USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

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USC (40k) vs UCI (45k)

USC (40k)
77
80%
UCI (45k)
19
20%
 
Total votes: 96

rad lulz
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:50 am

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:24 am

rad lulz wrote:OP, CA DA and PDs are broke as shit


This.

Also, UCI is moving in a good direction but it's a risky gamble to make considering you have USC on the table. No one knows how UCI's increasing class size will impact placement.

BigZuck
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:36 am

cusenation wrote:
rad lulz wrote:OP, CA DA and PDs are broke as shit


This.

Also, UCI is moving in a good direction but it's a risky gamble to make considering you have USC on the table. No one knows how UCI's increasing class size will impact placement.


But I have some theories :)

BruCam
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby BruCam » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:54 am

rad lulz wrote:OP, CA DA and PDs are broke as shit



This as well. Need to put myself in the best possible situation in case plans A-D don't work out.

Was already leaning heavily, just wanted other opinions.

Golden Bear 11
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby Golden Bear 11 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:03 pm

just curious, what other options do you have? URM with 167...no T-14s?

bchirco
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby bchirco » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:13 pm

I felt the need to chime in here as I am a SoCal native and have worked in a SoCal firm as a clerk for a couple of years. Make no mistake I LIKE UCI. That being said USC and UCI are not even close in levels.

LST is misleading of UCI's information, USC is so far ahead of UCI in the hiring game it shouldn't even be a considered in the same sentence. Do NOT take rank into account. Take facts. USC has one of the strongest alumni networks on the planet...ON THE PLANET. If this were UCLA vs USC, that would be understandable. Look at the information before you, there employment numbers are rosy due to their low inaugural class size. There is no way they are going to maintain those numbers when they grow with how many SoCal law schools there are. Also, almost EVERY law school has great faculty, seriously look at the professors at schools like USD or Hastings. UCI isn't even considered a top tier UC what makes you think it is going to compete with USC/UCLA for LAW? A game that USC/UCLA has been playing for a lonnngggg time.

Again, I am not a UCI hater and I even toyed with the thought of attending, however USC>UCI always. It is a fact. If you choose UCI, you may get a stellar legal education, but you will soon regret not taking that SC offer.

Personally if it was me, if you are URM retake for a 170+ and go to a T14 on scholarship.

BruCam
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby BruCam » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:29 pm

Golden Bear 11 wrote:just curious, what other options do you have? URM with 167...no T-14s?



I never really wanted to leave the area, got dinged at cal tho.

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jbagelboy
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:35 pm

usc still not the safest bet either way, by this metric arguably "riskiest" among the T25

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... nk/274795/

but what can you do when the market is crap.

leagle1
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby leagle1 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:18 pm

bchirco wrote:USC and UCI are not even close in levels.

LST is misleading of UCI's information, USC is so far ahead of UCI in the hiring game it shouldn't even be a considered in the same sentence. Do NOT take rank into account. Take facts. USC has one of the strongest alumni networks on the planet...ON THE PLANET. UCI isn't even considered a top tier UC what makes you think it is going to compete with USC/UCLA for LAW? A game that USC/UCLA has been playing for a lonnngggg time.


Well that's funny because I don't see UCLA or USC on this list: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2595075640

I do see UCI though. But I guess the ranking of "Law Schools with the Highest Placement Rate in Full-Time, Long-Term Legal Jobs" is uninformative as to where UCI is in "the hiring game".

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Micdiddy
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby Micdiddy » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:24 pm

leagle1 wrote:
bchirco wrote:USC and UCI are not even close in levels.

LST is misleading of UCI's information, USC is so far ahead of UCI in the hiring game it shouldn't even be a considered in the same sentence. Do NOT take rank into account. Take facts. USC has one of the strongest alumni networks on the planet...ON THE PLANET. UCI isn't even considered a top tier UC what makes you think it is going to compete with USC/UCLA for LAW? A game that USC/UCLA has been playing for a lonnngggg time.


Well that's funny because I don't see UCLA or USC on this list: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2595075640

I do see UCI though. But I guess the ranking of "Law Schools with the Highest Placement Rate in Full-Time, Long-Term Legal Jobs" is uninformative as to where UCI is in "the hiring game".


Uh, yes it is. You must know why, you are trying to ignore the most glaring argument against your case. This is habit you should dispose of before law school.

BigZuck
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby BigZuck » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:33 pm

leagle1 wrote:
bchirco wrote:USC and UCI are not even close in levels.

LST is misleading of UCI's information, USC is so far ahead of UCI in the hiring game it shouldn't even be a considered in the same sentence. Do NOT take rank into account. Take facts. USC has one of the strongest alumni networks on the planet...ON THE PLANET. UCI isn't even considered a top tier UC what makes you think it is going to compete with USC/UCLA for LAW? A game that USC/UCLA has been playing for a lonnngggg time.


Well that's funny because I don't see UCLA or USC on this list: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2595075640

I do see UCI though. But I guess the ranking of "Law Schools with the Highest Placement Rate in Full-Time, Long-Term Legal Jobs" is uninformative as to where UCI is in "the hiring game".


Lol @ UCI for failing to place 9 kids out of a class that's only 56 total

leagle1
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby leagle1 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:33 pm

Micdiddy wrote:
Uh, yes it is. You must know why, you are trying to ignore the most glaring argument against your case. This is habit you should dispose of before law school.


If you are seeing UCLA/USC in the list I linked to, you have bigger problems than your legal career. Also, I'm not sure why you would make the (false) assumption that I have not started law school yet.

The speculative arguments against UCI (that they are only doing well because of the small first class size, that the first class was "special", and that they recieved non-repeatable special help) do not outweigh the probative value of the FACT that UCI was in the top ten of ALL schools nationally in terms of Full-Time, Long-Term Legal Job placement. There are plenty of other new schools with small classes out there, they don't tend to beat out T-14 schools in job rankings...

I can't wait to see what the excuses will be next year when UCI again beats USC/UCLA in job placement. In my opinion there are a lot of sour grapes in TLS.

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Lasers
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby Lasers » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:36 pm

Micdiddy wrote:
leagle1 wrote:
bchirco wrote:USC and UCI are not even close in levels.

LST is misleading of UCI's information, USC is so far ahead of UCI in the hiring game it shouldn't even be a considered in the same sentence. Do NOT take rank into account. Take facts. USC has one of the strongest alumni networks on the planet...ON THE PLANET. UCI isn't even considered a top tier UC what makes you think it is going to compete with USC/UCLA for LAW? A game that USC/UCLA has been playing for a lonnngggg time.


Well that's funny because I don't see UCLA or USC on this list: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2595075640

I do see UCI though. But I guess the ranking of "Law Schools with the Highest Placement Rate in Full-Time, Long-Term Legal Jobs" is uninformative as to where UCI is in "the hiring game".


Uh, yes it is. You must know why, you are trying to ignore the most glaring argument against your case. This is habit you should dispose of before law school.

lol.

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99.9luft
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby 99.9luft » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:38 pm

BigZuck wrote:
leagle1 wrote:
bchirco wrote:USC and UCI are not even close in levels.

LST is misleading of UCI's information, USC is so far ahead of UCI in the hiring game it shouldn't even be a considered in the same sentence. Do NOT take rank into account. Take facts. USC has one of the strongest alumni networks on the planet...ON THE PLANET. UCI isn't even considered a top tier UC what makes you think it is going to compete with USC/UCLA for LAW? A game that USC/UCLA has been playing for a lonnngggg time.


Well that's funny because I don't see UCLA or USC on this list: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2595075640

I do see UCI though. But I guess the ranking of "Law Schools with the Highest Placement Rate in Full-Time, Long-Term Legal Jobs" is uninformative as to where UCI is in "the hiring game".


Lol @ UCI for failing to place 9 kids out of a class that's only 56 total


IIRC, 2-3 got jobs right after the data was sent to ABA, 2 are getting graduate degrees (i.e. didn't look for law jobs), and 1 didn't take the june bar because of a medical emergency ( s/he just took the feb '13 bar). One of the current UCI students broke it all down in one of these TLS threads and it was confirmed by the admission office.

leagle1
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby leagle1 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:43 pm

99.9luft wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
leagle1 wrote:
bchirco wrote:USC and UCI are not even close in levels.

LST is misleading of UCI's information, USC is so far ahead of UCI in the hiring game it shouldn't even be a considered in the same sentence. Do NOT take rank into account. Take facts. USC has one of the strongest alumni networks on the planet...ON THE PLANET. UCI isn't even considered a top tier UC what makes you think it is going to compete with USC/UCLA for LAW? A game that USC/UCLA has been playing for a lonnngggg time.


Well that's funny because I don't see UCLA or USC on this list: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2595075640

I do see UCI though. But I guess the ranking of "Law Schools with the Highest Placement Rate in Full-Time, Long-Term Legal Jobs" is uninformative as to where UCI is in "the hiring game".


Lol @ UCI for failing to place 9 kids out of a class that's only 56 total


IIRC, 2-3 got jobs right after the data was sent to ABA, 2 are getting graduate degrees (i.e. didn't look for law jobs), and 1 didn't take the june bar because of a medical emergency ( s/he just took the feb '13 bar). One of the current UCI students broke it all down in one of these TLS threads and it was confirmed by the admission office.



It also isn't counting people who were still in full time academics (PhD/MBA programs), but I think we have to assume there are similar issues at all schools, and that the per capita job acquisition percentage is a fair indication of hiring.

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hephaestus
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby hephaestus » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:49 pm

1 year of data is not a trend. Go to USC.

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99.9luft
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby 99.9luft » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:59 pm

ImNoScar wrote:1 year of data is not a trend. Go to USC.


2 years of data is not a trend either, fwiw. However, the data for this year's graduating class (80+ ppl) is pretty similar (source: current 3Ls and school staff).

doesn't matter though, after this larger class gets stellar employment data, i am sure TLS will find a way to hate on it too (e.g. "it's only 80 people, that is so TTT and unscalable" or "their 120 ppl class will be the next Hastings and Davis!" )

:lol:

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sinfiery
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby sinfiery » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:06 pm

obviously we will be skeptical to take a bet on an institution that is increasing their class size. if UCI keeps a class size of 120 forever and they have good employment numbers for a class size of 120, you can start defending them. Until that moment, there is a huge amount of risk that isn't present in this persons opportunity cost and thus it makes no sense to take on UCI as far as I am concerned

leagle1
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby leagle1 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:12 pm

sinfiery wrote:obviously we will be skeptical to take a bet on an institution that is increasing their class size. if UCI keeps a class size of 120 forever and they have good employment numbers for a class size of 120, you can start defending them. Until that moment, there is a huge amount of risk that isn't present in this persons opportunity cost and thus it makes no sense to take on UCI as far as I am concerned


Actually I can start "defending" them right now based on the fact that firms seem to have no problem hiring UCI grads, and there is no reason other than pure speculation to believe that with a larger number of UCI grads that fact will suddenly change.

bennettattack
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby bennettattack » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:12 pm

FWIW, I chose UCI over USC and am very happy about that decision. I'm in the c/o 2014 (3rd class at UCI) and got a job.

That being said, I think that in this economy, you need good grades, prior work history, and a diverse resume to be super successful in the job market. If you are straight through undergrad and have a thin resume, you are going to struggle regardless where you go (unless you're in a T8 thru T10 school). If you have the creds to get a job, you'll get one at either school.

HOWEVER: UCI's small class sizes and faculty that is SUPER invested in your success does go a long way. USC and its professors still have that name regardless if you get a job, but at UCI, you get loads of support. At the end of the day, that support makes a HUGE difference. Plus, UCI has made excellent inroads in the nonprofit (Skadden fellows), government (District Attorney's Office fellowships), clerkship (everywhere), and big law (also everywhere) markets and we're growing. We are still new and shiny and that gives you an opportunity to capitalize.

Plus, the feel of the schools is completely different. If USC really does speak to you as a student, go there. You probably wouldn't be happy at UCI anyway.
Last edited by bennettattack on Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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99.9luft
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby 99.9luft » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:15 pm

sinfiery wrote:obviously we will be skeptical to take a bet on an institution that is increasing their class size. if UCI keeps a class size of 120 forever and they have good employment numbers for a class size of 120, you can start defending them. Until that moment, there is a huge amount of risk that isn't present in this persons opportunity cost and thus it makes no sense to take on UCI as far as I am concerned


what's up, Sin! :D good to "hear" from you.

No, i totally agree. I wasn't talking about this OP (after the OP clarified some points, i voted for USC in the poll).

I was explaining the inaugural class's employment data (often not known here on TLS). This August 2016 class will be 120 and they will scale it slowly, from what they said. Meaning, they will not be at 180 ppl per class until at least 2018-2020, from what many of us asked them. In the next 5 years, it will increase slowly. The incoming class of 2017, for example, will be around 120-130 again, just like this year's.

They are not morons - they realize that having awesome employment data is achievable easier with a 120 person class than with 150 (at least until UCI expands its alumni network, becomes more known, better ranked). From multiple interactions with students, faculty, and staff, they are in no rush whatsoever to equal USC's class size (their projected ceiling).

bennettattack
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby bennettattack » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:17 pm

Also, if you have questions about UCI you can PM me.

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aarias11
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby aarias11 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:26 pm

I THINK EVERYONE SHOULD POST WHAT SCHOOL THEY ATTEND BEFORE THEY BEGIN THEIR POST. That would probably simplify things a bit.

bchirco
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby bchirco » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:30 pm

leagle1 wrote:
bchirco wrote:USC and UCI are not even close in levels.

LST is misleading of UCI's information, USC is so far ahead of UCI in the hiring game it shouldn't even be a considered in the same sentence. Do NOT take rank into account. Take facts. USC has one of the strongest alumni networks on the planet...ON THE PLANET. UCI isn't even considered a top tier UC what makes you think it is going to compete with USC/UCLA for LAW? A game that USC/UCLA has been playing for a lonnngggg time.


Well that's funny because I don't see UCLA or USC on this list: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2595075640

I do see UCI though. But I guess the ranking of "Law Schools with the Highest Placement Rate in Full-Time, Long-Term Legal Jobs" is uninformative as to where UCI is in "the hiring game".


You're right UCI > Yale.

Seriously though, that is NOT indicative of future success by any means. 47 students? You are comparing USC to UCI based off of their 47 out of 56 students that got a job? Are you not from SoCal? If so, have you worked in a SoCal law firm?

Do you honestly think that when UCI is turning out 180 JDs a year that people are going to prefer them over USC?

Again, I'm trying to knock on UCI, I even went to a UC for ugrad, but lets be honest here...a NEW law school in an overly saturated market with two very SUCCESSFUL law schools down the street. I'm sure UCI will make a fine name for itself, but it is not (at least right now) ANYWHERE near USC.

I'm guessing this will be the new SoCal LS hierarchy UCLA>USC>UCI>Loyola>other

ihearttonka
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Re: USC (40k) vs UCI (45k) per year scholly

Postby ihearttonka » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:31 pm

bennettattack wrote:FWIW, I chose UCI over USC and am very happy about that decision. I'm in the c/o 2014 (3rd class at UCI) and got FOUR job offers out of OCI. I know excellent USC current 3Ls still looking.

That being said, I think that in this economy, you need good grades, prior work history, and a diverse resume to be super successful in the job market. If you are straight through undergrad and have a thin resume, you are going to struggle regardless where you go (unless you're in a T8 thru T10 school). If you have the creds to get a job, you'll get one at either school.

HOWEVER: UCI's small class sizes and faculty that is SUPER invested in your success does go a long way. USC and its professors still have that name regardless if you get a job, but at UCI, you get loads of support. At the end of the day, that support makes a HUGE difference. Plus, UCI has made excellent inroads in the nonprofit (Skadden fellows), government (District Attorney's Office fellowships), clerkship (everywhere), and big law (also everywhere) markets and we're growing. We are still new and shiny and that gives you an opportunity to capitalize.

Plus, the feel of the schools is completely different. If USC really does speak to you as a student, go there. You probably wouldn't be happy at UCI anyway.


The biggest secret to UCI's success is that we are all happy to be here. If you don't feel that way, there is no use arguing about it. Please attend USC. It will most likely suit you better.




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