American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

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bahuja90
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American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby bahuja90 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:14 pm

I know the people on here can be counted on to give an extremely honest answer, so my question is American or Catholic?

LSAT: 159 (taking it again isn't an option, I need to start school somewhere this fall)
GPA: 3.45

COA:
- American= $45K a year (Full tuition minus a measly one time merit scholarship of 5k)
- Catholic= $25K a year ($19K in scholarships with the possibility of more)
- My parents will be covering COL so I don't need to worry about that thankfully
- Otherwise, I will be paying for tuition using loans and from my savings

I'm from the DC area and I want to continue to work and practice in the DC area (very strong ties). I want to work in public interest law and ideally work for the government in gender law/civil rights law. Both law schools place graduates into the government at a high percentage, making this a tough decision (though I'm sure I'm about to be told it isn't).

I'm also wait-listed at William and Mary and I plan on visiting this weekend.

Thank you!

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hephaestus
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby hephaestus » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:18 pm

Threshold questions:
(1) Why cant you retake?
(2) Why do you have to go in the fall?

timbs4339
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:20 pm

You will not get government civil rights law from these schools (there are like 5 people who do that). If by gender law you mean prosecuting domestic violence offenders, then it might be possible. But neither of these schools are worth the debt incurred. Gun to head, Catholic.

bahuja90
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby bahuja90 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:25 pm

I've already delayed going to law school by a few years and I can't delay it anymore. I know if I retook the LSAT I would have better options but that's just not feasible for me right now. Though I am not opposed to transferring after 1L to a better school.

And to clarify, I would love to work in the DOJ or EEOC. I want to work in the public policy field.

My hesitation is the difference in ranking between the two (WCL is 56 and CUA is 80) or does it really not matter when it comes to wanting a job in the public service field??

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stillwater
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby stillwater » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:27 pm

bahuja90 wrote:I've already delayed going to law school by a few years and I can't delay it anymore. I know if I retook the LSAT I would have better options but that's just not feasible for me right now. Though I am not opposed to transferring after 1L to a better school.

And to clarify, I would love to work in the DOJ or EEOC. I want to work in the public policy field.

My hesitation is the difference in ranking between the two (WCL is 56 and CUA is 80) or does it really not matter when it comes to wanting a job in the public service field??


DOJ or EEOC is probably not possible from these schools. You need to retake or kiss your dreams... goodbye.

Otherwise, shitlaw LOOMS and you'll be lucky to be working 9-5 at arby's as the deli cutter's assistant.

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jbagelboy
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:31 pm

it feels like this decision requires more information that you are somehow withholding. I understand you don't just want people to say "retake" -- sure, it gets old -- but then what are your reasons for attending these schools? Do you have a network associated with them? Are there interested parties who are aware you are attending and will be supportive upon graduation (i.e. employment)? If you "must" go somewhere in the fall, then we assume there is pressure from somewhere and the nature of that pressure influences this choice.

I would not attend these schools @ that price in the hope of accessing a new network and making new fruitful connections in the legal or business world. What is factoring into your decision besides cost?

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hephaestus
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby hephaestus » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:31 pm

bahuja90 wrote:I've already delayed going to law school by a few years and I can't delay it anymore. I know if I retook the LSAT I would have better options but that's just not feasible for me right now. Though I am not opposed to transferring after 1L to a better school.

And to clarify, I would love to work in the DOJ or EEOC. I want to work in the public policy field.

My hesitation is the difference in ranking between the two (WCL is 56 and CUA is 80) or does it really not matter when it comes to wanting a job in the public service field??

These are extremely, extremely competitive jobs. I go to a T14 and we have rarely (if at all) placed anyone into these jobs right out of the school in the last five years. The best you can likely hope for is local or state gov work, but that is also extremely competitive due to these jobs usually being eligible for loan forgiveness.
If you genuinely want to do policy work, get an MPP or MPA. A JD is not the degree for it.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:34 pm

bahuja90 wrote:I know the people on here can be counted on to give an extremely honest answer, so my question is American or Catholic?

LSAT: 159 (taking it again isn't an option, I need to start school somewhere this fall)
GPA: 3.45

COA:
- American= $45K a year (Full tuition minus a measly one time merit scholarship of 5k)
- Catholic= $25K a year ($19K in scholarships with the possibility of more)
- My parents will be covering COL so I don't need to worry about that thankfully
- Otherwise, I will be paying for tuition using loans and from my savings

I'm from the DC area and I want to continue to work and practice in the DC area (very strong ties). I want to work in public interest law and ideally work for the government in gender law/civil rights law. Both law schools place graduates into the government at a high percentage, making this a tough decision (though I'm sure I'm about to be told it isn't).

I'm also wait-listed at William and Mary and I plan on visiting this weekend.

Thank you!


Why do you need to start law school in the fall? If it because you don't know what else you will do or your peers/parents are starting to doubt you, please, please retake your LSAT.

Ti Malice
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:47 pm

bahuja90 wrote:taking it again isn't an option, I need to start school somewhere this fall)


Nothing about this statement is true.

COA:
- American= $45K a year (Full tuition minus a measly one time merit scholarship of 5k)
- Catholic= $25K a year ($19K in scholarships with the possibility of more)
- My parents will be covering COL so I don't need to worry about that thankfully
- Otherwise, I will be paying for tuition using loans and from my savings

I'm from the DC area and I want to continue to work and practice in the DC area (very strong ties). I want to work in public interest law and ideally work for the government in gender law/civil rights law. Both law schools place graduates into the government at a high percentage, making this a tough decision (though I'm sure I'm about to be told it isn't).

I'm also wait-listed at William and Mary and I plan on visiting this weekend.

Thank you!


Employment prospects are spectacularly awful from both schools. American at sticker is financial suicide. Catholic at that cost is insanity. (But at least your parents would cover COL. A true waste of their money, but at least it's not part of your debt.) Neither of these schools place at all in the kind of government jobs you're hoping for.

Retake or don't go. Picking Catholic over American would probably be like shooting yourself in the gut instead of shooting yourself in the face. Though I'm sure the stips on the scholarship are awful -- in which case you only really have a one-year grant.

timbs4339
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:07 pm

The DOJ (especially civil rights division) is wayyy more competitive than biglaw. I'm talking HYS credentials. I'm not even sure if the EEOC has an honors program for new attorneys but if they do it is certainly extremely competitive as well. If not, you'll probably need to work in a biglaw employment group for a few years then lateral into government. Not gonna happen from either school.

Government employment is a possibility. However, it is going to be local DA. Maybe state AG. You need to disabuse yourself of this notion that public service is somehow easier to get than biglaw. It's not anymore.

For your goals you cannot attend either school. Retake.

dissonance1848
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby dissonance1848 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:17 pm

I assume this is an incompetently executed flame.... but if not OP, here is the scene;

Retake, or don't go, find something else to do.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby somewhatwayward » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:18 pm

Do you know that both of these schools place less than 40% of their graduates into full-time long-term legal jobs? That is atrocious, worse than most T4 schools. What are your other options? If you refuse to retake, then you should attend a cheap school that has at least marginally decent placement numbers - these schools are not cheap and they have terrible placement. There are some lower tier schools out there that place much better than these. In DC, George Mason and Howard both place around 50% into legal jobs, which is not great but noticeably better than the placement of American and Catholic. W&M is much better, but you would probably have to pay sticker, and it is not worth sticker. So did you apply to GMU or Howard (note: only attend these with 50K in debt or less)?

One thing I can tell you is that the ranking difference between American and Catholic means nothing, absolutely nothing. No one is drawing fine distinctions between #56 and #80. Everyone knows they are both middling schools in DC with terrible placement. You can see by their placement numbers (American 38.9% in FT/LT legal jobs v Catholic at 36.6%) that their placement power is equivalent(ly terrible). American places a couple percent more into big firms and clerkships, but both schools' figures in that arena are so low that it is negligible.

BigZuck
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:34 pm

ImNoScar wrote:Threshold questions:
(1) Why cant you retake?
(2) Why do you have to go in the fall?


Still waiting on the answer to these questions.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:40 pm

timbs4339 wrote:The DOJ (especially civil rights division) is wayyy more competitive than biglaw. I'm talking HYS credentials. I'm not even sure if the EEOC has an honors program for new attorneys but if they do it is certainly extremely competitive as well. If not, you'll probably need to work in a biglaw employment group for a few years then lateral into government. Not gonna happen from either school.

Government employment is a possibility. However, it is going to be local DA. Maybe state AG. You need to disabuse yourself of this notion that public service is somehow easier to get than biglaw. It's not anymore.

For your goals you cannot attend either school. Retake.

Yeah, the EEOC has had a freeze on its honors program for the last 3 years.

wannabelawstudent
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby wannabelawstudent » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:44 pm

Retake bro. Trust me I applied with similar numbers ended up waiting 2 years so I could take the Lsat again. Improved significantly. Now I'm enjoying much better offers. Plus you aren't factoring in COL in your estimates. This is a decision that will amount to hundreds of thousands of dollars over your lifetime.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: American v. Catholic (Yes, I'm looking at Tier 2/3)

Postby NoodleyOne » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:44 pm

Do not go to these schools. Christ.

DO NOT GO TO THESE SCHOOLS!




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