H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

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ph5354a
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby ph5354a » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:10 pm

You have the opportunity to get an HYS degree with less than $100k in debt. That's unreal. Don't think about the first five years of your career when you're paying off the debt, think about the next 40 years. Just decide if you want to spend the next three years in Boston or CA, and youre set. Good luck, az. These are amazing choices.

now tell me what to do

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spicyyoda17
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby spicyyoda17 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:12 pm

bernaldiaz wrote:
az21833 wrote:Right, I could easily see myself doing litigation as well depending on what sparks my interest while in law school and want to make sure that route with the clerkship remains a possibility. either way I see myself in biglaw, m&a is just what I know best at this stage given my WE

And correct Emma - debt wise id graduate with about 75K at H/S and 0K at Penn.

Personal Contribution (Debt + Personal Savings) it would be 150K at H/S (75K debt, 75K savings) and 50K at Penn (2/3 of COL, all from savings without debt).

Again, i (as well as my parents) have put this money aside specifically to pay for law school so I am not too concerned about spending it, that is why im focused on the 75K vs 0K debt figure rather than 150K vs 50K expenditure comparison.

really torn between the three still. no one choice is standing out to me - H seems like the best fit, S seems like the best school and P seems like, well, the most logical given my comparatively modest goals. hoping to find some clarity at work today


Have you decided? Our options and situations are eerily similar. The thread I made with my circumstances-- viewtopic.php?f=1&t=207448

+1

#firstworldproblems

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Nelson
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby Nelson » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:03 pm

The idea that Harvard or Stanford is worth $100k+ over Penn for firm placement is crazy. The only career goal that justifies Harvard or Stanford in these situations is a desire to be a law professor (since the crazy prestigious stuff will require you to do extremely well at any school and is not a median outcome even from HYS). Just think about what you could buy with one hundred thousand dollars.

az21833
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby az21833 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:36 pm

Breny that's unreal haha. I'm still at a complete impasse between the three. What about you? Yoda?

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bernaldiaz
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby bernaldiaz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:47 pm

az21833 wrote:Breny that's unreal haha. I'm still at a complete impasse between the three. What about you? Yoda?


My heart says Stanford. In the H vs. S debate, I honestly find it hard to see how anyone would turn down Stanford. I feel like Palo Alto is a dream and I think there is a decent enough edge in employment outcomes (especially in down times) that Stanford gets the nod.

However, my pragmatic side says Penn. I'd probably graduate with 75K in the bank and a degree from a great school. I just want big law, which should be attainable from Penn. I wouldn't be forced to stay in too long if I don't like it with no debt, and if I do like it, my first years' checks won't be halved by loan payments. That would be pretty unbelievable.

Did you go to the Penn law accepted students weekend? I sort of didn't consider the offer as much as I should have at first, until I really thought about what being in debt entailed, so I didn't go. If you did, I'd love to hear what you think! Will you be at Stanford this weekend?

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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby vzapana » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:57 pm

bernaldiaz wrote:
az21833 wrote:Breny that's unreal haha. I'm still at a complete impasse between the three. What about you? Yoda?


My heart says Stanford. In the H vs. S debate, I honestly find it hard to see how anyone would turn down Stanford. I feel like Palo Alto is a dream and I think there is a decent enough edge in employment outcomes (especially in down times) that Stanford gets the nod.

However, my pragmatic side says Penn. I'd probably graduate with 75K in the bank and a degree from a great school. I just want big law, which should be attainable from Penn. I wouldn't be forced to stay in too long if I don't like it with no debt, and if I do like it, my first years' checks won't be halved by loan payments. That would be pretty unbelievable.

Did you go to the Penn law accepted students weekend? I sort of didn't consider the offer as much as I should have at first, until I really thought about what being in debt entailed, so I didn't go. If you did, I'd love to hear what you think! Will you be at Stanford this weekend?


Odd, I feel the same way, only sub Stanford with Harvard. I think Boston is just a much better place to live than Palo Alto (not in terms of weather, but in terms of things to do). And I live the larger alumni network, and I think that's a stronger indicator of long-term employment success than first-year numbers.

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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby dissonance1848 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:07 pm

#firstworldproblems


You meant #TOP1%worldproblems, right?

Anyways, OP, it really is between Penn and Stanford. How anyone can say

that Harvard is in the running here apparently cares more about subjective and

personally volatile variables over objective statistics....

Stanford places roughly 50% more of its class into clerkships than Harvard....

Stanford is much smaller than Harvard (roughly 200 person class to 550 person class), and

apparently has a lot of self-selection,

meaning that if you want biglaw, not only are you getting it, but you can definitely snag

elite firms more easily out of Stanford too.

PI/Gov/Academia will be easier to secure

Grading system at Stanford is less harsh than Harvard, making grades less important

(thus class rank is less of an impediment due to greater opacity)

Seriously OP, its between Stanford and Penn, take your pick.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby bernaldiaz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:11 pm

vzapana wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:
az21833 wrote:Breny that's unreal haha. I'm still at a complete impasse between the three. What about you? Yoda?


My heart says Stanford. In the H vs. S debate, I honestly find it hard to see how anyone would turn down Stanford. I feel like Palo Alto is a dream and I think there is a decent enough edge in employment outcomes (especially in down times) that Stanford gets the nod.

However, my pragmatic side says Penn. I'd probably graduate with 75K in the bank and a degree from a great school. I just want big law, which should be attainable from Penn. I wouldn't be forced to stay in too long if I don't like it with no debt, and if I do like it, my first years' checks won't be halved by loan payments. That would be pretty unbelievable.

Did you go to the Penn law accepted students weekend? I sort of didn't consider the offer as much as I should have at first, until I really thought about what being in debt entailed, so I didn't go. If you did, I'd love to hear what you think! Will you be at Stanford this weekend?


Odd, I feel the same way, only sub Stanford with Harvard. I think Boston is just a much better place to live than Palo Alto (not in terms of weather, but in terms of things to do). And I live the larger alumni network, and I think that's a stronger indicator of long-term employment success than first-year numbers.


But anyways, after looking at your LSN I would take Penn. You have the Ivy undergrad and great work experience, so you don't need the extra prestige/networking bump from H/S. Your work experience will carry you to a biglaw job from Penn even if you end up below median. Keep the money you've saved over the last couple years and enjoy Penn.

az21833
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby az21833 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:40 am

pretty much every single post anybody makes is extremely compelling and makes me change my mind, ha. bright souls here on TLS

stanford seems like objectively the best school, certainly on paper by a significant portion - smallest class, best clerkship placement, graduates more of a commodity on east coast, most difficult to get into by far and you have the most intimate interactions with faculty and classmates. way more cushion when the economy is down or if you do poorly in school. lack of grades reduces stress and weather increases your vitamin D

harvard seems like the best fit overall - im an east coast / midwest guy through and through and would like to remain out here for personal ties. CA would be very much out of the way from personal perspective. in addition, harvards corporate law goes in much more depth than stanford (excluding IP, entrepreneurship, patent, VC, etc.) due to its size - the course listings, journals and clinics are simply unrivalved by anything at SLS or Penn. Then you have the incredibly alumni network as well as the signaling effect of the degree to non-legal fields

penn seems like the most logical. with my work experience / background i think i should be able to get biglaw of some sort relatively easily, even if its not a top firm. i think a clerkship would be a great experience but its not critical for me so i think i can go to penn and get to where i want to be career wise debt free easily. For most this would make it an obvious decision but for whatever reason i look at law school as much more than just employment outcomes. I am very interested in the intellectual rigor of actually attending and the intangible/network/career change benefits 10/15/20 years down line. Thats why i have not enrolled at Penn yet.

im still pretty close to 1/3 1/3 1/3 which is frightening this close to d-day. THREE MORE DAYS. i think i'll hold a decision like lebron. $ to charity

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ph5354a
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby ph5354a » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:47 am

az21833 wrote:i think i'll hold a decision like lebron. $ to charity


Please do this. It may also help to have a few days away from TLS too. I love TLS as much as the next poster, but there are a lot of voices on here and a lot of compelling arguments to be made for each option. It might help for you to think about what you want and what your gut/heart is telling you. Hopefully that will give you some clarity.

az21833
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby az21833 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:29 pm

ph5354a wrote:
az21833 wrote:i think i'll hold a decision like lebron. $ to charity


Please do this. It may also help to have a few days away from TLS too. I love TLS as much as the next poster, but there are a lot of voices on here and a lot of compelling arguments to be made for each option. It might help for you to think about what you want and what your gut/heart is telling you. Hopefully that will give you some clarity.


wise words from ph

az21833
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby az21833 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:50 pm

fyi, extended deadline. next friday = d day

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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby JamesDean1955 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:11 pm

Let us know what you decide OP! Sweet situation to be in methinks.

az21833
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby az21833 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:22 am

Withdrew from P today.

already feeling the burden of the debTTT but was projecting my career 5-10 years down the road and the amount of money i am freaking out about now (80K debt) will not be very much, hopefully. i've also given much more route to the litigation rate, specifically the boutique shops and want to make sure that door (a3 clerkship) is still available

now need to decide H or S. Any concluding thoughts on which one i'd fit in better at / do better at?

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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby TrustInMusic » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:55 am

az21833 wrote:Withdrew from P today.

already feeling the burden of the debTTT but was projecting my career 5-10 years down the road and the amount of money i am freaking out about now (80K debt) will not be very much, hopefully. i've also given much more route to the litigation rate, specifically the boutique shops and want to make sure that door (a3 clerkship) is still available

now need to decide H or S. Any concluding thoughts on which one i'd fit in better at / do better at?


:lol:

:roll: See you at Harvard.

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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby bernaldiaz » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:13 am

Go to Harvard. Don't you agree, MOTM?

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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby Big Dog » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:22 am

Withdrew from P today.


What took you so long? This was a simple no-brainer.

Between H & S...whichever one you feel more comfortable. (Some folks just hate the vibe on The Farm.)

az21833
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby az21833 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:58 am

it was a full ride. that and real-life 24 last night kept me up literally all night.

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The Brainalist
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby The Brainalist » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:26 pm

Reminder: The Harvard boost left 4.5% of its JD grads in 2011 and 3.7% of its graduates in 2012 without employment. That's somewhere between 21 and 27 unemployed Harvard JDs each year (using the 2011 graduating class of 583 http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/20 ... tatistics/) .

az21833
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby az21833 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:54 pm

I imagine that's quite substantial vs Y,S.

i wish S were east coast.

dissonance1848
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby dissonance1848 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:15 pm

If its between Harvard and Stanford, then Stanford wins, hands down.

Go to Stanford.

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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby rebexness » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:31 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:If its between Harvard and Stanford, then Stanford wins, hands down.

Go to Stanford.


Clearly it doesn't, since he is still struggling with the decision.

Az, I second the idea of not thinking about it for a few days, or thinking about it outside the realm of FB/TLS/etc.

kpuc
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby kpuc » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:00 am

az21833 wrote:but for whatever reason i look at law school as much more than just employment outcomes. I am very interested in the intellectual rigor of actually attending and the intangible/network/career change benefits 10/15/20 years down line. Thats why i have not enrolled at Penn yet


What do you mean by "intellectual rigor"? Law schools all teach pretty much the same (useless) stuff, which you'll quickly forget once you graduate and start working. If you're talking about the student body, you're essentially saying that someone with a 3.9 GPA and 174 LSAT (HYS student) is substantially more intellectual than someone with a 3.7 GPA and 170 LSAT (Penn).

guinness1547
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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby guinness1547 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:27 am

Do the stupid coin flip thing. H is heads, S is tails. You'll know in the air what you want the coin to land on. That's your decision. Trust the gut.

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Re: H vs. S vs. C vs. C ($$) vs. P ($$$$)

Postby Citizen Genet » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:54 am

Consider doing a Clerkship on the Delaware Court of Chancery or Delaware Supreme Court and go to Penn for nothing. Then go corporate.

EDIT: Confession. I didn't read through the whole thread and just noticed you withdrew from Penn. C'est la vie.




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