So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

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Money at Vandy or sticker at Georgetown

Vandy $
28
67%
Georgetown (sticker)
14
33%
 
Total votes: 42

bzzingbee
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So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby bzzingbee » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:35 am

I swore I would never come to the internet to ask advice about huge life decisions, but here I am.

Assuming I do not get off the wait list at other schools, my decision comes down to money at Vandy or sticker at Georgetown.

I think I would like to work in DC, but barring any tiny towns in the midwest I could work just about anywhere and be happy. I want to be a criminal prosecutor or work in public policy focusing on women's issues. My numbers 169/3.16, one year WE. Not retaking, because I'm ready to go to law school now (and I took it twice so I doubt my score will drastically change.)

Debt at either school (it's quite large) is 229,500 at Gtown or 159,832 at Vandy, those numbers include living expenses. I am leaning toward Georgetown because even if it is at sticker, they have a great LRAP program for public interest. I'm curious to see what all the TLSers say.

So, opinions please? Even if it's an opinion screaming at me to retake or to give up on my dreams of being an attorney, I'm still interested, so shoot!

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cinephile
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby cinephile » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:40 am

How much money is money?

Also, you should seriously retake One year work experience is nothing.

bzzingbee
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby bzzingbee » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:46 am

Money... not that much. $17,000 a year and $5,000 for a summer, which can be transferred to the second year. Either way I would have significant debt... but I want to go into the public interest so the PAYEE program/LRAP program is something I would definitely use. And I could retake but....sigh.... whine, whine, complain, complain.

20141023
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby 20141023 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:07 am

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bzzingbee
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby bzzingbee » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:10 am

kappycaft1 wrote:Although retaking might get you into more schools (better schools), your GPA is low enough that I doubt you will get much money anyway (unless you are a URM). Accordingly, I wouldn't bother retaking, especially if you don't feel like you have a lot of room to improve and have already taken the LSAT twice.

Having said that, I personally would take GULC of these two options if I was absolutely set on going to law school. (This is mainly because I don't want to live in the South, though.)


Yea, I tend to agree. I'm definitely set on law school. I know it's where I need to be, and I don't mind working my ass off (despite my GPA as evidence to the contrary) to get to where I need to be.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:35 am

I rarely ever vote in favor of GULC at sticker...but since you're set on PI and are okay with going on PAYE, i'll go with GULC here.

kappycaft1 wrote:Although retaking might get you into more schools (better schools), your GPA is low enough that I doubt you will get much money anyway (unless you are a URM). Accordingly, I wouldn't bother retaking, especially if you don't feel like you have a lot of room to improve and have already taken the LSAT twice.


+1

I had the same LSAT and slightly lower GPA last year. Re-took, got better score, and got into better schools this cycle but didn't get any money. I ended up just getting more money at the schools i got scholly from last year.

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patrickd139
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:38 am

Why does OP have to go to law school at all? Any other legitimate options?

Those seem horribly expensive, but I'm pretty debt-averse, so YMMV.

rad lulz
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:43 am

patrickd139 wrote:Why does OP have to go to law school at all? Any other legitimate options?

Those seem horribly expensive, but I'm pretty debt-averse, so YMMV.

At those prices I honestly wouldn't go, especially considering how competitive prosecution jobs are

bzzingbee
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby bzzingbee » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:44 am

patrickd139 wrote:Why does OP have to go to law school at all? Any other legitimate options?

Those seem horribly expensive, but I'm pretty debt-averse, so YMMV.


I could certainly go into another career... but I don't want to. I took this year to work at a non-profit, freelance journalism (which was my undergrad major) and work with DV victims. Hated the journalism route, was fascinated by the legal issues facing DV victims, and at my non-profit worked with legal research. I've loved every minute of it. I took several undergrad classes focused on the law and loved them, and was in mock trial as well, which (I know it's obviously very different from a legal career) I was obsessed with. Basically, I want to be a lawyer. I don't mind spending money (even money I don't have) to achieve something I'm passionate about.

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Kalinda
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby Kalinda » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:46 am

If you're dead set on Public Interest/Government, its GULC.

The LRAP program essentially will make you paying sticker a non-issue (assuming you can get a DA position, since you are not committed to any city, or region for that matter, you should have some luck).

Enjoy DC!

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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:48 am

,
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patrickd139
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:50 am

With your career aspirations, you need to go to law school where it's free. Or close to it.

If at all.

rad lulz
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:56 am

patrickd139 wrote:With your career aspirations, you need to go to law school where it's free. Or close to it.

If at all.


I mean, I might go to like Yale. I think with their LRAP you could become a vodka soaked hobo living in a ditch and they'd pay your payments

But I am insanely suspicious of any 0L who is pot committed to PI (especially after just one year of post-grad WE). I find that is rarely true.

When you're in school, and you
1) realize the magnitude of your loans, and you realize that on your PI salary, even with LRAP, you're not even hitting the principal on your massive loans, and you're gonna have to rely on 10 year loan forgiveness (which assumes you can keep a govt job for 10 years)
2) realize that big firms hire at 2L OCI whereas PI/govt it's not unusual to wait until after the bar
3) realize that PI orgs have no money,

you're at the OCI bread line with everyone else

bzzingbee
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby bzzingbee » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:08 am

rad lulz wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:With your career aspirations, you need to go to law school where it's free. Or close to it.

If at all.


I mean, I might go to like Yale. I think with their LRAP you could become a vodka soaked hobo living in a ditch and they'd pay your payments

But I am insanely suspicious of any 0L who is pot committed to PI (especially after just one year of post-grad WE). I find that is rarely true.

When you're in school, and you
1) realize the magnitude of your loans, and you realize that on your PI salary, even with LRAP, you're not even hitting the principal on your massive loans, and you're gonna have to rely on 10 year loan forgiveness (which assumes you can keep a govt job for 10 years)
2) realize that big firms hire at 2L OCI whereas PI/govt it's not unusual to wait until after the bar
3) realize that PI orgs have no money,

you're at the OCI bread line with everyone else


So... if I accept I will be poor the rest of my life... PI is a good choice? haha

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patrickd139
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:09 am

rad lulz wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:With your career aspirations, you need to go to law school where it's free. Or close to it.

If at all.


I mean, I might go to like Yale. I think with their LRAP you could become a vodka soaked hobo living in a ditch and they'd pay your payments

But I am insanely suspicious of any 0L who is pot committed to PI (especially after just one year of post-grad WE). I find that is rarely true.

When you're in school, and you
1) realize the magnitude of your loans, and you realize that on your PI salary, even with LRAP, you're not even hitting the principal on your massive loans, and you're gonna have to rely on 10 year loan forgiveness (which assumes you can keep a govt job for 10 years)
2) realize that big firms hire at 2L OCI whereas PI/govt it's not unusual to wait until after the bar
3) realize that PI orgs have no money,

you're at the OCI bread line with everyone else

Completely agree with all of this. As to the bolded, just assuming OP isn't going to hit the YLS jackpot with a 3.16 UGPA.

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patrickd139
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:10 am

bzzingbee wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:With your career aspirations, you need to go to law school where it's free. Or close to it.

If at all.


I mean, I might go to like Yale. I think with their LRAP you could become a vodka soaked hobo living in a ditch and they'd pay your payments

But I am insanely suspicious of any 0L who is pot committed to PI (especially after just one year of post-grad WE). I find that is rarely true.

When you're in school, and you
1) realize the magnitude of your loans, and you realize that on your PI salary, even with LRAP, you're not even hitting the principal on your massive loans, and you're gonna have to rely on 10 year loan forgiveness (which assumes you can keep a govt job for 10 years)
2) realize that big firms hire at 2L OCI whereas PI/govt it's not unusual to wait until after the bar
3) realize that PI orgs have no money,

you're at the OCI bread line with everyone else


So... if I accept I will be poor the rest of my life... PI is a good choice? haha

"Poor" and "soul crushing debt that leaves you with literally not enough money to eat at times" are two very, very different things.

ETA: if you go to GULC, don't make any payments on interest for the time you're in law school, and don't get LRAP of some sort, your loan payments upon graduation at the cost you're planning to pay to attend would be just north of $2,700 per month.

That's assuming a 10 year repayment. You could always run those out to 30 years at $1500 per month or so.

bzzingbee
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby bzzingbee » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:21 am

patrickd139 wrote:
bzzingbee wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:With your career aspirations, you need to go to law school where it's free. Or close to it.

If at all.


I mean, I might go to like Yale. I think with their LRAP you could become a vodka soaked hobo living in a ditch and they'd pay your payments

But I am insanely suspicious of any 0L who is pot committed to PI (especially after just one year of post-grad WE). I find that is rarely true.

When you're in school, and you
1) realize the magnitude of your loans, and you realize that on your PI salary, even with LRAP, you're not even hitting the principal on your massive loans, and you're gonna have to rely on 10 year loan forgiveness (which assumes you can keep a govt job for 10 years)
2) realize that big firms hire at 2L OCI whereas PI/govt it's not unusual to wait until after the bar
3) realize that PI orgs have no money,

you're at the OCI bread line with everyone else


So... if I accept I will be poor the rest of my life... PI is a good choice? haha

"Poor" and "soul crushing debt that leaves you with literally not enough money to eat at times" are two very, very different things.

ETA: if you go to GULC, don't make any payments on interest for the time you're in law school, and don't get LRAP of some sort, your loan payments upon graduation at the cost you're planning to pay to attend would be just north of $2,700 per month.

That's assuming a 10 year repayment. You could always run those out to 30 years at $1500 per month or so.


Right, but if I go with PAYE, get LRAP, and then practice in the PI for 10 years... my soul will not be crushed. Theoretically. I don't have the numbers on hand, but it would be significantly easier.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:23 am

bzzingbee wrote:
Right, but if I go with PAYE, get LRAP, and then practice in the PI for 10 years... my soul will not be crushed. Theoretically. I don't have the numbers on hand, but it would be significantly easier.


Looking into PAYE has made me infinitely thankful that i graduated high school in 2008..

20141023
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby 20141023 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:25 am

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bzzingbee
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby bzzingbee » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:25 am

cusenation wrote:
bzzingbee wrote:
Right, but if I go with PAYE, get LRAP, and then practice in the PI for 10 years... my soul will not be crushed. Theoretically. I don't have the numbers on hand, but it would be significantly easier.


Looking into PAYE has made me infinitely thankful that i graduated high school in 2008..


Preaching to the choir.

20141023
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby 20141023 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:26 am

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bzzingbee
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby bzzingbee » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:27 am

kappycaft1 wrote:Don't go into law school assuming that you will be able to get a PI position and therefore be able to take advantage of PSLF. Go in with the assumption that you will be making $50k working a shitty job; hope for biglaw, and pray for PI.


That's fair. I will say I have a non-compete that will carry into my 1L summer. So that may help me get a govt internship, which may help carry me into long-term employment. Maybe. But yes, I should be more pessimistic (read: realistic) about it all.

20141023
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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby 20141023 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 am

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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:32 am

kappycaft1 wrote:
bzzingbee wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:Don't go into law school assuming that you will be able to get a PI position and therefore be able to take advantage of PSLF. Go in with the assumption that you will be making $50k working a shitty job; hope for biglaw, and pray for PI.


That's fair. I will say I have a non-compete that will carry into my 1L summer. So that may help me get a govt internship, which may help carry me into long-term employment. Maybe. But yes, I should be more pessimistic (read: realistic) about it all.

lol nah you're fine... it is good to shoot for those goals; just make sure that you set a realistic financial budget. If PAYE is still around in its current form in 3 years, you might be good no matter what, but there isn't even a 100% guarantee on that either.


not to threadjack, but can they retro-actively change the terms of PAYE for people who have already started it? For example if we enter PAYE in like 2017, then they change it or get rid of it in 2020, would it affect us??

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Re: So... I swore I wouldn't make one of these:Vanderbilt v GULC

Postby howdydo » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:34 am

Do you have BIG money from any other top 25/30 Schools. Might be worth considering a near full ride at a top 25/30 so you are nearly debt free. Just food for thought.




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