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ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:30 pm
by vrmsoccer
Hey guys,

So, I've really narrowed down my law school choices to Arizona State and University of Arizona, but I am having difficulty choosing between the two.

Arizona CoA: 60k over 3 years

ASU CoA: 72k over 3 years

I don't have a big preference over Tuscon vs Phoenix and would eventually like to move back to California but would be fine working in Arizona for a while. What do you guys think?

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:09 pm
by gaud
UofA seems to be better at placing in California. I would factor that into my decision, but you should go wherever is cheapest.

Seriously, though, neither school does well at placing in California and you should consider going to a school in California.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:15 pm
by Lord Randolph McDuff
As long as your fine with working in Arizona for 3-5 years, I think your plan is reasonable. Just go to the school you like best.

It it were me, I'd take Arizona. I think it has a slightly better rep and I'd rather live in Tucson for three years. That said, be sure to spend your summers in the city you want to work in.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:22 pm
by goldeneye
I think I saw some article recently that said Arizona was gonna lower their tuition maybe. Check above the law.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:28 pm
by patrickd139
Just want to emphasize what's already been said, but also is the most important thing for your future--

If you want to practice law in California, go to a law school in California.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:30 pm
by mephistopheles
follow the droves

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:31 pm
by gaud
goldeneye wrote:I think I saw some article recently that said Arizona was gonna lower their tuition maybe. Check above the law.


They are lowering their tuition.

Also, I believe (though this I'm not so sure of) ASU has froze their tuition, but I'm not sure for how long.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:33 pm
by gaud
Also, consider getting some ties to Arizona. Register a vehicle, cut ties with California while you're in Arizona.

Assuming you currently live in California, a lot of the firms are going to be concerned with how likely you are to stay in Arizona and will factor that into their hiring decisions.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:50 pm
by vrmsoccer
My best offers in California are to Pepperdine with a CoA of 120k and that's with a stip to stay in the top half of the class. And do you guys see ASU's recent trajectory continuing? They seem to be making some great strides. And how important do you see it being in Phoenix compared to being 2 hours away as that is the main market in Arizona

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:55 pm
by gaud
vrmsoccer wrote:My best offers in California are to Pepperdine with a CoA of 120k and that's with a stip to stay in the top half of the class. And do you guys see ASU's recent trajectory continuing? They seem to be making some great strides. And how important do you see it being in Phoenix compared to being 2 hours away as that is the main market in Arizona


I'd be willing to bet ASU is stuck where it is. It may move up a couple, but more likely to drop a couple over the next few years. Regardless, it's likely to place the same as it places now. In Arizona no one really cares about rankings.

The drive from Tucson to Phoenix is not that bad and UofA offers a ton of events and opportunities to come to Phoenix. Also, UofA has a lot of alumni in Phx and many firms in Phx often take 1 from ASU and 1 from UofA or something similar. In sum, it won't make much of a difference. BUT, being in Phoenix will make it easier to network in Phoenix, no doubt about that.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:08 pm
by veloc
UA law student here, what has been stated is correct. Arizona does better in California than does ASU (although it's true that neither is outstanding in the market). It's certainly possible to get there, but it does generally require working in Arizona for a couple of years or having some connection there. I have a job in DC this summer, but the vast majority of my classmates are staying here. I hear ASU is doing much better, although it should be considered that they weren't even a Tier One school prior to 2010 and all of a sudden they had a questionably spectacular rise in the rankings- which doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad school, just a bit odd. Their employment statistics are misleading at best, and class size is a bit larger the UAs but that's a matter of preference. Personally I wouldn't consider ASU, but that's just me, and I'm a bit biased at this point. Tempe is a bigger city with a lot more going on, Tucson is less so. UA is lowering tuition next year, there will be an 8 percent decrease to $38,841 from $42,298 for out of state residents. I really like it here, but in the end it's a personal choice.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:45 pm
by jrsbaseball5
gaud wrote:
goldeneye wrote:I think I saw some article recently that said Arizona was gonna lower their tuition maybe. Check above the law.


They are lowering their tuition.

Also, I believe (though this I'm not so sure of) ASU has froze their tuition, but I'm not sure for how long.


ASU has frozen their tuition, plus they are going to be allowing 3L's to take the bar exam.

Edit: I think UofA will allow the same thing, I just know ASU was really pushing for it.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:00 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
jrsbaseball5 wrote:
gaud wrote:
goldeneye wrote:I think I saw some article recently that said Arizona was gonna lower their tuition maybe. Check above the law.


They are lowering their tuition.

Also, I believe (though this I'm not so sure of) ASU has froze their tuition, but I'm not sure for how long.


ASU has frozen their tuition, plus they are going to be allowing 3L's to take the bar exam.

Edit: I think UofA will allow the same thing, I just know ASU was really pushing for it.

It's the state that determines when people can take the bar, so it was the state that decided this was okay - it applies to all AZ law schools.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:11 pm
by buddyt
If you want Cali, you need Stanford/Berkeley/USC/UCLA.

If you want Arizona, ASU and UofA are peers. I went to both of their ASDs this weekend. Both have respectable employment numbers, good reputations, etc. Tucson is an awful city, Tempe is a great city. UofA has a bigger scholarship budget than ASU.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:06 pm
by keviiiiiiiiiiiin
.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:33 pm
by PRgradBYU
buddytyler wrote:If you want Cali, you need Stanford/Berkeley/USC/UCLA.


This. The legal market in CA in unbelievably saturated.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:07 pm
by vrmsoccer
PRgradBYU wrote:
buddytyler wrote:If you want Cali, you need Stanford/Berkeley/USC/UCLA.


This. The legal market in CA in unbelievably saturated.


I realize that, which is why I'm not opposed at all to working in Arizona where there seems to be a lot more opportunity, especially in regards to getting that first job. But basically what I have realized between the two schools, is that it seems to come down to which is a better personal fit.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:09 pm
by patrickd139
What are your ties to Arizona (the state, not the law school)?

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:00 pm
by vrmsoccer
patrickd139 wrote:What are your ties to Arizona (the state, not the law school)?

None really, except I'd like to practice there..

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:48 pm
by patrickd139
vrmsoccer wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:What are your ties to Arizona (the state, not the law school)?

None really, except I'd like to practice there..

You're going to face a huge uphill battle getting a job in Arizona, regardless of a) which school you go to and b) whether you do well class rank-wise.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:17 am
by qwertyboard
I thought this might interest you guys. They say they are transforming legal education. I get the feeling they found a way to cheat the employment statistics. ASU created a completely separate entity non-profit to provide their students with full time long term JD required employment.

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/a ... cent-grads

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:19 am
by gaud
qwertyboard wrote:I thought this might interest you guys. They say they are transforming legal education. I get the feeling they found a way to cheat the employment statistics. ASU created a completely separate entity non-profit to provide their students with full time long term JD required employment.

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/a ... cent-grads


This is old news, but a nice thing to mention. I don't believe the firm opens for another couple/few years.

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:19 am
by qwertyboard
This might also be a really bad sign.

ASU North American Law Degree - Take the Canadian Bar!
http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/a ... nadian-bar


gaud wrote:
qwertyboard wrote:I thought this might interest you guys. They say they are transforming legal education. I get the feeling they found a way to cheat the employment statistics. ASU created a completely separate entity non-profit to provide their students with full time long term JD required employment.

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/a ... cent-grads


This is old news, but a nice thing to mention. I don't believe the firm opens for another couple/few years.


my bad ... I just found out..

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:34 am
by 005618502
vrmsoccer wrote:My best offers in California are to Pepperdine with a CoA of 120k and that's with a stip to stay in the top half of the class. And do you guys see ASU's recent trajectory continuing? They seem to be making some great strides. And how important do you see it being in Phoenix compared to being 2 hours away as that is the main market in Arizona


Dude, honestly you need to take a year off, get some WE and re-take the LSAT. Just reading your posts shows you 1) dont know what is actually going on right now with the legal market and 2) looking at some pretty weak choices.

Why not retake and get into a good school in CA? Even USC/UCLA (I know others mentioned Berkeley and Stanford, but those are obvious first choices for CA) would be miles above and you can get into those schools with a great LSAT even if you are working with a bad GPA.

If you want CA, neither of the AZ schools are a good idea. And what "trajectory" are you talking about? Just pure rankings? come on man....

Re: ASU vs U of A

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:31 am
by vrmsoccer
qwertyboard wrote:This might also be a really bad sign.

ASU North American Law Degree - Take the Canadian Bar!
http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/a ... nadian-bar


gaud wrote:
qwertyboard wrote:I thought this might interest you guys. They say they are transforming legal education. I get the feeling they found a way to cheat the employment statistics. ASU created a completely separate entity non-profit to provide their students with full time long term JD required employment.

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/a ... cent-grads


This is old news, but a nice thing to mention. I don't believe the firm opens for another couple/few years.


my bad ... I just found out..


Why would the Canadian Bar thing be a bad sign? I was told it was due to the large amount of law professors that eventually retire to Phoenix. I don't know how that could hurt.

And, as for retaking, I don't really think I could improve that much. Yes, I know if I study for the next 6 months, I could improve my LSAT x amount of points and such. I put a lot of effort in the first time, took Testmasters, studied my a$$ off and got a 169, while i was PTing from 169-172. Working in California is not what I really want. It is just a preference. Arizona vs NorCal would be the same distance from my hometown. My main goal is to get a decent(I say that, because most of you on here would only consider big law a good job) job at a firm after I graduate. Both Arizona schools have good employment numbers and the Arizona market is not nearly as saturated as California. I would be graduating with about a 1/3 to 1/4 of the amount of debt as if I went to a Cali school.

I see how ties in Arizona would help me with firms in Arizona, but I don't see how I can't break into the legal market there through graduating from one of the Arizona schools, with those contacts, and a good class ranking.