BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

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BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

BC
3
23%
BU
8
62%
W&M
1
8%
Suffolk
1
8%
 
Total votes: 13

upandup
Posts: 51
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BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby upandup » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:54 pm

I'm hoping you guys can shed a little insight on how you might approach the particular situation that I'm in. I've narrowed my school list down to four options: BC, BU, Suffolk and W&M. Total CoA for each, after scholarships, and including interest, tuition increases and CoL, is 97K for BC, 92K for BU, 57K for W&M and 30K for Suffolk. These figures include ballparked numbers for salary earned this upcoming summer and during 2L and 3L years (it should be relatively easy to make 10K (W&M) or 15K (Boston schools) working a couple of nights a week in restaurants during those years). There are also some decent outside scholarships that I would have a good chance at during each year of school. My numbers are 165/3.91.

I'm currently trying to negotiate with BC and BU to get those two schools to increase my scholarship offer. W&M increased mine to 31K a couple of weeks ago, and I'm waiting to hear back from BC and BU. Their initial offers are 25K (BC) and 27K (BU). I'm also keeping a full scholarship to Suffolk on the table as well. BC and BU both have deposit deadlines of April 15, so I'm pretty resigned to putting deposits at both schools (especially if I don't hear answers before the deadline). W&M's deadline is May 1.

My situation is fortunate in that I have a job at (very) small but established family firm in the Boston area upon graduation if I should so choose. Although I'm not entirely sold that I would want to move home right away (though I do want to stay in the Boston area), it is, of course, comforting knowing that I have that to fall back on if nothing else and I enjoyed myself when I interned there for the better part of a year. My ideal situation would mostly be to make BigLaw, work for 3-5 years to pay off loans/gain experience/get ahead, then head back home to a smaller/less hectic/more family-friendly work environment and schedule. Knowing that I have this to fall back on is the main reason why I have kept the Suffolk offer on the table, especially considering that it does have a fairly good reputation in the Boston area with a good alumni network.

I understand that W&M doesn't have nearly any kind of pull in Boston that BC or BU would. But, would a 40K difference in CoA be enough to sway you down south? I'm really tempted to go for it, just as I'm tempted to go to Suffolk with a full ride on the table.

And first thing's first, I imagine that I have no choice but to put down seat deposits at both BU and BC by the 15th, right?

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
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Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:01 pm

If you've taken the LSAT only once, then consider retaking to expand your options. Otherwise, the choice seems to be bewtween BU & BC if you want Boston biglaw.

upandup
Posts: 51
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Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby upandup » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:08 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:If you've taken the LSAT only once, then consider retaking to expand your options. Otherwise, the choice seems to be bewtween BU & BC if you want Boston biglaw.


I've taken it three times. Sorry, meant to put that in there originally.

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romothesavior
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Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby romothesavior » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:41 pm

For clarification, when you say "COA = X, which takes into account salary for this summer and the school years," what you're really saying is "COA - all this extra money." So in reality, BU/BC is going to cost you at least 110k, and your total debt will be more in the 90kish range?

I'd still say BU/BC wins this easily. Probably BU since their biglaw/clerkship placement is better and it's a little cheaper. That's not a crazy price tag or anything and they're by far the best schools on your list.

upandup
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Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby upandup » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:53 pm

romothesavior wrote:For clarification, when you say "COA = X, which takes into account salary for this summer and the school years," what you're really saying is "COA - all this extra money." So in reality, BU/BC is going to cost you at least 110k, and your total debt will be more in the 90kish range?

I'd still say BU/BC wins this easily. Probably BU since their biglaw/clerkship placement is better and it's a little cheaper. That's not a crazy price tag or anything and they're by far the best schools on your list.


Yes you're correct, actual CoA would be around 110K. I should have really listed those numbers as what I'd owe at graduation.

Really feel like I'm seeing a big swing in opinion from BC to BU. Aside from the most recent employment numbers, are there any other more peripheral reasons why this might be so? Rather superficially I'd note that one of the most oft-cited complaints about BU is their (lack of) campus and the old tower, but their new building will be open for the fall of 2014.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby Doorkeeper » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:08 pm

Did you apply to any T14s? LSN shows that you would have a decent shot (40-55%) at UVA, Michigan, Northwestern and Cornell with your numbers.

upandup
Posts: 51
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Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby upandup » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:18 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:Did you apply to any T14s? LSN shows that you would have a decent shot (40-55%) at UVA, Michigan, Northwestern and Cornell with your numbers.


I was waitlisted at UVA, Michigan and Northwestern, didn't apply to Cornell. The "best" schools I got into were Vandy (20K), WUSTL (25K) and USC (20K). I wouldn't want to take on that much debt to attend a T14. If I weren't to get BigLaw and went home immediately after graduation, I wouldn't feel overwhelmed paying off 90K or so but 200K would be a different matter altogether for me.

Do you think that any of those three schools' offers would help me with negotiating? I wouldn't seem to think so but curious if you think otherwise.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby Elston Gunn » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:21 pm

BU/BC are the obvious (and reasonable) choices.

empyreanrrv
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Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby empyreanrrv » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:23 pm

Negotiate BC/BU off each other and hold off for as long as possible-- hopefully one or both will throw more money at you. Like everyone else, I think BU/BC are reasonable choices. If the CoA is the same for both, visit and go to the one you like more.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby Doorkeeper » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:23 pm

upandup wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:Did you apply to any T14s? LSN shows that you would have a decent shot (40-55%) at UVA, Michigan, Northwestern and Cornell with your numbers.

I was waitlisted at UVA, Michigan and Northwestern, didn't apply to Cornell.

Good luck getting off the waitlists at those three. I wouldn't be surprised if you get off of one.

For the time being, BU.

upandup
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby upandup » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:29 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:
upandup wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:Did you apply to any T14s? LSN shows that you would have a decent shot (40-55%) at UVA, Michigan, Northwestern and Cornell with your numbers.

I was waitlisted at UVA, Michigan and Northwestern, didn't apply to Cornell.

Good luck getting off the waitlists at those three. I wouldn't be surprised if you get off of one.

For the time being, BU.


Thanks but again I really don't have any interest in attending any of those schools considering the debt that I'd be taking on. I asked about USC/WUSTL/Vandy a couple of posts above, if it's June sometime and I get off the waitlist at one of those T14s, do you think simply being accepted would be enough to sway BC or BU even if I'm not given any cash?

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hephaestus
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Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby hephaestus » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:36 pm

If you want Boston there's no reason to take W and M over the cheaper of BC/BU

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Doorkeeper
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Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby Doorkeeper » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:38 pm

upandup wrote:Thanks but again I really don't have any interest in attending any of those schools considering the debt that I'd be taking on. I asked about USC/WUSTL/Vandy a couple of posts above, if it's June sometime and I get off the waitlist at one of those T14s, do you think simply being accepted would be enough to sway BC or BU even if I'm not given any cash?

It's not unheard of for people to get accepted off of the waitlist from these schools and be given some scholarship money.

You can use either school to try to get money from the other. "Hey UVA, that sounds great, but I got $100k at BU and I'm worried about debt." or "Hey BU, I'm so happy to have deposited, but UVA just accepted me off of their waitlist and I'm worried about my employment outcome."

upandup
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby upandup » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:40 pm

Also, and this is getting away from my original post a bit but I'm curious, BU posted sizable numbers of hiring back its own class last year, much more so than BC's. I've seen criticism of this met with people in support of BU saying that, yes, this is true, but that these jobs are all JD required, decent-paying positions. Because I don't really know about what these jobs would entail (and if a figure is as high as 20% I'm sure I'm well served to figure it out), could somebody shed some light on what they actually do entail? Both in terms of the type of work itself as well as a typical starting salary?

upandup
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby upandup » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:42 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:
upandup wrote:Thanks but again I really don't have any interest in attending any of those schools considering the debt that I'd be taking on. I asked about USC/WUSTL/Vandy a couple of posts above, if it's June sometime and I get off the waitlist at one of those T14s, do you think simply being accepted would be enough to sway BC or BU even if I'm not given any cash?

It's not unheard of for people to get accepted off of the waitlist from these schools and be given some scholarship money.

You can use either school to try to get money from the other. "Hey UVA, that sounds great, but I got $100k at BU and I'm worried about debt." or "Hey BU, I'm so happy to have deposited, but UVA just accepted me off of their waitlist and I'm worried about my employment outcome."


I'll send out some LOCIs then. Not sure exactly what angle I'd take as I visited neither Northwestern nor Michigan, although I did visit UVA.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: BC$$ v. BU$$ v. W&M$$$ v. Suffolk$$$$

Postby Elston Gunn » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:55 pm

upandup wrote:Also, and this is getting away from my original post a bit but I'm curious, BU posted sizable numbers of hiring back its own class last year, much more so than BC's. I've seen criticism of this met with people in support of BU saying that, yes, this is true, but that these jobs are all JD required, decent-paying positions. Because I don't really know about what these jobs would entail (and if a figure is as high as 20% I'm sure I'm well served to figure it out), could somebody shed some light on what they actually do entail? Both in terms of the type of work itself as well as a typical starting salary?


Call and ask for a list of what the school funded jobs are and, even better, what the people were doing a year after. If they're funding to work in real lawyer jobs, I think they're a pretty good fallback. Check my post history; I've written quite a bit on the subject of school funded jobs in the last month or so.




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