H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one) Forum

[TaipeiMort]

I would compare more years than just the most recent one if you're looking at clerkship chances. 14% seems high for Chicago and 18% low for Harvard. These things can vary a lot year to year; class of 2012 at NYU had freaking horrible fed clerkship numbers for some reason (like, less than 6%) but it was basically twice that for class of 2011, which you'd expect to be a more competitive year since the economy was worse. Obviously federal judges didn't decide overnight that they hate NYU graduates. It's a bunch of little random things, mostly (plus I think the clerkship office messed up big time, but I digress, and the point remains).

Anyway, either way I think you should take the money.

Its not low for Chicago. You forget that Chicago has an advantage in that it is the more conservative T14 school (Scalia, Epstein, Posner, Easterbrook, etc.), and owns the law/econ cult. There are a disproportionate number of conservative judges relative to the population of practicing attorneys as a whole. Therefore, Chicago outperforms its ranking and is more like H than Columbia or NYU. That being said, I don't know how much it would help if you are not going to go that route. But., liberals still perform well. See, e.g., http://uchilawgo.wordpress.com/2013/04/ ... white-guy/.

I checked and NYU outplaced Chicago for fed clerkships for class of 2011. So, I don't know, man, I'm a little weary of the Chicago schtick.

Edit: NYU here (14.35% clerks x 79.37% federal = 11.4%), Chicago here (10.1% clerks x 95.0% federal = 9.6%).

Eyeballing the two years prior also makes them look pretty damn close.

I'm just saying.

Good point.

[RodneyRuxin]

Retake because this is TLS

[The Brainalist]

I checked and NYU outplaced Chicago for fed clerkships for class of 2011. So, I don't know, man, I'm a little weary of the Chicago schtick.

Edit: NYU here (14.35% clerks x 79.37% federal = 11.4%), Chicago here (10.1% clerks x 95.0% federal = 9.6%).

Eyeballing the two years prior also makes them look pretty damn close.

I'm just saying.

It seems like there was that one year they gave NYU a chance, then decided they didn't like the taste:
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0310002910

Chicago may not ever surpass HYS in the clerking category, but it is hard to dispute its historical and, most likely, continuing power. There is something to be said for the power of inertia. Old reputations are going to be hard to change with these lifetime tenured judges.

And "I'm just saying" is a sure sign of a weak argument. It adds nothing to the power of your statement. You are basically admitting that you have very little confidence in your own words.

[Grazzhoppa]

I checked and NYU outplaced Chicago for fed clerkships for class of 2011. So, I don't know, man, I'm a little weary of the Chicago schtick.

Edit: NYU here (14.35% clerks x 79.37% federal = 11.4%), Chicago here (10.1% clerks x 95.0% federal = 9.6%).

Eyeballing the two years prior also makes them look pretty damn close.

I'm just saying.

It seems like there was that one year they gave NYU a chance, then decided they didn't like the taste:
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0310002910

Chicago may not ever surpass HYS in the clerking category, but it is hard to dispute its historical and, most likely, continuing power. There is something to be said for the power of inertia. Old reputations are going to be hard to change with these lifetime tenured judges.

And "I'm just saying" is a sure sign of a weak argument. It adds nothing to the power of your statement. You are basically admitting that you have very little confidence in your own words.

It's actually a euphemism for "you're full of shit." At least that's how I've always understood it.

[sinfiery]

--ImageRemoved--


more data!

[Rlabo]

Put the 3 choices in a hat and pick one out. In the long run there' really no wrong choice here. Or go where you think you'll be happier.

[The Brainalist]

And "I'm just saying" is a sure sign of a weak argument. It adds nothing to the power of your statement. You are basically admitting that you have very little confidence in your own words.

It's actually a euphemism for "you're full of shit." At least that's how I've always understood it.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... 20sayin%27

[dissonance1848]

Harvard is out of the running here, as Stanford has superior Clerkship placement, Academia placement, and being smaller and easier grade wise, makes good outcomes more likely than Harvard.

Between Stanford and Chicago, its really up to you, OP.

The people telling you to take the money and run I think are making the right case.

If you conservatively assume median OP, then at Stanford you are out of the running for Clerking, Academia, etc., with quite a bit of debt, while at Chicago you have little debt, and still would have biglaw (odds very good for that outcome).

Take Chicago OP.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I checked and NYU outplaced Chicago for fed clerkships for class of 2011. So, I don't know, man, I'm a little weary of the Chicago schtick.

Edit: NYU here (14.35% clerks x 79.37% federal = 11.4%), Chicago here (10.1% clerks x 95.0% federal = 9.6%).

Eyeballing the two years prior also makes them look pretty damn close.

I'm just saying.

It seems like there was that one year they gave NYU a chance, then decided they didn't like the taste:
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0310002910

Chicago may not ever surpass HYS in the clerking category, but it is hard to dispute its historical and, most likely, continuing power. There is something to be said for the power of inertia. Old reputations are going to be hard to change with these lifetime tenured judges.

And "I'm just saying" is a sure sign of a weak argument. It adds nothing to the power of your statement. You are basically admitting that you have very little confidence in your own words.

I'm just using NYU as an example and it isn't actually relevant to the discussion. You can look at the chart sinfiery posted and see that Chicago is annually tied with or surpassed by several lower T14 schools for clerkship placement every year. You can also look at the information I posted and see that NYU, as an example of a school that is allegedly less competitive for clerkships, has been neck and neck with Chicago for clerkship placement in every recent year except for 2012, the only year for which you posted data and an apparent historical outlier for NYU. The upshot is that there isn't really a good reason to think Chicago is a clerkship powerhouse, even though it has that reputation. I'm a little surprised by it, in fact, but the numbers are the numbers.

And the point of all this is that I would pay a premium for HS (particularly Stanford) if I were really dead set on clerking. THAT SAID I would still personally go to Chicago here because that premium shouldn't be six figures.

Also, thank you for the rhetoric advice, I will take it under consideration.

[The Brainalist]

I'm just using NYU as an example and it isn't actually relevant to the discussion. You can look at the chart sinfiery posted and see that Chicago is annually tied with or surpassed by several lower T14 schools for clerkship placement every year. You can also look at the information I posted and see that NYU, as an example of a school that is allegedly less competitive for clerkships, has been neck and neck with Chicago for clerkship placement in every recent year except for 2012, the only year for which you posted data and an apparent historical outlier for NYU. The upshot is that there isn't really a good reason to think Chicago is a clerkship powerhouse, even though it has that reputation. I'm a little surprised by it, in fact, but the numbers are the numbers.

NYU is maybe the worst example if you want to make that point, though. Its highest ever rate was probably that year you cited, 11.4%, but it was around 8% most years before that, bottoming out (I presume) the most recent year somewhere below Emory's 6.4%, not even in the top 20.

Chicago, on the otherhand, reached up and tapped Harvard on the shoulder in 2008, with a 13% rate to Harvard's 15.5%, and did it again in 2012 with 14.9% to Harvard's 17.8%. (If Chicago's reputation is supported by historically better numbers than this, I would like to see them.) The worst you can say about Chicago is that it has had a year where it was marginally below one of NYU's better years. I'm not sure if that is meant to be a dig at Chicago or a compliment to NYU or what.

[eph]

Harvard or Stanford. That depends on east or west coast. If you are coast indifferent Harvard. It is hard as hell to turn down the money I know, I know, I know.

[untar614]

Go check out the HYS v Ruby/Hamilton thread. Lots of back and forth reasons for one over the other. Basically, if you are really set on clerking/academia, i'd lean H/S. At median you likely wont get clerkship coming out, but stanford increses ur odds drastically, and u'd still be able to service the debt coming out of there. Then there's good LRAP for lower paynig but prestigious pi/gov jobs. If making money is the first priority, then ruby.