. Forum

[DorianGray89]

I would disagree. I'm also from outside the U.S. and both Columbia and Duke have great reputations where I come from, but NYU is known more for arts in my region of the world as opposed to anything else.

[bananapudding88]

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[king george]

You have now mentioned being a prestige whore more than a couple of times along with the almost forgone conclusion that you will work for the UN post law school graduation. With some respect, I could normally accept some of this bravado but for the fact that without your URM status you would have been lucky to get a T25 acceptance, much less Duke with money. I might be tad less boastful given those circumstances. That being said, I know a couple in my class with stas similar to your fiancee at Penn. Still, pick NYC and Columbia...the UN awaits

[bananapudding88]

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[banjo]

My original vote was Duke. But if that's a no-go, maybe your boyfriend could request a deferral for two years at NYU to work and cover living expenses. He could retake as well.

[DaleCooper]

Duke and NYU are equivalent for placement, but CLS is better.

First off, all three are good schools. And all three place well, even by T14 standards. And none of the three are HYS level. But as for the chart...

The important number for NYU is [really damn good]. That's the percentage of people who got an offer out of OCI this year.* I assume Columbia's was at least [really damn good] as well, but probably not more than [amazing]. I don't know Duke's. Most of the people who don't do BigLaw or a clerkship from NYU (or Chicago) are going into other things that are just as good as BigLaw or a clerkship (or better), but are not counted in metrics that were designed to talk people out of going to T50 schools over T14s, not to distinguish between schools in the T14. If NLJ+A3 was a useful metric for intra-T14 measurements of placement power, Yale would not be #4 and Chicago would not be #8.

NYU gives out full rides to lots of people dependent on them going into government, nonprofit, prosecution, or public defense. And our LRAP is really, really good compared to certain other schools'. I am doing OCI to get a BigLaw offer during 2L summer, but I will be trying to get a government job for the long haul. This is not an unusual thing at NYU.

*For those wondering: Everybody with average or bad grades does OCI in this economy (except for a few PI zealots who don't want to sell out, though that's increasingly suicidal thanks to the current budget climate). And even the sub-3.0 people had a [surprisingly decent] chance of getting BigLaw this year. If you were 3.0-3.2, it was closer to [damn good]. TLS is just straight-up wrong about NYU's placement power, largely thanks to this year's inexplicable Penn trolling (usually by people who don't even go to Penn).

[Edit Note: Oops. Not supposed to disclose numbers. Which is weird, since they're both good and non-firm-specific. Oh well.]

[bananapudding88]

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[DaleCooper]

But maybe he could just stay in Philly one year longer and we could do long-distance? I guess that's also an option.

We have a lot of people here doing long-distance marriages in DC or Philly. It's not that bad.

[bananapudding88]

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[DoveBodyWash]

I will be trying to get a government job for the long haul.

Is it true the gov't pays off your loans if you're lucky enough to land a job with them? If so, anyone know how Duke vs. CLS does in government placement?

I think NYU has the best PI placement out of the three

[bananapudding88]

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[bananapudding88]

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[NYstate]

My original vote was Duke. But if that's a no-go, maybe your boyfriend could request a deferral for two years at NYU to work and cover living expenses. He could retake as well.

True! We'll need to discuss him taking a bit of time off. He's only taken the LSAT once and disliked the experience so much, he didn't want to take it again and decided to apply with just his one score. I'm confident he could do better after studying longer and taking it a second time. If that happens, he'd have a shot at good money at NYU and other places (including CLS as well, where he's currently "held" ). Problem is, he not a US citizen at the moment (is European) and wouldnt get a greencard through our marriage until the beginning of next year most likely, so it's not easy for him to just pack and move to NY (finding a place willing to sponsor a work visa is a beyotch). But maybe he could just stay in Philly one year longer and we could do long-distance? I guess that's also an option.

So yeah, another problem is his lack of citizenship and the fact that, for the first year, he would not be elgible for federal loans (only privates one)...

Fuuuuuuuuck

Get married sooner so that he can get loans. Make that a priority. Do another big wedding in the summer if you want to, just get married now so you can start the green card process. Although maybe private loans will offer a cheaper interest rate, you have no protections like IBR or PAYE.
You should just go to Columbia and he should go to NYU unless you can defer, work, save up money and then go. You are probably going to need biglaw wherever you go if you want to get out of debt faster, so go where you maximize your odds at getting biglaw.

PS. Can you post the totals of debt for both of you from these schools? Just looking at scholarship money makes it harder to calculate. Use the georgetown calculator.

[DaleCooper]

I will be trying to get a government job for the long haul.

Is it true the gov't pays off your loans if you're lucky enough to land a job with them? If so, anyone know how Duke vs. CLS does in government placement?

Sort of. IBR wipes out your debt after ten years of government service and loan payments, and the loan payments are covered by LRAP. And Columbia blows Duke up in high-level federal placement. As for Columbia vs. NYU, they win by a huge amount in some areas and tie in others. I'm not aware of anything we beat them on.

Our PI advantage comes from numbers, not prestige - we have way more people who want to do government. But if you go to Columbia and manage to not fall into the BigLaw-or-bust mentality, you'll probably have no trouble finding professors who will help you.

[NYstate]

I will be trying to get a government job for the long haul.

Is it true the gov't pays off your loans if you're lucky enough to land a job with them? If so, anyone know how Duke vs. CLS does in government placement?

You need to research this. The short answer is yes, but it takes 10 years and you have to make payments along the way.

Also: living together will be cheaper than paying for two separate places in NY and Philly.

[bananapudding88]

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[bananapudding88]

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[NYstate]

Get married sooner so that he can get loans. Make that a priority. Do another big wedding in the summer if you want to, just get married now so you can start the green card process. Although maybe private loans will offer a cheaper interest rate, you have no protections like IBR or PAYE.
You should just go to Columbia and he should go to NYU unless you can defer, work, save up money and then go. You are probably going to need biglaw wherever you go if you want to get out of debt faster, so go where you maximize your odds at getting biglaw.

Okay, in addition to sharing the numerous other jewels of wisdom I've reaped from this thread (Thank you all so much!!), I'll discuss with him the necessity of eloping, like, next week My family is very very culturally conservative, which is why this wasn't on the table before, but desperate times call for desperate measures! But I think one concern will still be his immigration status because there's no way his greencard will be out by the time school starts and he'll still need to apply for a student visa. Unfortunately, one of the preconditions for acquiring a student visa is that you *don't* intend to immigrate (and that you'll go back to your country after schooling). If immigration services find that he has a greencard application pending they might reject his student visa and then he'll be unemployed, greencard-less and school-less (and God knows I won't have the $$$ flow to support him)

Have you looked at immigration requirements at all? You need to have proof of support before you marry someone and bring them into the US. He shouldn't get a student visa if he is planning to marry you. You are absolutely correct that he will lose his student visa if they know he is planning to immigrate to the US. As he is planning to do this, I suggest that he not attempt to deceive the immigration service about this. Just my take on it. It may, at the end of the day, be fine. The immigration service may question why he came on a student visa when he is getting married. How will that timing work out?

Why not a fiance visa? You need some good advice on this and I can't give it to you. I think you should look at the immigration requirements.

[bananapudding88]

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[ironbmike]

Oh my god imagine being the child of these two parents

[bananapudding88]

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[ironbmike]

We both went to a very highly-ranked Ivy for UG and, douchey as it may sound to you, neither one of us wants to dip too far down the rankings for law school, especially me.

You don't have to understand it, but as an African-American woman I've always felt my resume/credentials had to be extra flawless and exceptional in order to compensate for my demographic

You mean to add onto a boost you already get over other people?

I aspire to study international human rights law and would love a career in the UN. Columbia's name is quite well known internationally and the opportunity to be in close proximity to the UN in NY is amazing (since my dad works for the UN and could help me land cool externships).

[NYstate]

Have you looked at immigration requirements at all? You need to have proof of support before you marry someone and bring them into the US. He shouldn't get a student visa if he is planning to marry you. You are absolutely correct that he will lose his student visa if they know he is planning to immigrate to the US. As he is planning to do this, I suggest that he not attempt to deceive the immigration service about this. Just my take on it. It may, at the end of the day, be fine. The immigration service may question why he came on a student visa when he is getting married. How will that timing work out?

Why not a fiance visa? You need some good advice on this and I can't give it to you. I think you should look at the immigration requirements.

Just to be clear, he is already living in the States and has been living here for the past 6 years. He's spoken with an immigration lawyer and was advised not to apply for a greencard until after we're in law school and he's secured an F-1 visa for the first year. We're getting married in June and, while that may raise eyebrows, it doesnt indicate 100% that he plans to immigrate because we could very well be planning on moving to his home country or another country all together post-schooling. A pending greencard application, however, would definitely raise alarm. Therefore, the plan is for us to get married, for him to transfer his work visa to a student visa, and then to apply for a greencard sometime during 1L.

Ok. As long as you have good advice. I don't know anything about transferring a work visa to a student visa. I'm surprised it won't make a difference that he has married a US citizen in the meantime. But that is a solid plan.

Good luck .

[NYstate]

You have now mentioned being a prestige whore more than a couple of times along with the almost forgone conclusion that you will work for the UN post law school graduation. With some respect, I could normally accept some of this bravado but for the fact that without your URM status you would have been lucky to get a T25 acceptance, much less Duke with money. I might be tad less boastful given those circumstances. That being said, I know a couple in my class with stas similar to your fiancee at Penn. Still, pick NYC and Columbia...the UN awaits

Dude, you know this is completely unacceptable.

[ironbmike]

You have now mentioned being a prestige whore more than a couple of times along with the almost forgone conclusion that you will work for the UN post law school graduation. With some respect, I could normally accept some of this bravado but for the fact that without your URM status you would have been lucky to get a T25 acceptance, much less Duke with money. I might be tad less boastful given those circumstances. That being said, I know a couple in my class with stas similar to your fiancee at Penn. Still, pick NYC and Columbia...the UN awaits

Dude, you know this is completely unacceptable.

Why? OP is a joke.