IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

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acvangorp
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IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby acvangorp » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:38 pm

My debate is between IU-Indy's McKinney with a $22,500 scholarship over 3 years against Valpo with a full-ride all three years.

I had gone through all my other choices and had narrowed it down to IU, until I received my offer today from Valpo. I know IU is rated leaps and bounds higher than Valpo (with employment statistics supporting that) and I'm looking into International Law, which looks better from IU. However, there's the full-ride. Also, I'm from the NW Indiana area so I would probably move back home to attend Valpo making it even cheaper.

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby WokeUpInACar » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:43 pm

Neither of these schools is able to place even half of their graduates into any job requiring a JD. The thought of getting an international law job from one of them is laughable. Retake the LSAT or don't go to law school.

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Dmini7
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby Dmini7 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:44 pm

acvangorp wrote:My debate is between IU-Indy's McKinney with a $22,500 scholarship over 3 years against Valpo with a full-ride all three years.

I had gone through all my other choices and had narrowed it down to IU, until I received my offer today from Valpo. I know IU is rated leaps and bounds higher than Valpo (with employment statistics supporting that) and I'm looking into International Law, which looks better from IU. However, there's the full-ride. Also, I'm from the NW Indiana area so I would probably move back home to attend Valpo making it even cheaper.



If international law is your goal neither of these will really help you in your goal. Honestly, I get so much spam from valpo its hard for me to consider it a real school and I would never attend. Since both schools are in the same market, I would try to use valpo as leverage for Iu, but I doubt it'll help much.

PRgradBYU
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby PRgradBYU » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:59 pm

WokeUpInACar wrote:Retake the LSAT or don't go to law school.


This. That full-ride scholarship might look tempting at first glance, but it's not worth three years of your life to attend a school that gives you a 39.5% chance of becoming a lawyer.

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hephaestus
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby hephaestus » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:03 pm

PRgradBYU wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:Retake the LSAT or don't go to law school.


This. That full-ride scholarship might look tempting at first glance, but it's not worth three years of your life to attend a school that gives you a 39.5% chance of becoming a lawyer.

Exactly.

acvangorp
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby acvangorp » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:24 pm

Dmini7 wrote:
acvangorp wrote:My debate is between IU-Indy's McKinney with a $22,500 scholarship over 3 years against Valpo with a full-ride all three years.

I had gone through all my other choices and had narrowed it down to IU, until I received my offer today from Valpo. I know IU is rated leaps and bounds higher than Valpo (with employment statistics supporting that) and I'm looking into International Law, which looks better from IU. However, there's the full-ride. Also, I'm from the NW Indiana area so I would probably move back home to attend Valpo making it even cheaper.



If international law is your goal neither of these will really help you in your goal. Honestly, I get so much spam from valpo its hard for me to consider it a real school and I would never attend. Since both schools are in the same market, I would try to use valpo as leverage for Iu, but I doubt it'll help much.


Those are all great points. I am considering the leverage idea. I'm not exactly sure how best to go about getting McKinney to up the ante though.

Ti Malice
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:32 pm

There is no such thing as international law from either of those schools. Odds are against you landing a FT/LT legal job of any kind from either school, much less a job that even people at YHS are unlikely to land.

What are the stips on your Valpo scholarship? (Just curious. Even without stips, though, it's still not worth attending.)

acvangorp
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby acvangorp » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:40 pm

Ti Malice wrote:There is no such thing as international law from either of those schools. Odds are against you landing a FT/LT legal job of any kind from either school, much less a job that even people at YHS are unlikely to land.

What are the stips on your Valpo scholarship? (Just curious. Even without stips, though, it's still not worth attending.)


Good question, both scholarships (Valpo and McKinney) are renewable as long as I keep a 2.5 GPA. Considering some other schools' offers, this seemed pretty attainable in both cases.

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DukeofCambridge
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby DukeofCambridge » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:52 pm

Can you find three graduates from classes in the past 5 years, practicing the kind of "international law" you'd like to get into?

acvangorp
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby acvangorp » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:57 pm

DukeofCambridge wrote:Can you find three graduates from classes in the past 5 years, practicing the kind of "international law" you'd like to get into?


Honestly, I'm not really sure what I'd like to get into. I studied Japanese and Chinese in undergrad and just figured it could actually be useful in international law. I don't have my heart set on any specific type of law yet.

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paranoia4ya
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby paranoia4ya » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:27 pm

Indiana tech has a global law/leadership concentration. The website says that concentrations are like majors at their law school, and it makes their school unique. Did you by any chance apply here? Its unaccredited, but I would say your chances at scoring a job in another country are on par with the other schools.

Assuming you didn't, I would consider IUM.

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90convoy
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby 90convoy » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:33 pm

Also from NW Indiana here!

Honestly if I were you I'd retake. How much did you study for the lsat?

ALSO:what type of urm are you?

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Dmini7
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby Dmini7 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:38 pm

90convoy wrote:Also from NW Indiana here!

Honestly if I were you I'd retake. How much did you study for the lsat?

ALSO:what type of urm are you?



Wait you are a URM too? If you are AA ignore everything I have said and immediately retake.

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jrthor10
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby jrthor10 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:42 pm

paranoia4ya wrote:Indiana tech has a global law/leadership concentration. The website says that concentrations are like majors at their law school, and it makes their school unique. Did you by any chance apply here? Its unaccredited, but I would say your chances at scoring a job in another country are on par with the other schools.

Assuming you didn't, I would consider IUM.


Dear GOD I hope you're kidding me.

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cinephile
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby cinephile » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:14 pm

What exactly do you think international law entails?

timbs4339
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:18 pm

paranoia4ya wrote:Indiana tech has a global law/leadership concentration. The website says that concentrations are like majors at their law school, and it makes their school unique. Did you by any chance apply here? Its unaccredited, but I would say your chances at scoring a job in another country are on par with the other schools.


I don't know how you managed to pack so much fail into a two line post, but by god you did. I almost vomited.

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Grazzhoppa
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby Grazzhoppa » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:27 pm

Did Mike.ramien convince you to apply to the TOP REGIONAL LAW SCHOOL that is Valparaiso? Please please please please don't go to Valpo. I know a Valpo law dropout. It's as bad as everyone here is saying. If you are a URM just study for the LSAT and go to a T14 for free instead. This is absolutely a real option for you and you DO NOT need to go to law school next year no matter who is telling you to do so.

Ti Malice
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:35 pm

paranoia4ya wrote:Indiana tech has a global law/leadership concentration. The website says that concentrations are like majors at their law school, and it makes their school unique. Did you by any chance apply here? Its unaccredited, but I would say your chances at scoring a job in another country are on par with the other schools.

Assuming you didn't, I would consider IUM.

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paranoia4ya
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby paranoia4ya » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:30 pm

In case you misunderstood me, you will regret going to either of these schools for international law. I have talked to people at IUM, they all desire biglaw or the equivalent. Although the people are friendly to one another, they are quietly thinking about how easy it would be to throw their friends dreams under the bus to get half decent summer employment. Don't get me wrong, you can get a legal job from IUM, but your aspirations do not match what these schools offer their students

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:33 pm

cinephile wrote:What exactly do you think international law entails?

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DukeofCambridge
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby DukeofCambridge » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:39 pm

acvangorp wrote:
DukeofCambridge wrote: I studied Japanese and Chinese in undergrad and just figured it could actually be useful in international law. I don't have my heart set on any specific type of law yet.


So then why do you want to go to law school?

Having summered at a V10 in Honkers, here's what language fluency will get you as an entry level legal employee:

a) if you're fluent, and I mean natively fluent, and you have a top law degree, you are catnip to these firms. My classmates and I were spread out over the 4 biglaw firms in the same building.

b) if you're not natively fluent, then you may have a chance, but only if you have top grades at a great school.

Please note: neither Valpo or IU are considered "great" by any stretch of the imagination, whatsoever. If you sent your resume in with these schools on it, the HR ladies(the younger ones who tend to be US BA's) will throw it in the trash before it gets to anyone who has a legal education. You'd have a better chance getting a summer internship at one of these firms if you went to Hong Kong University.

Now, as for "international law." What does that mean for you? What do you think it means? Lawyers are only qualified to practice in specific jurisdictions so that when I was wondering what it meant to sell a pty ltd type company, I had to look up australian company law. Likewise, when I was asked to research a sale and purchase agreement, I used EDGAR to look up one drafted by S & C and Cravath to .... New York law which I used as a model.

If we're truly talking about law that spans jurisdictions(ie, not the vast majority of corporate law), you're looking at the interface between national and international legal systems, things like trade law(anti-dumping, countervailing duty etc), and EU law(for whom, the only real practice that law firms have is in competition in brussels). Do you want to work in Belgium? (note, even if you wanted to, neither of these schools will get you close to Belgium except maybe as an asylum-seeker)

I would think very, very, very carefully about proceeding with this whole law school thing unless you have a clear idea what you will do(and even then not go).

If anyone tells you that you will be practicing "international law"(as I've described it above) with a degree from either of these schools, they are lying. full stop. Try to see if you can get something in writing telling you the kind of "international law" you'll be practicing if you attend either of these schools.

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DukeofCambridge
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby DukeofCambridge » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:50 pm

paranoia4ya wrote:Indiana tech has a global law/leadership concentration. The website says that concentrations are like majors at their law school, and it makes their school unique. Did you by any chance apply here? Its unaccredited, but I would say your chances at scoring a job in another country are on par with the other schools.

Assuming you didn't, I would consider IUM.



Oh. Dear. God. I completely missed this on the first go-around. Are you actually thinking of attending Indiana-Tech?

Law is a prestige-obsessed profession. What do you think legal employers will think of a non-ABA accredited law "school" that is best known in the area for HVAC technicians and truck driving certificates? This is the school where they claim they'll give you "practice" experience by providing free legal services to their employees. In other words, you pay the school to provide your labor to them for free - how great for the law "faculty". Have you seen the "faculty" they have by the way?

andré douglas pond cummings (mr I dont capitalize my name because I want to be as cool as SpearIt at SLU) with such incredible legal authorship as: "REVERSING FIELD: EXAMINING COMMERCIALIZATION, LABOR, GENDER AND RACE IN 21ST CENTURY SPORTS LAW, Editor (West Virginia University Press) (with Anne Marie Lofaso)
HIP HOP AND THE LAW: THE WRITINGS THAT FORMED THE MOVEMENT, Editor (forthcoming 2012) (with Donald Tibbs)"


Paranoia, I would say you are providing very, very, very, wrong(and financially and professionally disastrous) advice when you say the following: "Its unaccredited, but I would say your chances at scoring a job in another country are on par with the other schools."


He's been made the ASSOCIATE DEAN. --LinkRemoved--

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:38 pm

DukeofCambridge wrote:
paranoia4ya wrote:Indiana tech has a global law/leadership concentration. The website says that concentrations are like majors at their law school, and it makes their school unique. Did you by any chance apply here? Its unaccredited, but I would say your chances at scoring a job in another country are on par with the other schools.

Assuming you didn't, I would consider IUM.



Oh. Dear. God. I completely missed this on the first go-around. Are you actually thinking of attending Indiana-Tech?

Law is a prestige-obsessed profession. What do you think legal employers will think of a non-ABA accredited law "school" that is best known in the area for HVAC technicians and truck driving certificates? This is the school where they claim they'll give you "practice" experience by providing free legal services to their employees. In other words, you pay the school to provide your labor to them for free - how great for the law "faculty". Have you seen the "faculty" they have by the way?

andré douglas pond cummings (mr I dont capitalize my name because I want to be as cool as SpearIt at SLU) with such incredible legal authorship as: "REVERSING FIELD: EXAMINING COMMERCIALIZATION, LABOR, GENDER AND RACE IN 21ST CENTURY SPORTS LAW, Editor (West Virginia University Press) (with Anne Marie Lofaso)
HIP HOP AND THE LAW: THE WRITINGS THAT FORMED THE MOVEMENT, Editor (forthcoming 2012) (with Donald Tibbs)"


Paranoia, I would say you are providing very, very, very, wrong(and financially and professionally disastrous) advice when you say the following: "Its unaccredited, but I would say your chances at scoring a job in another country are on par with the other schools."


He's been made the ASSOCIATE DEAN. --LinkRemoved--

you just got trolled hard bro

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paranoia4ya
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby paranoia4ya » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:30 am

ugh, look at my second post.
btw on par with the other schools he is considering is true, assuming that the chances are practically zero from all of them. I was just teasing him/her is all... Forget international law from these schools, you wont be working anywhere that you can't reach on a full tank of gas. In all likelihood, the most prestige you could attain from attending valpo is seeing your firms name on a old advertisement at a dirty bus stop. Indiana tech grads will either be on par with this or more likely, will end up competing with the top 1-2% of their class for jobs that are in firms of more than 9 people, and trying to transfer to valpo . I am not sure if the post above me made this clear, but large firms will think you are fluidly stupid in two languages if you went to valpo and the others with the intent of doing international law, or something on par with this level of employment.

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justonemoregame
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Re: IU (McKinney) $$ vs. Valpo (Full-ride)

Postby justonemoregame » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:12 pm

There truly are a lot of people who think they're going to practice international law. Still. Stepping outside the TLS bubble and onto campus isn't going to be pretty is it? OP, get a job or move back home and go to Valpo, but drop out if no LR/2L summer job/prospects look generally shitty.




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