Elston Gunn wrote:jrf12886 wrote:I would say you have two avenues. If you are willing to live with debt, then go to either H or S. They are both good options for your goals. If you are scared of the debt, go to Penn. The other options don't seem to make much sense.
Also, I wouldn't say that people "fall through the cracks" at H. Almost everyone who aspires to work in a large firm is able to do so. PM me if you have specific concerns though.
How do you explain the 20+ people working at firms under 50 and another 20+ at state clerkships in the data I linked? I'm sure there are a few at elite boutiques, but considering that almost none of the elite boutiques hire pre-clerkship and that the numbers are very low for Y/S in this category, I strongly doubt almost all of the people at these firms preferred them to NLJ 250s. Again, I wouldn't put too much weight on this data, but it would make me pick S over H at the same money if I felt the same about them otherwise.
Obviously you can nitpick any data, but just a couple thoughts on the graph on that thread.
1. I can't find a recent breakdown of clerkship types at HLS, but the year I matriculated a lot of the non-fed clerkships were with state supreme courts, which are actually quite desirable for many people, particularly if you're going into practice after and not academia.
2. There are other threads that go into this better, but the school-funded positions can be hard to decode because at Yale and Harvard these are not safety nets for people striking out at OCI, but rather ways to break into PI because PI orgs are so short on money right now. Someone did some digging on HLS's school funded positions from a year or two ago and many of the people, after the money expired, were working at fairly desirable firms or long-term PI positions. There were a few crummy outcomes, but it was out of 30 people or so. In sum, these are in many cases not undesirable outcomes, and as I said some people aim at these things.
3. According to HLS's c/o 2012 data, right around two percent of people are unemployed and seeking employment and like ten people in firms under 100 people, and about 23% of people were in clerkships. Those may be cracks, but honestly they're not that big.
Overall, you can split hairs statistically and Stanford probably wins, due mostly to its teeny-tiny class, but I think it's a small enough difference that if OP just has a strong personal preference Harvard is a completely justifiable choice. He kind of wins law school either way, honestly, due to the financial situation.
I can't speak to the Penn question. Off the cuff, Harvard and Stanford's big law placement is not $80k better than Penn's but given OP's preference for a very elite firm, H and S might have some advantage there. You'd have to dig into the numbers, though. With OP's kind of work experience, he'd probably be in the running at an elite firm from Chicago or Penn.