H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

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I should:

HLS
12
12%
SLS
15
15%
Ruby
60
62%
Retake
10
10%
 
Total votes: 97

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callmemaybe84
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H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby callmemaybe84 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:06 pm

Okay, so I want to hear arguments from you all. I know I have an embarrassment of riches, but any thoughts on this debate (I've found a few).

Options:
HLS (160k expected debt, loans)
SLS (150k expected debt, loans)
Chicago (0k expected debt, Ruby)

I have scholarships and some minor savings that will finance all of this. Other than the loans.

In the short term: I want litigation, ideally in the DC market. Academia is something I'd love to do in the medium term (but I realize how fickle that market is), and getting a clerkship is very important to me.

Thoughts?

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:08 pm

take the money and run.

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sinfiery
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby sinfiery » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:12 pm

3% increase in clerkship chances at H
14% increase in clerkship chances at S


neither, imo, are worth 150k+ in debt.



Unless DC is impossible from C and likely at one of H or S, take the money for your goals.


Financially speaking ofc.

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Lacepiece23
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby Lacepiece23 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:14 pm

I'd only take Harvard if you wanted that lay prestige. For me it would be worth telling people that I went to Harvard. If your like normal people take the money and run.

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callmemaybe84
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby callmemaybe84 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:14 pm

sinfiery wrote:3% increase in clerkship chances at H
14% increase in clerkship chances at S
neither, imo, are worth 150k+ in debt.
Unless DC is impossible from C and likely at one of H or S, take the money for your goals.

Financially speaking ofc.


3 percent higher at HLS than Chicago? where are you getting that statistic?

For appellate Chicago averages 20, I'd imagine harvard (at under 3x size) averages well over 60...

And HLS/YLS own the DC Circuit. Not that that's a realistic clerking goal, but it's true...
Last edited by callmemaybe84 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sinfiery
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby sinfiery » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:16 pm

Last edited by sinfiery on Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LSATSCORES2012
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby LSATSCORES2012 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:19 pm

callmemaybe84 wrote:
sinfiery wrote:3% increase in clerkship chances at H
14% increase in clerkship chances at S
neither, imo, are worth 150k+ in debt.
Unless DC is impossible from C and likely at one of H or S, take the money for your goals.

Financially speaking ofc.


3 percent higher at HLS than Chicago? where are you getting that statistic?

For appellate Chicago averages 20, I'd imagine harvard (at under 3x size) averages well over 60...

And HLS/YLS own the DC Circuit. Not that that's a realistic clerking goal, but it's true...

Chicago placed 14.4% in federal clerkships, Harvard placed 17.8%, and Stanford placed 28.2% for the class of 2012.

Harvard placed 3.4 percentage points more than Chicago and Stanford placed 13.8 more percentage points.

ETA: Scooped :)

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gaud
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby gaud » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:20 pm

Ghost93 wrote:take the money and run.

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callmemaybe84
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby callmemaybe84 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:21 pm

sinfiery wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206368


alternatively
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=harvard
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chicago


no idea about DC specifically


Thanks. That's interesting, I honestly hadn't looked at data this recent. I'd always assumed about 10 percent of chicago vs about 18 percent hls and 25 percent sls.

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sinfiery
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby sinfiery » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:23 pm

H then SY seem to be stronger in down economies but employment outcomes become less and less variant between HYS and the rest in stronger economies

fluffythepenguin
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby fluffythepenguin » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:37 pm

I'd venture to guess that Rubenstein scholars will clerk at a higher rate than the UofC population writ large.

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Clearly
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby Clearly » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:40 pm

fluffythepenguin wrote:I'd venture to guess that Rubenstein scholars will clerk at a higher rate than the UofC population writ large.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:42 pm

Clerkship + Academia = SLS or HLS. HLS is better for academia, but SLS has a higher clerkship percentage.

Clerkships
Chicago = 14%
HLS = 18%
SLS = 28%

I do not know the relative advantages of HLS or SLS over Chicago in the DC biglaw market.

This being said, it's a personal decision as to whether these advantages are worth $140-150k for you.

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Emma.
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby Emma. » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:52 pm

Ghost93 wrote:take the money and run.

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jetsfan1
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby jetsfan1 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:58 pm

Slightly off topic not trying to jack the thread, but if someone wants academia, does having a Ruby at Chicago put you in as good of a position as going to Harvard?

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:01 pm

I would compare more years than just the most recent one if you're looking at clerkship chances. 14% seems high for Chicago and 18% low for Harvard. These things can vary a lot year to year; class of 2012 at NYU had freaking horrible fed clerkship numbers for some reason (like, less than 6%) but it was basically twice that for class of 2011, which you'd expect to be a more competitive year since the economy was worse. Obviously federal judges didn't decide overnight that they hate NYU graduates. It's a bunch of little random things, mostly (plus I think the clerkship office messed up big time, but I digress, and the point remains).

Anyway, either way I think you should take the money.
Last edited by dixiecupdrinking on Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wannabelawstudent
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby wannabelawstudent » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:01 pm

Dude take the Ruby, much more prestigious. Hundreds of people get into Harvard each year. Only dozens get DAT RUBY.
Last edited by wannabelawstudent on Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Emma.
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby Emma. » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:01 pm

jetsfan1 wrote:Slightly off topic not trying to jack the thread, but if someone wants academia, does having a Ruby at Chicago put you in as good of a position as going to Harvard?


The Rubenstein definitely helps facilitate making connections with faculty, which in turn probably helps with getting great recommendations for clerkships. Doing well in class is going to be up to you. However, in the 2L class (the only data point we really have at this point since the 1Ls only have 2 grades so far) the Rubenstein kids have been very successful, and several have already landed very prestigious feeder clerkships.

Revolver066
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby Revolver066 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:06 pm

How likely is it for a Ruby recipient to get DC litigation or a clerkship out of Chicago?

Current students would know better than I would, but if its really THAT important to you, going to, say, SLS for 150k isnt a terrible option I wouldnt think. But no debt at Chicago is probably too good to pass up.

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Flash
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby Flash » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:27 pm

wannabelawstudent wrote:Dude take the Ruby, much more prestigious. Hundreds of people get into Harvard each year. Only dozens get DAT RUBY.

lol

kaiser
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby kaiser » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:45 pm

Ruby. Easy choice. One of the best schools in the country and zero debt. What more could you ask for.

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patrickd139
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:54 pm

gaud wrote:
Ghost93 wrote:take the money and run.

toothbrush
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby toothbrush » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:56 pm

go with the Ruby and congrats :)

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TaipeiMort
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby TaipeiMort » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:12 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:I would compare more years than just the most recent one if you're looking at clerkship chances. 14% seems high for Chicago and 18% low for Harvard. These things can vary a lot year to year; class of 2012 at NYU had freaking horrible fed clerkship numbers for some reason (like, less than 6%) but it was basically twice that for class of 2011, which you'd expect to be a more competitive year since the economy was worse. Obviously federal judges didn't decide overnight that they hate NYU graduates. It's a bunch of little random things, mostly (plus I think the clerkship office messed up big time, but I digress, and the point remains).

Anyway, either way I think you should take the money.


Its not low for Chicago. You forget that Chicago has an advantage in that it is the more conservative T14 school (Scalia, Epstein, Posner, Easterbrook, etc.), and owns the law/econ cult. There are a disproportionate number of conservative judges relative to the population of practicing attorneys as a whole. Therefore, Chicago outperforms its ranking and is more like H than Columbia or NYU. That being said, I don't know how much it would help if you are not going to go that route. But., liberals still perform well. See, e.g., http://uchilawgo.wordpress.com/2013/04/ ... white-guy/.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: H/S/Ruby (or, I'm a very lucky one)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:20 am

TaipeiMort wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:I would compare more years than just the most recent one if you're looking at clerkship chances. 14% seems high for Chicago and 18% low for Harvard. These things can vary a lot year to year; class of 2012 at NYU had freaking horrible fed clerkship numbers for some reason (like, less than 6%) but it was basically twice that for class of 2011, which you'd expect to be a more competitive year since the economy was worse. Obviously federal judges didn't decide overnight that they hate NYU graduates. It's a bunch of little random things, mostly (plus I think the clerkship office messed up big time, but I digress, and the point remains).

Anyway, either way I think you should take the money.


Its not low for Chicago. You forget that Chicago has an advantage in that it is the more conservative T14 school (Scalia, Epstein, Posner, Easterbrook, etc.), and owns the law/econ cult. There are a disproportionate number of conservative judges relative to the population of practicing attorneys as a whole. Therefore, Chicago outperforms its ranking and is more like H than Columbia or NYU. That being said, I don't know how much it would help if you are not going to go that route. But., liberals still perform well. See, e.g., http://uchilawgo.wordpress.com/2013/04/ ... white-guy/.

I checked and NYU outplaced Chicago for fed clerkships for class of 2011. So, I don't know, man, I'm a little weary of the Chicago schtick.

Edit: NYU here (14.35% clerks x 79.37% federal = 11.4%), Chicago here (10.1% clerks x 95.0% federal = 9.6%).

Eyeballing the two years prior also makes them look pretty damn close.

I'm just saying.




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