$30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

UCI w/ $30K in total aid?

Yes
7
8%
No
20
22%
Maybe
8
9%
Hell no!
57
62%
 
Total votes: 92

timbs4339
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:54 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:
tbf i don't think it's accurate to assume that placement size is halved just cuz the class size doubled, i don't think the relationship is so direct.


I understand the caution and agree but the bolded bit is a terrible fallacy. Does that mean a school that halves their class size doubles their employment numbers? Negative


I will obviously grant that my initial statement was hyperbolic, and that there is not a direct linear relationship between class size and placement power.

However, you must get the gist of what I was saying there, as well as that there are additional caveats which I did not mention which obviously will have significant marginal impact on the prospective employment outcomes of UCI's student body, namely the self-selection which occured in the two initial classes which recieved substantial subsidies from the school, as well as the initial deployment of social capital by the Dean and faculty.


The second part cannot be understated. UCI had high AIII clerkship placement. With a strong faculty, this is to be expected, since AIII hiring is generally more dependent on faculty recommendations that any other entry-level legal job by an extremely large margin. But the idea that UCI is going to be the go to school for that many federal judges each year, especially when judges are fielding calls from professors at schools all over the country and getting presented with the top students, is unlikely.

And when you have a well-credentialed faculty, their connections with other types of legal employers are bound to be limited since they did not spend much time in practice. I think one of the major problems with UCI is that their founders really overvalue the impact having a top faculty has on legal hiring.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:00 pm

timbs4339 wrote:The second part cannot be understated. UCI had high AIII clerkship placement. With a strong faculty, this is to be expected, since AIII hiring is generally more dependent on faculty recommendations that any other entry-level legal job by an extremely large margin. But the idea that UCI is going to be the go to school for that many federal judges each year, especially when judges are fielding calls from professors at schools all over the country and getting presented with the top students, is unlikely.

And when you have a well-credentialed faculty, their connections with other types of legal employers are bound to be limited since they did not spend much time in practice. I think one of the major problems with UCI is that their founders really overvalue the impact having a top faculty has on legal hiring.


To preface this, i'm not going to UCI so i have no stake in this.

I sort of agree with the above..my only comment is that these profs aren't new profs that are jumping into an already-saturated clerkship market. These are profs that came from good schools, like Duke. So these judges have likely been fielding calls from these profs for years, now it just happens to be on behalf of UCI instead of Duke or something.

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gitguy
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby gitguy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:02 pm

cusenation wrote:
gitguy wrote:I really appreciate everyone's input. Problem is, I did wait and retake. UCI was my target. Another year, another cycle... very hard to swallow. I'm set to leave my job to attend school. This is three years in the making. The most attractive alternative option for me right now is a nice package I got to U Maryland. Hence, my distress.


Hmm..I'm going to deviate from the conventional wisdom of the TLS hive mind and accept that re-taking/re-applying isn't an option. I sympathize with the job part because my company also knows I'm leaving for school...and I don't think i'd be too keen to sheepishly ask to stay longer last minute. (Although plenty of TLS posters will say that this is a small small price to pay for the presumed benefits of re-applying, but again, I'm accepting that this isn't an option)

Are the UCI's awards locked? There's no room to negotiate for more? I dunno how their need-grants work so I'll just assume that 15k is what you'll end up getting. if it's more, then great.

Have you considered taking the June LSAT? Maybe a higher LSAT will draw more interest from UCI. Are you eligible for PAYE? (Did you receive any federal loans before October 2007?)

Right now it looks like the only options are to aggressively negotiate more scholly, and i mean aggressively. Aka you bother them all the way through July and August. And/or taking the June LSAT to give you more leverage. Or you could apply for as many outside scholarships as you can.


Merit award seems locked. Dean Austin is very well acquainted with me at this point. She said it's all numbers based. I'm just a little shy of where they are putting the money.

Re the LSAT, it's a risk in that I could do worse. Part of the problem is I always have a dense work schedule which affected (and will continue to affect) my LSAT study. I will probably just bug them for more money, despite being shot down for all intents and purposes on an increase.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:04 pm

gitguy wrote:
cusenation wrote:
gitguy wrote:I really appreciate everyone's input. Problem is, I did wait and retake. UCI was my target. Another year, another cycle... very hard to swallow. I'm set to leave my job to attend school. This is three years in the making. The most attractive alternative option for me right now is a nice package I got to U Maryland. Hence, my distress.


Hmm..I'm going to deviate from the conventional wisdom of the TLS hive mind and accept that re-taking/re-applying isn't an option. I sympathize with the job part because my company also knows I'm leaving for school...and I don't think i'd be too keen to sheepishly ask to stay longer last minute. (Although plenty of TLS posters will say that this is a small small price to pay for the presumed benefits of re-applying, but again, I'm accepting that this isn't an option)

Are the UCI's awards locked? There's no room to negotiate for more? I dunno how their need-grants work so I'll just assume that 15k is what you'll end up getting. if it's more, then great.

Have you considered taking the June LSAT? Maybe a higher LSAT will draw more interest from UCI. Are you eligible for PAYE? (Did you receive any federal loans before October 2007?)

Right now it looks like the only options are to aggressively negotiate more scholly, and i mean aggressively. Aka you bother them all the way through July and August. And/or taking the June LSAT to give you more leverage. Or you could apply for as many outside scholarships as you can.


Merit award seems locked. Dean Austin is very well acquainted with me at this point. She said it's all numbers based. I'm just a little shy of where they are putting the money.

Re the LSAT, it's a risk in that I could do worse. Part of the problem is I always have a dense work schedule which affected (and will continue to affect) my LSAT study. I will probably just bug them for more money, despite being shot down for all intents and purposes on an increase.


I don't think u stand to lose anything if you do worse. They take your highest score. But there's a chance they'll throw more money at you as candidates withdraw and money is loosened up, so keep asking

timbs4339
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:07 pm

cusenation wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:The second part cannot be understated. UCI had high AIII clerkship placement. With a strong faculty, this is to be expected, since AIII hiring is generally more dependent on faculty recommendations that any other entry-level legal job by an extremely large margin. But the idea that UCI is going to be the go to school for that many federal judges each year, especially when judges are fielding calls from professors at schools all over the country and getting presented with the top students, is unlikely.

And when you have a well-credentialed faculty, their connections with other types of legal employers are bound to be limited since they did not spend much time in practice. I think one of the major problems with UCI is that their founders really overvalue the impact having a top faculty has on legal hiring.


To preface this, i'm not going to UCI so i have no stake in this.

I sort of agree with the above..my only comment is that these profs aren't new profs that are jumping into an already-saturated clerkship market. These are profs that came from good schools, like Duke. So these judges have likely been fielding calls from these profs for years, now it just happens to be on behalf of UCI instead of Duke or something.


Agreed, but even well-established profs don't automatically feed to certain judges each cycle. There are very few profs who have a spot reserved each year for a student at a particular judge. The judges had other clerks who are now in the academy too.

I'd also be very wary of claims made about how this faculty in particular "really realllllly wants to help students get jobs." The financial incentive for them to do so is not that great, since its been amply demonstrated that you can run a very profitable, expensive law school with mediocre placement. It's true that they could assemble a self-selected group of faculty who care very much about getting their students placed. But knowing what I know about law professors, I wouldn't bet 200K on it.

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gitguy
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby gitguy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:13 pm

sinfiery wrote:You had no chance when you added "would you do it?" to the tittle.

What job are you leaving and why?

If you are PI focused and will rely on PSLF or LRAP, I don't think it's the end of the world...depending on how easy it is to get a job that qualifies for each of these from UCI.

Have you done that research? Please do so and report back here.


I think the title fostered the brand of honesty I was looking for. I'm leaving my position of 3 years as a clerk in a small but fast-paced law firm. I have a lot of work experience. I feel relatively confident that I could find a PI job that would pay me $80K or less, if that's not even possible then I should just kill myself now.

Ti Malice
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:55 pm

gitguy wrote:ASW solidified their position as my top choice.


ASW is just an interactive infomercial. You should be strongly skeptical that anything about UCI is as rosy as someone affiliated with UCI told you.

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gitguy
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby gitguy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:33 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
gitguy wrote:ASW solidified their position as my top choice.


ASW is just an interactive infomercial. You should be strongly skeptical that anything about UCI is as rosy as someone affiliated with UCI told you.


Of course, it was actually the hookers and blow that really got me. Anything else obvious/condescending to add?

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hephaestus
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby hephaestus » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:35 pm

Golden Bear 11 wrote:plugged into the georgetown calculator

OP would owe 215K at repayment. Even if he got a 2L SA, it wouldn't change the amount of debt since OP would probably lose the need based grant for 3L.

Retake and apply more broadly next cycle

That's insanity for UCI. Or really any non-T14

Ti Malice
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:44 pm

gitguy wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
gitguy wrote:ASW solidified their position as my top choice.


ASW is just an interactive infomercial. You should be strongly skeptical that anything about UCI is as rosy as someone affiliated with UCI told you.


Of course, it was actually the hookers and blow that really got me. Anything else obvious/condescending to add?


Sure: Retake or don't go. Debt-financing UCI to the tune of $200+K is sheer idiocy.

I'm not sure obviousness is of any help to you, though.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:52 pm

Please don't do this.

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Dmini7
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby Dmini7 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:56 pm

OP, I think you can get more money, They are going to need your 165 to keep their median. What is your offer from maryland? Honestly, I would put your initial deposit down especially if it is your top choice, and then ask for more money. Basically say its your dream school, how ASW sold you, and why you would be a good fit. Explain you still can't afford attending at the price mentioned and more money can make this a very easy and quick decision. If you decide that you can't attend, then you lose 300 bucks. Oh well, it is well worth it in my opinion to at least keep your name in the running.

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hephaestus
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby hephaestus » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:04 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:Please don't do this.

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teiswei
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby teiswei » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:05 pm

gitguy wrote:UCI is my top choice. I only got $15K over three years merit award, I expect $15K in grant aid over three years (although that is very conservative based on my means, but for planning purposes let's assume that figure).

ASW solidified their position as my top choice. They have a generous LRAP program, and I do intend to pursue public interest work that would highly likely qualify on the basis of salary for full or partial reimbursement (provided, of course, I can find a government / non-profit job) over each six month period.

I was a UCI undergrad, and I live very nearby so it would serve to eliminate costs of relocating.

I just want feedback. Keep it civil (I know people get riled up over UCI), and try not to "re-take, bro" too much. Thanks!

Sent as PM

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:06 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:Please don't do this.

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worldtraveler
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:58 pm

gitguy wrote:
sinfiery wrote:You had no chance when you added "would you do it?" to the tittle.

What job are you leaving and why?

If you are PI focused and will rely on PSLF or LRAP, I don't think it's the end of the world...depending on how easy it is to get a job that qualifies for each of these from UCI.

Have you done that research? Please do so and report back here.


I think the title fostered the brand of honesty I was looking for. I'm leaving my position of 3 years as a clerk in a small but fast-paced law firm. I have a lot of work experience. I feel relatively confident that I could find a PI job that would pay me $80K or less, if that's not even possible then I should just kill myself now.


I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion. PI is hard to get. PI in Southern California is REALLY hard to get.

imjustjoking22
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby imjustjoking22 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:55 pm

Random aside...is it gitguy like this git? http://git-scm.com/

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99.9luft
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby 99.9luft » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:06 pm

given that you won't retake, i would try to negotiate to get 50k per year total if i were you.

feel free to PM me, as UCI is where i will likely end up.

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hephaestus
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby hephaestus » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:16 pm

Not retaking because of fear you may do worse is not a good reason to commit debt suicide. Schools won't care if you do worse anyway.

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Ruxin1
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby Ruxin1 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:18 pm

99.9luft wrote:given that you won't retake, i would try to negotiate to get 50k per year total if i were you.

feel free to PM me, as UCI is where i will likely end up.


150k debt :?: :arrow: :shock:

Ti Malice
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:31 pm

Ruxin1 wrote:
99.9luft wrote:given that you won't retake, i would try to negotiate to get 50k per year total if i were you.

feel free to PM me, as UCI is where i will likely end up.


150k debt :?: :arrow: :shock:


You obviously weren't at ASW, dude, so what do you know?

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99.9luft
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby 99.9luft » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:32 pm

Ruxin1 wrote:
99.9luft wrote:given that you won't retake, i would try to negotiate to get 50k per year total if i were you.

feel free to PM me, as UCI is where i will likely end up.


150k debt :?: :arrow: :shock:


telling others not to go to LS at all when they already decided to is not my style. yes, debt is hard to swallow but if one has decided to go to LS it's a risk s/he must take, it's an adult decision. 150k at UCI is better than going to Maryland. Given OP's limited options, trying to get money at UCI is the better idea, outside of not going or retaking (TCR), of course.

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99.9luft
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby 99.9luft » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:32 pm

Ti Malice wrote:You obviously weren't at ASW, dude, so what do you know?


troll better.

Ti Malice
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:47 pm


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NoodleyOne
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Re: $30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it??

Postby NoodleyOne » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:56 pm

Ti Malice wrote:Nerve struck: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=207697&p=6644113#p6644113.

Lol.




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