Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

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txdude45
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Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby txdude45 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:14 pm

Is there any value in holding onto a $75k GULC offer in my situation? (It's only valid till 4/15)

7-13: WLs save for in at Michigan
CCN: In 2 with $, no word from the other
H: WL
S: Crickets

I'm probably withdrawing from everywhere save for the T6, but wasn't sure if I should keep the GULC offer. Does it offer any real leverage with the T6?

jym_dawg
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby jym_dawg » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:47 pm

no

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txdude45
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby txdude45 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:56 pm

jym_dawg wrote:no


thank you, that is all, lol

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jbagelboy
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:05 pm

relevant to OP and myself: how much Gtown money would be necessary to make a dent for that $30k from chicago?

and what a bizarre but otherwise awesome cycle man congrats.

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izy223
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby izy223 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:09 pm

txdude45 wrote:Is there any value in holding onto a $75k GULC offer in my situation? (It's only valid till 4/15)

7-13: WLs save for in at Michigan
CCN: In 2 with $, no word from the other
H: WL
S: Crickets

I'm probably withdrawing from everywhere save for the T6, but wasn't sure if I should keep the GULC offer. Does it offer any real leverage with the T6?



had the exact same cycle as you and NYU loled at Gtown and NU money (and NU threw me some good money off the WL)

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby NoodleyOne » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:15 pm

CCN I believe scoffs at offers from lower schools. I don't know how they look at Virginia or Penn, but it seems like lower than that they just don't care.

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sinfiery
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby sinfiery » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:18 pm

NoodleyOne wrote:CCN I believe scoffs at offers from lower schools. I don't know how they look at Virginia or Penn, but it seems like lower than that they just don't care.

NYU totally scoffed at UVA when I tried

Real Madrid
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby Real Madrid » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:33 pm

sinfiery wrote:NYU totally scoffed at UVA when I tried


lol

NYU thinks they're on the CC level but actual employment prospects put them in line with MVPBDNC.

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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby Real Madrid » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:37 pm

NoodleyOne wrote:CCN I believe scoffs at offers from lower schools. I don't know how they look at Virginia or Penn, but it seems like lower than that they just don't care.


If they "scoff at lower schools," why would Virginia or Penn be any different?

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:40 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
NoodleyOne wrote:CCN I believe scoffs at offers from lower schools. I don't know how they look at Virginia or Penn, but it seems like lower than that they just don't care.


If they "scoff at lower schools," why would Virginia or Penn be any different?


Penn is going to someday be more well regarded than NYU by most people. You heard it here first. I have never cared for either one very much, but I am warming up to Penn.

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sinfiery
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby sinfiery » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:46 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:Penn is going to someday be more well regarded than NYU by most people. You heard it here first. I have never cared for either one very much, but I am warming up to Penn.


I don't see it happening. In fact, I'm calling UVA #7 and Penn #8 next year on USNWR

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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby Real Madrid » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:51 pm

sinfiery wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:Penn is going to someday be more well regarded than NYU by most people. You heard it here first. I have never cared for either one very much, but I am warming up to Penn.


I don't see it happening. In fact, I'm calling UVA #7 and Penn #8 next year on USNWR


While I'd actually love to see this happen (to see the shitstorm on TLS), I think you're confusing USNWR with reputations held by the people that actually matter (i.e. law firms and prospective students). Penn has long surpassed UVA in both metrics (and arguably NYU in the law firm one).

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Justin Genious
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby Justin Genious » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:54 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
sinfiery wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:Penn is going to someday be more well regarded than NYU by most people. You heard it here first. I have never cared for either one very much, but I am warming up to Penn.


I don't see it happening. In fact, I'm calling UVA #7 and Penn #8 next year on USNWR


While I'd actually love to see this happen (to see the shitstorm on TLS), I think you're confusing USNWR with reputations held by the people that actually matter (i.e. law firms and prospective students). Penn has long surpassed UVA in both metrics (and arguably NYU in the law firm one).

source?

Real Madrid
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby Real Madrid » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:55 pm

Justin Genious wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
sinfiery wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:Penn is going to someday be more well regarded than NYU by most people. You heard it here first. I have never cared for either one very much, but I am warming up to Penn.


I don't see it happening. In fact, I'm calling UVA #7 and Penn #8 next year on USNWR


While I'd actually love to see this happen (to see the shitstorm on TLS), I think you're confusing USNWR with reputations held by the people that actually matter (i.e. law firms and prospective students). Penn has long surpassed UVA in both metrics (and arguably NYU in the law firm one).

source?


NLJ numbers for any of the past four years (read: law firms) or virtually any thread comparing UVA and Penn on this forum (read: prospective students)? Will that do?

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sinfiery
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby sinfiery » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:57 pm

No, not even close.


Pretty sure when considering the people that actually matter (Lawyers), it's still HYS CCNM

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Justin Genious
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby Justin Genious » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:58 pm

Real Madrid wrote:NLJ numbers for any of the past four years (read: law firms) or virtually any thread comparing UVA and Penn on this forum (read: prospective students)? Will that do?

read: reputations = NLJ stats (Cornell > Yale), prospective students? No.

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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby Real Madrid » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:02 pm

Justin Genious wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:NLJ numbers for any of the past four years (read: law firms) or virtually any thread comparing UVA and Penn on this forum (read: prospective students)? Will that do?

read: reputations = NLJ stats (Cornell > Yale), prospective students? No.


Yale had how many federal clerks? Yeah, that's what I thought. Let's not compare Yale and UVA.

And yes, a forum entitled "Choosing a law school" is mostly aimed at - wait for it - prospective law students. And with even minimal research, Mr. "Genious," you'd realize that a sizeable chunk of the posters in those threads are - wait for it - prospective law students as well.

Real Madrid
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby Real Madrid » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:05 pm

sinfiery wrote:No, not even close.


Pretty sure when considering the people that actually matter (Lawyers), it's still HYS CCNM


lol what? Why would the "lawyers/judges" score from USNWR matter (for anything other than USNWR ranking) when Penn is consistently ranked at the bottom of the T14 in that measure yet regularly places near the top when it comes to actual employment? And the opposite can be said of Michigan. Either the people in position to make hires aren't being surveyed (or aren't responding to surveys) or they're just flat-out lying and hiring more from schools that they supposedly have less respect for.

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sinfiery
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby sinfiery » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:08 pm

I'm confused why you picked the word reputations when you are backing everything up from NLJ250+A3 clerkship employment statistics?


Based on your definition of reputation, Penn has the best reputation of any school in the country.
Do you stand by this or do you change your definition?
Last edited by sinfiery on Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:09 pm

sinfiery wrote:No, not even close.

Pretty sure when considering the people that actually matter (Lawyers), it's still HYS CCNM


In recent years, Michigan seems to be falling off a cliff. I have always loved Michigan, but attending that school would give me serious anxiety. No one wants to go to a sinking ship.

Duke seems to be Creepin on Ah Come Up kinda like that groundbreaking, genre defining first album by Bone Thugs-N-Harmony that sold millions upon millions of albums worldwide. It included the hit singles Thuggish Ruggish Bone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0PB4o9GH2A) and Foe the Love of Money (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtsKcHmceqY).

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Justin Genious
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby Justin Genious » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:10 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
Justin Genious wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:NLJ numbers for any of the past four years (read: law firms) or virtually any thread comparing UVA and Penn on this forum (read: prospective students)? Will that do?

read: reputations = NLJ stats (Cornell > Yale), prospective students? No.


Yale had how many federal clerks? Yeah, that's what I thought. Let's not compare Yale and UVA.

And yes, a forum entitled "Choosing a law school" is mostly aimed at - wait for it - prospective law students. And with even minimal research, Mr. "Genious," you'd realize that a sizeable chunk of the posters in those threads are - wait for it - prospective law students as well.

+1, way to understand my point!

You backed "reputations held by the people that actually matter" with NLJ stats and prospective students. I guess I should network with 0L's when I get to my 2/3L year since they are the ones making the big decisions.

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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby Real Madrid » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:15 pm

sinfiery wrote:I'm confused why you picked the world reputations when you are backing everything up from NLJ250+A3 clerkship employment statistics?


Based on your definition of reputation, Penn has the best reputation of any school in the country.
Do you stand by this or do you change your definition?


No, I think - as does most everyone here - that YHS have the best reputations, though their students often don't pursue big law jobs. My point is that the two groups whose opinions matter the most are prospective students (they keep the the school in business) and employers (who obviously entice the students to attend in the first place). Then you alluded (presumably) to the lawyers/judges score from USNWR as if it were a proxy for employers, but the fact that a school like Michigan is ranked so high despite placing so relatively poorly and Penn is ranked so low despite performing arguably the best among non-HYS schools (to take two examples) tells me that those aren't the same "employers" I'm talking about.

Real Madrid
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby Real Madrid » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:18 pm

Justin Genious wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
Justin Genious wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:NLJ numbers for any of the past four years (read: law firms) or virtually any thread comparing UVA and Penn on this forum (read: prospective students)? Will that do?

read: reputations = NLJ stats (Cornell > Yale), prospective students? No.


Yale had how many federal clerks? Yeah, that's what I thought. Let's not compare Yale and UVA.

And yes, a forum entitled "Choosing a law school" is mostly aimed at - wait for it - prospective law students. And with even minimal research, Mr. "Genious," you'd realize that a sizeable chunk of the posters in those threads are - wait for it - prospective law students as well.

+1, way to understand my point!

You backed "reputations held by the people that actually matter" with NLJ stats and prospective students. I guess I should network with 0L's when I get to my 2/3L year since they are the ones making the big decisions.


You wrote your "point" in math equation format, so I guess you really only have yourself to blame.

And yes, I'd argue that the opinions of prospective students do indeed matter to law schools. That's where the money comes from, after all. :roll:

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sinfiery
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby sinfiery » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:20 pm

First, the best gauge of the students belief in the reputations of the schools is largely based on who actually chooses to end up attending these schools. The best way we, on TLS, gauge the quality of these students is through their GPA and LSAT.

So based on that metric, prospective students actually don't think very much of UPenn.


Next, if that is how you judge outcomes, you cannot say UPenn is arguably second best only to HYS. Either they are better than HYS by a significant margin and are the best school in the country or there is something that you aren't accounting for in your metric that you must extrapolate.

Real Madrid
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Re: Keep GULC $$ for leverage with T6?

Postby Real Madrid » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:36 pm

sinfiery wrote:First, the best gauge of the students belief in the reputations of the schools is largely based on who actually chooses to end up attending these schools. The best way we, on TLS, gauge the quality of these students is through their GPA and LSAT.

So based on that metric, prospective students actually don't think very much of UPenn.


This is a complete non-sequitur.

Next, if that is how you judge outcomes, you cannot say UPenn is arguably second best only to HYS. Either they are better than HYS by a significant margin and are the best school in the country or there is something that you aren't accounting for in your metric that you must extrapolate.


And this is a straw man, as this is not at all the point that I made. Nevertheless, I'll briefly address it:

There is no denying that Penn has been the best school (stats-wise) for placing into big law the last few years. Numbers don't lie. But they don't always tell the whole truth. While I don't have data to back up this claim (nor, I assume, does anyone else on TLS that makes it), I do tend to believe that a significant number of YHS grads go into prestigious jobs that are generally not easily accessible to non YHS grads. I do not think a significant number of UVA grads are going into those same jobs. Feel free to dispute that if you wish.




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