've always liked NYC.

The LSAT has always been a struggle for me. My first time taking the test, I bombed it with a 157. This was after studying for 4 months straight (every day for like 8-10 hours a day). I took a prep course and hired a private tutor. I decided to take some time away from the test, and started working. After a few months, I began studying again every day after work (2-4 hours a day for 7 months alone and with another private tutor). Was PT anywhere between 160 -172. I had no idea why it was so unpredictable and my tutor couldn't figure it out either. Then i took a month off of work and studied 10 hrs a day again and ended up with 165 on the actual test. Not great. I've probably taken 60 PT and the ones I have left are really old and I'm not sure if I could actually improve after retaking a third time. Really don't want to spend any more of my life on this test if possible - it's just not going to click for me anytime soon or if at all.

As of now, I plan to attend Berkeley but will retake the LSAT to see if I could improve. Would the 157 keep me out of HYS? My GPA isn't good enough for those schools anyway I think, and I don't know if retaking for money at Columbia/NYU and maybe Penn (the only schools I would go to instead of Berkeley) would be worth putting off law school for another year. Should I just be thankful I slipped into Berkeley with my numbers and go?

Couldn't you put in your deposit for Berkeley and take the June LSAT? You can assess your options after the retake. At worst, you can still go to Berkeley. If it were me and I didn't score high enough this June, I'd take Berkeley.

That's what I said I was planning to do but I guess the point is that I'd be wasting time studying for a test that I most likely won't improve on enough to make a big enough difference in outcomes. Best scenario is that I get money from Columbia/NYU but not much more than 60K right (which is what I would get at Berk if my finaid is the same for the subsequent two years)? And I would have to take ANOTHER year off before law school. Doesn't seem worth it. HYS doesn't seem viable.

lampshade0520 wrote:

ManoftheHour wrote:

lampshade0520 wrote:Hope you guys can help me. I got into Berkeley (one of my top choices) with 3.75/165 and was really, really happy and was even ready to go at sticker, but i'm beginning to have second thoughts. I liked ASW but wasn't completely enamored and not sure why. Even though Berkeley gave me generous need based aid (21K this upcoming year), I'm still debt averse and don't know if I'm ready for law school yet after talking to people at ASW (I'm only 22 even though I did take 2 years off to work at a small law firm).

Some things about me: I'm still unsure about what I want to do specifically, but I want to have a firm job for a few years before transitioning into PI. I originally wanted to go school on the east coast for a few years and come back to SF also. No particular reason why, I just wanted to be able to experience it once because I've always liked NYC.

The LSAT has always been a struggle for me. My first time taking the test, I bombed it with a 157. This was after studying for 4 months straight (every day for like 8-10 hours a day). I took a prep course and hired a private tutor. I decided to take some time away from the test, and started working. After a few months, I began studying again every day after work (2-4 hours a day for 7 months alone and with another private tutor). Was PT anywhere between 160 -172. I had no idea why it was so unpredictable and my tutor couldn't figure it out either. Then i took a month off of work and studied 10 hrs a day again and ended up with 165 on the actual test. Not great. I've probably taken 60 PT and the ones I have left are really old and I'm not sure if I could actually improve after retaking a third time. Really don't want to spend any more of my life on this test if possible - it's just not going to click for me anytime soon or if at all.

As of now, I plan to attend Berkeley but will retake the LSAT to see if I could improve. Would the 157 keep me out of HYS? My GPA isn't good enough for those schools anyway I think, and I don't know if retaking for money at Columbia/NYU and maybe Penn (the only schools I would go to instead of Berkeley) would be worth putting off law school for another year. Should I just be thankful I slipped into Berkeley with my numbers and go?

Couldn't you put in your deposit for Berkeley and take the June LSAT? You can assess your options after the retake. At worst, you can still go to Berkeley. If it were me and I didn't score high enough this June, I'd take Berkeley.

That's what I said I was planning to do but I guess the point is that I'd be wasting time studying for a test that I most likely won't improve on enough to make a big enough difference in outcomes. Best scenario is that I get money from Columbia/NYU but not much more than 60K right (which is what I would get at Berk if my finaid is the same for the subsequent two years)? And I would have to take ANOTHER year off before law school. Doesn't seem worth it. HYS doesn't seem viable.

Do this anyway. Worst thing that could happen is you end up at berk anyway. Even if you up a few points B might throw you more money. If you break 171 CCN are on the table with a gpa that's get you into Berkeley.

What the fuck are people talking about? You got $21,000/year? Just go to Boalt. You're in a great position and it's not going to get any better for you.

Edit—sorry, I guess it's just Dr. Dre being stupid. I wouldn't even bother taking the June test but no downside, I suppose. But yeah do not do anything dumb like withdraw and reapply next year. You're already way overshooting your numbers.

Boalt bro.

Clearlynotstefan wrote:

lampshade0520 wrote:

ManoftheHour wrote:

lampshade0520 wrote:Hope you guys can help me. I got into Berkeley (one of my top choices) with 3.75/165 and was really, really happy and was even ready to go at sticker, but i'm beginning to have second thoughts. I liked ASW but wasn't completely enamored and not sure why. Even though Berkeley gave me generous need based aid (21K this upcoming year), I'm still debt averse and don't know if I'm ready for law school yet after talking to people at ASW (I'm only 22 even though I did take 2 years off to work at a small law firm).

Some things about me: I'm still unsure about what I want to do specifically, but I want to have a firm job for a few years before transitioning into PI. I originally wanted to go school on the east coast for a few years and come back to SF also. No particular reason why, I just wanted to be able to experience it once because I've always liked NYC.

The LSAT has always been a struggle for me. My first time taking the test, I bombed it with a 157. This was after studying for 4 months straight (every day for like 8-10 hours a day). I took a prep course and hired a private tutor. I decided to take some time away from the test, and started working. After a few months, I began studying again every day after work (2-4 hours a day for 7 months alone and with another private tutor). Was PT anywhere between 160 -172. I had no idea why it was so unpredictable and my tutor couldn't figure it out either. Then i took a month off of work and studied 10 hrs a day again and ended up with 165 on the actual test. Not great. I've probably taken 60 PT and the ones I have left are really old and I'm not sure if I could actually improve after retaking a third time. Really don't want to spend any more of my life on this test if possible - it's just not going to click for me anytime soon or if at all.

As of now, I plan to attend Berkeley but will retake the LSAT to see if I could improve. Would the 157 keep me out of HYS? My GPA isn't good enough for those schools anyway I think, and I don't know if retaking for money at Columbia/NYU and maybe Penn (the only schools I would go to instead of Berkeley) would be worth putting off law school for another year. Should I just be thankful I slipped into Berkeley with my numbers and go?

Couldn't you put in your deposit for Berkeley and take the June LSAT? You can assess your options after the retake. At worst, you can still go to Berkeley. If it were me and I didn't score high enough this June, I'd take Berkeley.

That's what I said I was planning to do but I guess the point is that I'd be wasting time studying for a test that I most likely won't improve on enough to make a big enough difference in outcomes. Best scenario is that I get money from Columbia/NYU but not much more than 60K right (which is what I would get at Berk if my finaid is the same for the subsequent two years)? And I would have to take ANOTHER year off before law school. Doesn't seem worth it. HYS doesn't seem viable.

Do this anyway. Worst thing that could happen is you end up at berk anyway. Even if you up a few points B might throw you more money. If you break 171 CCN are on the table with a gpa that's get you into Berkeley.

does berk care about lsat scores? people with GREAT numbers got 0 money from berkeley. i emailed finaid/admis office asking if a higher june score would raise my chances at some merit aid and didn't get a response...lol

lampshade0520 wrote: does berk care about lsat scores? people with GREAT numbers got 0 money from berkeley. i emailed finaid/admis office asking if a higher june score would raise my chances at some merit aid and didn't get a response...lol

They gave me 21k/year because of my financial situation but refused to match $1 from UVA's 120k offer that is based on the merit of the applicant

just saying

Defer for a year. If you don't know if you want to go or what you want to do, then do not go.

I had a 170/3.84 and I would have KILLED for that money at Boalt. Take it and don't look back.

Also, don't bother retaking - it sounds like you're lucky to have gotten a 165 given the extreme variability in your PTs. Sounds like you hit the middle of your range - most people do worse with the pressure on test day. Regardless the point is moot given Berk's merit aid practices; I have friends who went to Boalt with scores as high as 176 who didn't get financial aid - the school is notoriously stingy - you're in a fantastic position with the money they've offered you.

bruinfan10 wrote:I had a 170/3.84 and I would have KILLED for that money at Boalt. Take it and don't look back.

Also, don't bother retaking - it sounds like you're lucky to have gotten a 165 given the extreme variability in your PTs. Sounds like you hit the middle of your range - most people do worse with the pressure on test day. Regardless the point is moot given Berk's merit aid practices; I have friends who went to Boalt with scores as high as 176 who didn't get financial aid - the school is notoriously stingy - you're in a fantastic position with the money they've offered you.

Agreed. Go and and don't look back. If u don't want to practice law that's one thing, but if you do, it doesn't get much better than that. Top school with money in San Fran. Are you kidding? That's a bad ass school in a bad ass city and so long as you put in the work, you'll land a great job at a bad ass firm.

i know for sure i want to do law, i was just unsure if i should go yet given how young i am and have only been working for 2 years. thank you all! you reaffirmed my decision. i'll definitely be at boalt next year.

lampshade0520 wrote:i know for sure i want to do law, i was just unsure if i should go yet given how young i am and have only been working for 2 years. thank you all! you reaffirmed my decision. i'll definitely be at boalt next year.

Gl buddy! And congrats.

lampshade0520 wrote:i know for sure i want to do law, i was just unsure if i should go yet given how young i am and have only been working for 2 years. thank you all! you reaffirmed my decision. i'll definitely be at boalt next year.

Woooooooo

lampshade0520 wrote:i know for sure i want to do law, i was just unsure if i should go yet given how young i am and have only been working for 2 years. thank you all! you reaffirmed my decision. i'll definitely be at boalt next year.

I'm jealous hombre. I miss the Bay. Congratulations!

lampshade0520 wrote:i know for sure i want to do law, i was just unsure if i should go yet given how young i am and have only been working for 2 years. thank you all! you reaffirmed my decision. i'll definitely be at boalt next year.

Given your circumstances, this was the correct decision.

With the low gpa and as much effort as you have put into the LSAT, you might as well just go to Boalt if you are hell bent on going to law school.

Not retaking June is a mistake IMO. I'm not saying don't go to Cal, just that not trying to raise the LSAT for potential better options when there is no downside is a mistake.

lampshade0520 wrote:i know for sure i want to do law, i was just unsure if i should go yet given how young i am and have only been working for 2 years. thank you all! you reaffirmed my decision. i'll definitely be at boalt next year.

Very good call here dude. $21k/yr is incredible at Boalt. Very few people with far superior numbers get anywhere near that. Boalt doesn't seem to be much in the business of buying high numbers. Even if you retake and hit 171+, I doubt you'd get an offer better than that.

Also, all these COA estimates for Boalt are way fucking off. These "calculators" have gotten completely out of hand.

- In-state tuition at Boalt is $48,111/yr. $48,111-$21,000 = $27,111/yr in tuition that you'd pay.
- Boalt essentially froze tuition this year. Only a few dollars more for 2012-2013 than for 2011-2012.
- If you get roommates, don't eat out constantly, use free public transportation, and shop at costco/trader joes/safeway, you can live on the cheap in Berkeley. I currently live in San Francisco for around $1300/mo so $1200-$1500/mo is easy, depending on how Spartan you really are. I don't know WTF they are smoking when doing those COL estimates. Oh wait, yea I do........

- Tuition for all 3 years in your case shouldn't exceed $82k-$86k total, even if B ends up raising tuition.
- ($1500/mo x 36) = $54k COL for 3 yrs. You could definitely do this for much cheaper, especially if you make it a point to hit up all the free food/drinks to be had at the constant string of events, but here's a baseline.
- This puts you at $155kish debt including interest for all three years, assuming you have absolutely 0$ in savings and 0$ in income. However, if you include your 2L SA position, which pays over $30k for a summer, this number gets much lower.

Basically, that's not bad at all for pretty much guaranteed big law. From what I heard from the current Boalt students at ASW (and I talked to a LOT of them, over lots of beer), everyone who planned on gunning for Big Law from the get go had multiple offers. The PI kids had it a bit rougher.

WTF is this guaranteed big law stuff?

Also, just because 21K at Boalt is a great outcome for Boalt doesn't mean that the OP can't get something significantly better from another school.

BigZuck wrote:WTF is this guaranteed big law stuff?

Also, just because 21K at Boalt is a great outcome for Boalt doesn't mean that the OP can't get something significantly better from another school.

Significantly better? Like what, a Hamilton or Ruby? 21K at Boalt is probably about as well as the OP will do unless he/she can get her score above a 175, breh.

sinfiery wrote:If you get 21k each year from Berk and given how you've already studied, your options within the T14 may not get better.

If you crack a 171, you could get money from MVP but it won't be significantly more than 60k.

DCN might be a bit more generous (90-120kish) though but that's still dependent upon you scoring at least a 171 and possibly higher.


HLS would take a 173+ and very good softs. Yes, the 157 will definitely hurt you there so you really need to be exceptional to overcome it.

YS ain't gonna happen.


Berk with 60k and circumstances isn't bad. It still leaves you with 220kish in debt at graduation though.

You may want to consider applying for a strong regional T1 and go for a full ride.

Are you fucking serious? This was a solid point being made until the awful advice in the last sentence. Attending Berkeley is most definitely worth paying $27,111 more a year than a "strong regional" when your goal is to work in Big Law for a few years. Also, Boalt is VERY strong in it's "region." It's also strong in the rest of the country. Finally, his LSAT score isn't high enough to get him a full ride to any school worth attending over B.