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(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
20141023
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Postby 20141023 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:41 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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stuckinthemiddle
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby stuckinthemiddle » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:47 pm

West Virginia University? How? :?

Another great chart from you, by the way. Your contributions have been invaluable for me this cycle. :D

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LSATSCORES2012
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby LSATSCORES2012 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:49 pm

stuckinthemiddle wrote:Another great chart from you, by the way.

+1

We should have a whole board dedicated to "kappycaft1's Charts" :D

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Samara
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby Samara » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:51 pm

What is this chart supposed to show? It seems to be basically cost divided by job prospects, but in the roughest possible way.

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Clearly
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby Clearly » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:52 pm

You should be a statistician, not in law! Thanks as always for the awesome stuff.

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jbagelboy
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:56 pm

Lol thanks kappycaft1 -- great work. this will serve will for the uber-cost sensitive TLS'ers among us, although personally I'd always pay a little more for a better shot.

Also, lol @ west virginia in-state being the most cost-effective school. New TLS standard should be "ED WUVA" in lieu of "ED UVA"

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sinfiery
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby sinfiery » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:02 pm

seriously so much respect gained for WVU

but I think the data is wrong on 250-500 placement figures for WVU

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=wvu&show=ABA

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stuckinthemiddle
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby stuckinthemiddle » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:18 pm

Samara wrote:What is this chart supposed to show? It seems to be basically cost divided by job prospects, but in the roughest possible way.


It can help you decide between competing offers from different tiered schools (I think). Like it would make the question of how much more a school like Columbia should cost over Fordham much easier to answer.

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Samara
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby Samara » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:31 pm

stuckinthemiddle wrote:
Samara wrote:What is this chart supposed to show? It seems to be basically cost divided by job prospects, but in the roughest possible way.


It can help you decide between competing offers from different tiered schools (I think). Like it would make the question of how much more a school like Columbia should cost over Fordham much easier to answer.

For that, you would want to look at the expected value of each school, not the existing tuition costs.

Assume, for ease of calculation, $160k for biglaw + clerkship and $30k for not that.
Columbia's expected value is then $160k * .65 + $30k * .35 = $114.5k
Fordham expected is then $160k * .33 + $30k * .67 = $72.9k

So, if you were looking at just the expected value of your first year of income, Columbia would be worth $41.6k. Of course, you want to actually look at the expected value of your entire career, which quickly makes Columbia at sticker a better option than Fordham for no cost. In fact, even not assuming income increases, it would only take about five years.

20141023
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby 20141023 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:37 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

20141023
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby 20141023 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:44 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RELIC
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby RELIC » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:45 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:I just got done making this, which shows how much students are effectively paying for each % of a chance at biglaw or federal clerkships.

By the way... lol @ the University of Phoenix, which essentially costs $71,554.73 per 1% chance of either of these outcomes.

FYI: Phoenix School of Law is not associated with the University of Phoenix. They just share the same city in their name. I can't decide which is hurting the other's reputation more.

20141023
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby 20141023 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:47 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:17 am

These kind of work ups rly do put rankings in perspective. Minnesota for example is not an economical option out of state even tho it consistently pushed T20. Im surprised how low they fall here.

kappycaft1, any idea why I get the general sense that TLSers like to diminish Columbia's value even though this formula + your bar chart make it appear statistically extremely desirable? Or am I crazy and this perception is false.

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RELIC
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby RELIC » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:26 am

LOL at Arizona State

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togepi
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby togepi » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:42 am

Never thanked you earlier, but I appreciate all the data you have put up kappycaft1.

You should add little side notes next to some of the schools like "You have a better chance of blah blah blah."

wannabelawstudent
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby wannabelawstudent » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:47 am

kappycaft1 wrote:
RELIC wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:I just got done making this, which shows how much students are effectively paying for each % of a chance at biglaw or federal clerkships.

By the way... lol @ the University of Phoenix, which essentially costs $71,554.73 per 1% chance of either of these outcomes.

FYI: Phoenix School of Law is not associated with the University of Phoenix. They just share the same city in their name. I can't decide which is hurting the other's reputation more.

Oh wow I didn't even know that.... I just assumed from its shitty numbers that it was the same thing. :lol:

I got quite a few "please apply here" materials from them and about half of them come with a "This is Phoenix School of Law we are not associated with The University of Phoenix" displayed clearly at the bottom

20141023
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby 20141023 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:13 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Balthy
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby Balthy » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:13 am

Great idea. Thanks, you're awesome.

SportsFan
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby SportsFan » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:38 am

Surprised how good UGA in-state is. Theoretically a better value than Columbia. Interesting.

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North
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby North » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:43 am

Reg can you make a compendium of all the awesome things you've made? I bet it'd be worth a sticky.

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RetakeFrenzy
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby RetakeFrenzy » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:57 am

This is interesting. Thank you! :D

One suggestion: What do you think about adding a column that uses COA instead of tuition as the denominator?

20141023
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby 20141023 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:01 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

StarJammer
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby StarJammer » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:10 am

This is great. Thanks!

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Rlabo
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Re: $ per % of BigLaw + Federal Clerkship

Postby Rlabo » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:16 am

kappycaft1 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:kappycaft1, any idea why I get the general sense that TLSers like to diminish Columbia's value even though this formula + your bar chart make it appear statistically extremely desirable? Or am I crazy and this perception is false.

Columbia is indeed interesting. Part of the reason, which isn't taken into account in the linked spreadsheet, is the cost of living. Columbia probably has the highest CoL of all other non-NYC law schools.

Also, it is basically right there on the verge of HYS, so despite it being an absolutely stellar institution, there is always the sentiment of "retake for a couple more points and go to HYS." (I would personally pay sticker to go there, but that's just me.)


It's also probably the cheapest COL of NYC schools since they subsidize housing which, to my knowledge, is the only nyc school who does this. Also, is it much higher than other big city schools E.G. NU, UCLA etc?




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