Harvard vs Yale

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
edamame
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Harvard vs Yale

Postby edamame » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:11 pm

Hi, everyone. I'm currently struggling with this decision and wanted to ask for your input.

I'm interested in DOJ work after my 1L summer, wish to work with a D.C. firm during my 2L summer, and wish to have a federal clerkship after graduation.

I am very risk averse and do not want to strike out. That being said, I want to continue doing firm work after my clerkship and then perhaps transition to the government.

HLS downside: Huge, easy to get lost in the shuffle. I'll have to work really hard to get noticed before I can get professor recommendations. Conversation with OCS seemed like D.C. was a tough market to crack -- they told me I should network and rely on my ties. Also, Harvard Law Review is tougher to get than Yale Law Journal is.

YLS downside: New Haven -- haven't visited, but haven't heard good things. I'm K-JD from a state school (finance major), and I'm scared that there will be so many people that are much better at law, speaking with professors, getting ahead than I am. Also, I don't fit the typical YLS student mold. I'm interested in litigation work and intend to thrive off it if I can find a practice area that truly engages me.

Let me know what you think. I like COAP -- it's more generous (inherently) and has better provisions for children and child care. COAP and LIPP can be somewhat similar in how they treat spouses, depending on individual circumstances. (Yes, I have looked into these things on the behalf of Mr. Edamame aka my boyfriend).

Excited to hear your thoughts!
Last edited by edamame on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ph14
Posts: 3224
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby ph14 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:18 pm

edamame wrote:Hi, everyone. I'm currently struggling with this decision and wanted to ask for your input.

I'm interested in DOJ work after my 1L summer, wish to work with a D.C. firm during my 2L summer, and wish to have a federal clerkship after graduation.

I am very risk averse and do not want to strike out. That being said, I want to continue doing firm work after my clerkship and then perhaps transition to the government.

HLS downside: Huge, easy to get lost in the shuffle. I'll have to work really hard to get noticed before I can get professor recommendations. Conversation with OCS seemed like D.C. was a tough market to crack -- they told me I should network and rely on my ties. Also, Harvard Law Review is tougher to get than Yale Law Journal is.

YLS downside: New Haven -- haven't visited, but haven't heard good things. I'm K-JD from a state school (finance major), and I'm scared that there will be so many people that are much better at law, speaking with professors, getting ahead than I am. Also, I don't fit the typical YLS student mold. I'm interested in corporate work and intend to thrive off it if I can find a practice area that truly engages me.

Let me know what you think. I like COAP -- it's more generous (inherently) and has better provisions for children and child care. COAP and LIPP can be somewhat similar in how they treat spouses, depending on individual circumstances. (Yes, I have looked into these things on the behalf of Mr. Edamame aka my boyfriend).

Excited to hear your thoughts!


The underlined is not Yale specific and will hold true at HLS as well. It's a mistake to underestimate HLS students simply because you got into Yale, as pre-admission statistics and resume don't correlate very strongly with law school success.

But you do sound like you are approaching this thoughtfully and are on the right track. I think you should go to Yale. Any idea in the difference in cost of attendance?

edamame
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby edamame » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:20 pm

ph14 wrote:
edamame wrote:Hi, everyone. I'm currently struggling with this decision and wanted to ask for your input.

I'm interested in DOJ work after my 1L summer, wish to work with a D.C. firm during my 2L summer, and wish to have a federal clerkship after graduation.

I am very risk averse and do not want to strike out. That being said, I want to continue doing firm work after my clerkship and then perhaps transition to the government.

HLS downside: Huge, easy to get lost in the shuffle. I'll have to work really hard to get noticed before I can get professor recommendations. Conversation with OCS seemed like D.C. was a tough market to crack -- they told me I should network and rely on my ties. Also, Harvard Law Review is tougher to get than Yale Law Journal is.

YLS downside: New Haven -- haven't visited, but haven't heard good things. I'm K-JD from a state school (finance major), and I'm scared that there will be so many people that are much better at law, speaking with professors, getting ahead than I am. Also, I don't fit the typical YLS student mold. I'm interested in corporate work and intend to thrive off it if I can find a practice area that truly engages me.

Let me know what you think. I like COAP -- it's more generous (inherently) and has better provisions for children and child care. COAP and LIPP can be somewhat similar in how they treat spouses, depending on individual circumstances. (Yes, I have looked into these things on the behalf of Mr. Edamame aka my boyfriend).

Excited to hear your thoughts!


The underlined is not Yale specific and will hold true at HLS as well. It's a mistake to underestimate HLS students simply because you got into Yale, as pre-admission statistics and resume don't correlate very strongly with law school success.

But you do sound like you are approaching this thoughtfully and are on the right track. I think you should go to Yale. Any idea in the difference in cost of attendance?


Not really -- it will be minimal. Parents are helping me out with tuition for the first year. After that, I'm on my own. I know YLS has a generous financial aid policy, but I doubt I'll qualify as I'm under 26. (If you're over 26, your parental contribution is cut in half, I believe).

Why do you suggest Yale?

User avatar
ph14
Posts: 3224
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby ph14 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:26 pm

edamame wrote:
ph14 wrote:
edamame wrote:Hi, everyone. I'm currently struggling with this decision and wanted to ask for your input.

I'm interested in DOJ work after my 1L summer, wish to work with a D.C. firm during my 2L summer, and wish to have a federal clerkship after graduation.

I am very risk averse and do not want to strike out. That being said, I want to continue doing firm work after my clerkship and then perhaps transition to the government.

HLS downside: Huge, easy to get lost in the shuffle. I'll have to work really hard to get noticed before I can get professor recommendations. Conversation with OCS seemed like D.C. was a tough market to crack -- they told me I should network and rely on my ties. Also, Harvard Law Review is tougher to get than Yale Law Journal is.

YLS downside: New Haven -- haven't visited, but haven't heard good things. I'm K-JD from a state school (finance major), and I'm scared that there will be so many people that are much better at law, speaking with professors, getting ahead than I am. Also, I don't fit the typical YLS student mold. I'm interested in corporate work and intend to thrive off it if I can find a practice area that truly engages me.

Let me know what you think. I like COAP -- it's more generous (inherently) and has better provisions for children and child care. COAP and LIPP can be somewhat similar in how they treat spouses, depending on individual circumstances. (Yes, I have looked into these things on the behalf of Mr. Edamame aka my boyfriend).

Excited to hear your thoughts!


The underlined is not Yale specific and will hold true at HLS as well. It's a mistake to underestimate HLS students simply because you got into Yale, as pre-admission statistics and resume don't correlate very strongly with law school success.

But you do sound like you are approaching this thoughtfully and are on the right track. I think you should go to Yale. Any idea in the difference in cost of attendance?


Not really -- it will be minimal. Parents are helping me out with tuition for the first year. After that, I'm on my own. I know YLS has a generous financial aid policy, but I doubt I'll qualify as I'm under 26. (If you're over 26, your parental contribution is cut in half, I believe).

Why do you suggest Yale?


I think it maximizes your odds at a federal clerkship, and a D.C. biglaw or government job. And if the costs are similar, then Yale is a good choice, unless you have strong personal reasons for preferring Cambridge to New Haven. But either school will place you in a good position to meet your career goals.

User avatar
JamMasterJ
Posts: 6688
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:27 pm

Yale like literally doesn't have 1L grades. So if you're risk averse, know that you can simply show up to OCI and get a job.

There's virtually no way you'll get money at H and not at Y

062914123
Posts: 1846
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:11 pm

.

Postby 062914123 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:27 pm

.
Last edited by 062914123 on Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ph14
Posts: 3224
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby ph14 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:29 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:Yale like literally doesn't have 1L grades. So if you're risk averse, know that you can simply show up to OCI and get a job.

There's virtually no way you'll get money at H and not at Y


The biggest difference is in class size. Yale has under 200 people I think; Harvard has nearly 600. This is beneficial for Yale graduates.

I think that Yale does have grades just for 2nd semester 1L. But this isn't necessarily an unmitigated benefit. It means that it is harder to separate yourself if you are at the top of your class, and makes other things more important relative to grades.

delusional
Posts: 1190
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:57 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby delusional » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:34 pm

If there's a general advantage at Harvard, it's the range of experiences that you can have because of its size. If you've already picked out curtains for your 1L summer sublet, it doesn't sound like that's what you're after. Choose Yale.

User avatar
dawyzest1
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby dawyzest1 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:38 pm

It's great to be able to work through this choice. Congrats! I'm going to vote Yale for you. I think there's a lot that's telling in how you interpret H's size. Sounds like you think the size means you'll get lost, whereas for others size means multiple critical masses and a multitude of opportunities (classes, clinics, and the like).

edamame wrote:Conversation with OCS seemed like D.C. was a tough market to crack -- they told me I should network and rely on my ties.


:shock: That's really the best they had for you? Yikes.

edamame
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby edamame » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:41 pm

dawyzest1 wrote:It's great to be able to work through this choice. Congrats! I'm going to vote Yale for you. I think there's a lot that's telling in how you interpret H's size. Sounds like you think the size means you'll get lost, whereas for others size means multiple critical masses and a multitude of opportunities (classes, clinics, and the like).

edamame wrote:Conversation with OCS seemed like D.C. was a tough market to crack -- they told me I should network and rely on my ties.


:shock: That's really the best they had for you? Yikes.


Yes -- that's what the OCS advisor told me. He said to network with D.C. firms over break.

I used to think that size meant additional clinical opportunities until Asha (on the Facebook group) posted an ABA document that showed that YLS had more clinical positions than its enrollment. Unfortunately, the same couldn't be said for HLS.

User avatar
ph14
Posts: 3224
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby ph14 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:42 pm

edamame wrote:
dawyzest1 wrote:It's great to be able to work through this choice. Congrats! I'm going to vote Yale for you. I think there's a lot that's telling in how you interpret H's size. Sounds like you think the size means you'll get lost, whereas for others size means multiple critical masses and a multitude of opportunities (classes, clinics, and the like).

edamame wrote:Conversation with OCS seemed like D.C. was a tough market to crack -- they told me I should network and rely on my ties.


:shock: That's really the best they had for you? Yikes.


Yes -- that's what the OCS advisor told me. He said to network with D.C. firms over break.

I used to think that size meant additional clinical opportunities until Asha (on the Facebook group) posted an ABA document that showed that YLS had more clinical positions than its enrollment. Unfortunately, the same couldn't be said for HLS.


Just be careful not to read too much into the difference. It's not as if Yale guarantees you a D.C. SA position and Harvard won't be able to get you a D.C. SA position.

edamame
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby edamame » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:46 pm

ph14 wrote:
edamame wrote:
dawyzest1 wrote:It's great to be able to work through this choice. Congrats! I'm going to vote Yale for you. I think there's a lot that's telling in how you interpret H's size. Sounds like you think the size means you'll get lost, whereas for others size means multiple critical masses and a multitude of opportunities (classes, clinics, and the like).

edamame wrote:Conversation with OCS seemed like D.C. was a tough market to crack -- they told me I should network and rely on my ties.


:shock: That's really the best they had for you? Yikes.


Yes -- that's what the OCS advisor told me. He said to network with D.C. firms over break.

I used to think that size meant additional clinical opportunities until Asha (on the Facebook group) posted an ABA document that showed that YLS had more clinical positions than its enrollment. Unfortunately, the same couldn't be said for HLS.


Just be careful not to read too much into the difference. It's not as if Yale guarantees you a D.C. SA position and Harvard won't be able to get you a D.C. SA position.


Totally true. HLS seemed to highlight its alumni career advising, but I'm pretty sure YLS has that, too. I need to talk to a few more people to figure out how receptive each school's alumni network is.

User avatar
dawyzest1
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby dawyzest1 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:14 pm

edamame wrote:
I used to think that size meant additional clinical opportunities until Asha (on the Facebook group) posted an ABA document that showed that YLS had more clinical positions than its enrollment. Unfortunately, the same couldn't be said for HLS.


I could be off here, but seems to me that's a bit of a spurious measure. That suggests there are ample spaces in the various clinics Yale offers such that anyone who wants to do it is guaranteed of being able to. That's definitely not the case at Harvard. I think JS said 75% of people get their first choice clinic if they go that route. But Harvard has 30 different clinics and at quick glance Yale has about half that.

That being said, I don't think this is much of a factor one way or the other.

User avatar
ph14
Posts: 3224
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby ph14 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:22 pm

dawyzest1 wrote:
edamame wrote:
I used to think that size meant additional clinical opportunities until Asha (on the Facebook group) posted an ABA document that showed that YLS had more clinical positions than its enrollment. Unfortunately, the same couldn't be said for HLS.


I could be off here, but seems to me that's a bit of a spurious measure. That suggests there are ample spaces in the various clinics Yale offers such that anyone who wants to do it is guaranteed of being able to. That's definitely not the case at Harvard. I think JS said 75% of people get their first choice clinic if they go that route. But Harvard has 30 different clinics and at quick glance Yale has about half that.

That being said, I don't think this is much of a factor one way or the other.


This. I think that clinics are a bigger deal in selling a school to prospective student than they actually are at school. They really sell them hard but I wouldn't let this factor too much into your decision.

User avatar
UtilityMonster
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:16 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby UtilityMonster » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:34 pm

I don't think Yale students are more intelligent or stiffer competition than Harvard students.

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:00 am

dawyzest1 wrote:But Harvard has 30 different clinics and at quick glance Yale has about half that.


Yale has 27 clinics at last count. Only about half of them are in the LSO, so you won't find them all on the same webpage.

OP, there's no "YLS student mold." There are plenty of people here with your interests. Other "minority" career interests are just more well-represented here.

edamame
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby edamame » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:11 am

Ti Malice wrote:
dawyzest1 wrote:But Harvard has 30 different clinics and at quick glance Yale has about half that.


Yale has 27 clinics at last count. Only about half of them are in the LSO, so you won't find them all on the same webpage.

OP, there's no "YLS student mold." There are plenty of people here with your interests. Other "minority" career interests are just more well-represented here.


By LSO, do you mean: http://www.law.yale.edu/academics/JeromeNFrankLSO.htm

Also, Ti Malice, if you don't mind me asking, what drew you to YLS versus HLS? I looked through your posts when I was still pending at Yale, and from what I recall, I think you were accepted to both. :-)

Thanks for chiming in!

qwertyboard
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:03 am

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby qwertyboard » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:36 am

I vote Yale.

Also, not adding to OPs dilemma, but if Harvard reduces that massive class by half it would improve the t14 statistics by 1000%.

062914123
Posts: 1846
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:11 pm

.

Postby 062914123 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:48 am

.
Last edited by 062914123 on Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby hephaestus » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:52 am

bee wrote:
qwertyboard wrote:I vote Yale.

Also, not adding to OPs dilemma, but if Harvard reduces that massive class by half it would improve the t14 statistics by 1000%.

I honestly always wondered why Harvard has such a huge class... isn't it the biggest of the T14?

I think GULC is slightly bigger.

Dixie
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:52 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby Dixie » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:41 pm

With my limited knowledge regarding career trajectory from Ivy Law I vote Yale.

Clerkship placement.
--LinkRemoved--

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:58 pm

edamame wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
dawyzest1 wrote:But Harvard has 30 different clinics and at quick glance Yale has about half that.


Yale has 27 clinics at last count. Only about half of them are in the LSO, so you won't find them all on the same webpage.

OP, there's no "YLS student mold." There are plenty of people here with your interests. Other "minority" career interests are just more well-represented here.


By LSO, do you mean: http://www.law.yale.edu/academics/JeromeNFrankLSO.htm

Also, Ti Malice, if you don't mind me asking, what drew you to YLS versus HLS? I looked through your posts when I was still pending at Yale, and from what I recall, I think you were accepted to both. :-)

Thanks for chiming in!


Hey edamame, let me link you to a post I wrote for anela00. I realize that this doesn't exactly answer your question, since it's written with the benefit of hindsight, but I think it will be useful to you: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=199344&p=6559518#p6559518. Also read the posts by oso84, a 3L who by definition knows quite a bit more about this place than I do. I'm happy to answer more of your questions, whether here or by PM, but I thought this would be a good place for you to start. And I can also share a couple of other reasons with you by PM as to why I chose YLS over HLS (and SLS), but I'd prefer not to out myself in this thread.

And yes, that's what I meant by LSO. The non-LSO clinics are listed here: http://www.law.yale.edu/academics/clini ... nities.htm.

User avatar
loomstate
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:07 am

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby loomstate » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:18 pm

bee wrote:I honestly always wondered why Harvard has such a huge class... isn't it the biggest of the T14?


money, and also it increases the odds that someone famous - ie the president - is from harvard law. but really just the $

dixiecupdrinking
Posts: 3139
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:29 pm

edamame wrote:I'm interested in DOJ work after my 1L summer

Yale.

edamame wrote:wish to work with a D.C. firm during my 2L summer

Yale.

edamame wrote:wish to have a federal clerkship after graduation

YALE.

edamame wrote:I am very risk averse

Yale.

Honestly, I don't buy any argument for why anyone ever ought to go to Harvard over Yale, unless they are so unbelievably finicky that they just can't stand to live in New Haven (which is really not that bad), but especially not someone who wants a federal clerkship.

Harvard, to me, is CCN-plus. It's a little harder to get into than those schools and places a little bit better into the most prestigious things. I mean Harvard is great, and for anyone who gets in there and not Yale or Stanford it's usually a no-brainer, but it isn't a categorically better place to be than a lot of other schools. Yale is that much better.

User avatar
UtilityMonster
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:16 pm

Re: Harvard vs Yale

Postby UtilityMonster » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:16 pm

Harvard is not CCN+. It opens up new doors that CCN don't. Academia, unparalleled name recognition, much better shot at prestigious PI work, significantly better for politics, much better for international, much better for fortune 500 corporate, and so on.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests