.

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which school(s) should we choose?

CLS/NYU
49
54%
Duke
34
38%
Penn
7
8%
 
Total votes: 90

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:28 am

king george wrote:With some respect, I could normally accept some of this bravado but for the fact that without your URM status you would have been lucky to get a T25 acceptance, much less Duke with money.

A one-post account who's AA trolling? Permanuked. Fuck off.

ironbmike wrote:You mean to add onto a boost you already get over other people? :?:

ironbmike wrote:Nice victim mentality. I don't expect you to care about the hapless people who can't get into T-14 schools with a 162 and 3.3.

You get a nice timeout too.

No AA/race trolling in the on-topic forums. Don't do it (and don't respond to it).

talesofyore
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:21 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby talesofyore » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:40 am

Ramsey wrote:
Problem is, he not a US citizen at the moment (is European) and wouldnt get a greencard through our marriage until the beginning of next year most likely, so it's not easy for him to just pack and move to NY (finding a place willing to sponsor a work visa is a beyotch). But maybe he could just stay in Philly one year longer and we could do long-distance? I guess that's also an option.

So yeah, another problem is his lack of citizenship and the fact that, for the first year, he would not be elgible for federal loans (only privates one)...

Fuuuuuuuuck :(


I'm going through a similar process (my soon-to-be husband is a US citizen and I am not; we'll be married by this fall and I will apply for perm. residency). From what I've heard, while not required, cohabitation (or lack thereof) can be a factor that can delay the process of obtaining the residency. My husband and I are very likely to be attending schools 3-4 hours apart (Im waitlisted at his school), and I have been repetitively told that if I don't get in off WL I should transfer to his school after 1L so that I can be granted permanent residency asap. Something to think about if his getting perm. residency asap is a priority.


Told by whom? I've always heard (and seen) that allowances are made for school situations. You might want to check on that.

User avatar
bananapudding88
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:11 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby bananapudding88 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:59 am

.
Last edited by bananapudding88 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bananapudding88
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:11 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby bananapudding88 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:04 am

.
Last edited by bananapudding88 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ramsey
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:14 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby Ramsey » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:06 am

talesofyore wrote:
Ramsey wrote:
Problem is, he not a US citizen at the moment (is European) and wouldnt get a greencard through our marriage until the beginning of next year most likely, so it's not easy for him to just pack and move to NY (finding a place willing to sponsor a work visa is a beyotch). But maybe he could just stay in Philly one year longer and we could do long-distance? I guess that's also an option.

So yeah, another problem is his lack of citizenship and the fact that, for the first year, he would not be elgible for federal loans (only privates one)...

Fuuuuuuuuck :(


I'm going through a similar process (my soon-to-be husband is a US citizen and I am not; we'll be married by this fall and I will apply for perm. residency). From what I've heard, while not required, cohabitation (or lack thereof) can be a factor that can delay the process of obtaining the residency. My husband and I are very likely to be attending schools 3-4 hours apart (Im waitlisted at his school), and I have been repetitively told that if I don't get in off WL I should transfer to his school after 1L so that I can be granted permanent residency asap. Something to think about if his getting perm. residency asap is a priority.


Told by whom? I've always heard (and seen) that allowances are made for school situations. You might want to check on that.


by immigration lawyers, who warned me that applying for permanent residency is becoming more difficult and definitely taking much longer than before. Yes, I've also seen and heard instances too, and I'm not worried that genuinely married applicant like myself and OP's fiance will ever face difficulty in eventually obtaining the residency - it's more about when, and it seems that OP's fiance wants to apply for federal loans asap.

But then, these lawyers may be just trying to be extra safe so as to avoid blame if a very unlikely outcome of my application being rejected or going through extra review happens. I guess it also has to do with the fact that I'm originally from a country used to be kind of known for producing marriage immigrants.

User avatar
DaleCooper
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:07 am

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby DaleCooper » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:25 am

aiaea wrote:Thanks for bringing this up. I concur that some have taken it for granted that it would be easy for us to end up in the same city post Duke graduation. I get Duke is a huge feeder school for NYC, but isn't it a bit more difficult to land BigLaw in NY compared to NYU/CLS, or even Penn? If yes, doesn't requiring that two people be able to find such jobs in NYC further complicate odds? Then again, I understand Duke does pretty well in DC placement, and we would be happy to end up there as well.


I'm not sure how to answer this, but I'll do my best:

1.) If you can get BigLaw anywhere from Duke, NYC will be one of those places.
2.) If you can get BigLaw anywhere from Penn, NYC will be one of those places.
3.) If you can get BigLaw anywhere from NYU or Columbia, NYC will be one of those places.
4.) It is easier to get NYC BigLaw from Penn than from Duke, and even easier from NYU or Columbia.
5.) You won't have much trouble getting some sort of full-time, market-or-LRAP job in NYC from Duke, Penn, NYU, or Columbia as long as you are smart about the job search.

In other words, NYU > Duke for NYC BigLaw (if for no other reason than location), but the odds of you not being in the same city are close to zero no matter what.

Grades are the critical thing here. Avoid the bottom third and don't go Ron Paul Revolution or Get Back In The Kitchen or... that thing you said in the first post... ;-) during the interviews, and it shouldn't be too difficult to get NYC BigLaw from any of the four schools. At NYU, though, striking out usually involves one of the above *and* bad strategy. I assume Columbia is the same.

DC is another matter. DC chances are probably somewhat close to equal from all the schools (slightly easier from Columbia), but that doesn't mean it will be easy from anywhere.

talesofyore
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:21 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby talesofyore » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:38 am

Ramsey wrote:
talesofyore wrote:
Ramsey wrote:
Problem is, he not a US citizen at the moment (is European) and wouldnt get a greencard through our marriage until the beginning of next year most likely, so it's not easy for him to just pack and move to NY (finding a place willing to sponsor a work visa is a beyotch). But maybe he could just stay in Philly one year longer and we could do long-distance? I guess that's also an option.

So yeah, another problem is his lack of citizenship and the fact that, for the first year, he would not be elgible for federal loans (only privates one)...

Fuuuuuuuuck :(


I'm going through a similar process (my soon-to-be husband is a US citizen and I am not; we'll be married by this fall and I will apply for perm. residency). From what I've heard, while not required, cohabitation (or lack thereof) can be a factor that can delay the process of obtaining the residency. My husband and I are very likely to be attending schools 3-4 hours apart (Im waitlisted at his school), and I have been repetitively told that if I don't get in off WL I should transfer to his school after 1L so that I can be granted permanent residency asap. Something to think about if his getting perm. residency asap is a priority.


Told by whom? I've always heard (and seen) that allowances are made for school situations. You might want to check on that.


by immigration lawyers, who warned me that applying for permanent residency is becoming more difficult and definitely taking much longer than before. Yes, I've also seen and heard instances too, and I'm not worried that genuinely married applicant like myself and OP's fiance will ever face difficulty in eventually obtaining the residency - it's more about when, and it seems that OP's fiance wants to apply for federal loans asap.

But then, these lawyers may be just trying to be extra safe so as to avoid blame if a very unlikely outcome of my application being rejected or going through extra review happens. I guess it also has to do with the fact that I'm originally from a country used to be kind of known for producing marriage immigrants.


PMed

talesofyore
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:21 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby talesofyore » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:45 am

..
Last edited by talesofyore on Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Redfactor
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby Redfactor » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:49 pm

I think you should evaluate your performance history, as it appears to be much weaker than your resume would indicate. You are going to matriculate at the bottom of both performance-based indicators. Doesn't bode well for you.

For this reason I think you should take the money at Duke to limit your debt.

If your father can get you a job at the UN, then Duke won't prevent that. I don't think Columbia is going to get you a job at the UN unless you're one of the tippy-top students, so if your father can't get you in, I don't think it should be a consideration.

As a URM, there are excellent opportunities from each of these schools for biglaw. But if you don't perform well compared to your professional peers in biglaw, they will most likely push you out whether you want it or not. Getting pushed out before paying off your debt would be a scary place to be.

Grats on all the choices and best of luck in the fall!

dabbadon8
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 2:17 am

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby dabbadon8 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:52 pm

Redfactor wrote:I think you should evaluate your performance history, as it appears to be much weaker than your resume would indicate. You are going to matriculate at the bottom of both performance-based indicators. Doesn't bode well for you.

For this reason I think you should take the money at Duke to limit your debt.

If your father can get you a job at the UN, then Duke won't prevent that. I don't think Columbia is going to get you a job at the UN unless you're one of the tippy-top students, so if your father can't get you in, I don't think it should be a consideration.

As a URM, there are excellent opportunities from each of these schools for biglaw. But if you don't perform well compared to your professional peers in biglaw, they will most likely push you out whether you want it or not. Getting pushed out before paying off your debt would be a scary place to be.

Grats on all the choices and best of luck in the fall!


This ^

User avatar
Nelson
Posts: 2061
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby Nelson » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:48 pm

Redfactor wrote:I think you should evaluate your performance history, as it appears to be much weaker than your resume would indicate. You are going to matriculate at the bottom of both performance-based indicators. Doesn't bode well for you.

You're kidding right?

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:04 pm

Redfactor wrote:I think you should evaluate your performance history, as it appears to be much weaker than your resume would indicate. You are going to matriculate at the bottom of both performance-based indicators. Doesn't bode well for you.

What is the basis for this?

dabbadon8
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 2:17 am

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby dabbadon8 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:16 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Redfactor wrote:I think you should evaluate your performance history, as it appears to be much weaker than your resume would indicate. You are going to matriculate at the bottom of both performance-based indicators. Doesn't bode well for you.

What is the basis for this?


Does the fact that she'd be matriculating with a 3.3/162 at a school, say columbia, where she is 8 lsat points and .3 gpa point below the 25 percentile have no bearing on the likelihood of her success? The only two predictors of law school sucess, albeit hardly perfect proxies, suggest the odds of her doing well are not in her favor. It isn't like her score is even in the same standard deviation as the 25th percentile (170) for columbia. Taking out 300k for sticker, assuming you can get biglaw,when your only indicators of potential success are likely among the absolute bottom of the matriculant barrel seems risky.

philepistemer
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:43 am

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby philepistemer » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:24 pm

Were you the gunner in Ferguson's mock class at Columbia's ASP?

Pope Francis
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:41 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby Pope Francis » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:40 pm

dabbadon8 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Redfactor wrote:I think you should evaluate your performance history, as it appears to be much weaker than your resume would indicate. You are going to matriculate at the bottom of both performance-based indicators. Doesn't bode well for you.

What is the basis for this?


Does the fact that she'd be matriculating with a 3.3/162 at a school, say columbia, where she is 8 lsat points and .3 gpa point below the 25 percentile have no bearing on the likelihood of her success? The only two predictors of law school sucess, albeit hardly perfect proxies, suggest the odds of her doing well are not in her favor. It isn't like her score is even in the same standard deviation as the 25th percentile (170) for columbia. Taking out 300k for sticker, assuming you can get biglaw,when your only indicators of potential success are likely among the absolute bottom of the matriculant barrel seems risky.


This foolishly assumes that whatever factors she has going for her that got her into Columbia won't help her get into, and stay in, BigLaw. Unless you have hard data to back up your claims, I don't really find this too persuasive.

User avatar
JamMasterJ
Posts: 6688
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:17 pm

Pope Francis wrote:
dabbadon8 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Redfactor wrote:I think you should evaluate your performance history, as it appears to be much weaker than your resume would indicate. You are going to matriculate at the bottom of both performance-based indicators. Doesn't bode well for you.

What is the basis for this?


Does the fact that she'd be matriculating with a 3.3/162 at a school, say columbia, where she is 8 lsat points and .3 gpa point below the 25 percentile have no bearing on the likelihood of her success? The only two predictors of law school sucess, albeit hardly perfect proxies, suggest the odds of her doing well are not in her favor. It isn't like her score is even in the same standard deviation as the 25th percentile (170) for columbia. Taking out 300k for sticker, assuming you can get biglaw,when your only indicators of potential success are likely among the absolute bottom of the matriculant barrel seems risky.


This foolishly assumes that whatever factors she has going for her that got her into Columbia won't help her get into, and stay in, BigLaw. Unless you have hard data to back up your claims, I don't really find this too persuasive.

It also foolishly assumes that Biglaw is hard. it's shitty hours, not intellectual rigor.

User avatar
sinfiery
Posts: 3308
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:55 am

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby sinfiery » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:14 pm

Biglaw hiring seems to have a URM advantage too (from what I can gather) so she should be fine. Her husband isn't far from median to make it statistically significant.

dabbadon8
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 2:17 am

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby dabbadon8 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:27 pm

Hmm so, her grades won't matter to get a big law job. And, not only that, she'll be able keep that job as long as she has a pulse, defintely for long enough to pay off 300k. Then with her grades, which won't matter, she'll go work at the UN. Sounds great. I'm not saying gpa/lsat is the end all predictor of success, but I think you guys are are giving naïve advice that disregards the only predictor of success, the importance of grades, the burnout/up-or-out nature of biglaw, and the competitiveness of her end career goal.

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby NYstate » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:30 pm

As long as we are assuming things about OP, I'm happy to assume that she does well at Columbia, has a great marriage with a great guy and they both end up in jobs they want.

Once you go to law school etc, you realize that predicting how any one individual will do based on their numbers is pointless. Many people do better; plenty of people do worse. You don't know who is who until the grades are posted.

User avatar
Rahviveh
Posts: 2271
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:02 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby Rahviveh » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:36 pm

NYstate wrote:As long as we are assuming things about OP, I'm happy to assume that she does well at Columbia, has a great marriage with a great guy and they both end up in jobs they want.

Once you go to law school etc, you realize that predicting how any one individual will do based on their numbers is pointless. Many people do better; plenty of people do worse. You don't know who is who until the grades are posted.

But with over 80% of CLS getting offers and her URM status offering more opportunities its not as much of a concern..

Nobody's assuming shell do well, they are saying her GPA/LSAT isn't going to doom her to the bottom of the class.

Op I hope you applied to S.E.O (I didn't but it would be a good opportunity for you)

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby NYstate » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:48 pm

I guess I misunderstood the posts about how her "past performance" didnt "bode well."

User avatar
bananapudding88
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:11 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby bananapudding88 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:56 pm

.
Last edited by bananapudding88 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

dabbadon8
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 2:17 am

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby dabbadon8 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:56 pm

Its called odds. There's a nfl combine for a reason. Its not perfect but its predictive. A wide receiver with a 8.0 40 time doesn't go in the first round because his odds of success are lower. The lsat is similarly given for a reason. It isn't perfect but don't pretend that not even being in the ballpark as your classmates doesn't have predictive value.

User avatar
bananapudding88
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:11 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby bananapudding88 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:59 pm

.
Last edited by bananapudding88 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NanaP
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:29 pm

Re: Couple Needs Advice! NYU/CLS vs Duke vs. Penn

Postby NanaP » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:02 pm

dabbadon8 wrote:Its called odds. There's a nfl combine for a reason. Its not perfect but its predictive. A wide receiver with a 8.0 40 time doesn't go in the first round because his odds of success are lower. The lsat is similarly given for a reason. It isn't perfect but don't pretend that not even being in the ballpark as your classmates doesn't have predictive value.



You're an idiot and the garbage you just wrote shows you know nothing about sports.....worst analogy I've ever seen....,




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: archipm, Baidu [Spider], carlos_danger, SolRs and 3 guests