WUSL v. GW v. W&M Forum

[P1iXL85]

hey y'all, could use some input:
166 LSAT, 3.7 GPA
live in DC, want to work here
maybe IP, maybe PI for a few years, but no set path yet

received the following offers:
$30K from WUSL; $20K from W&M; $25K from Emory;.......and the kicker, $0K from GW

so approximate annual COA:
$32K WUSL; $30K W&M; $40K Emory; $70K GW

thoughts? i plan on negotiating with GW but suppose that that is for another forum.

[DoveBodyWash]

hey y'all, could use some input:
166 LSAT, 3.7 GPA
live in DC, want to work here
maybe IP, maybe PI for a few years, but no set path yet

received the following offers:
$30K from WUSL; $20K from W&M; $25K from Emory;.......and the kicker, $0K from GW

so approximate annual COA:
$32K WUSL; $30K W&M; $40K Emory; $70K GW

thoughts? i plan on negotiating with GW but suppose that that is for another forum.

I would say w&m or GW based on your market goals

ETA: FWIW def not Emory

[Nova]

GW at sticker is NEVER the answer.

[DoveBodyWash]

GW at sticker is NEVER the answer.

Agree but it's OPs best chance at DC, especially DC PI

[wannabelawstudent]

I think GW just hasn't made him an offer yet. Some people still haven't received one. If you wanna go to DC, W&M or GW is your best option. Don't even consider the others.

[matrim]

W&M is close to DC, ok job prospects, great school, and your debt would be minimized. GW is good, but not at sticker in my opinion, you should ask them for money, but as it is, W&M I think is good choice.

[hephaestus]

GW at sticker is NEVER the answer.

Agree but it's OPs best chance at DC, especially DC PI

No one has a good chance at DC. Even from a T14.
OP, what is your IP background?

[RetakeFrenzy]

I think GW just hasn't made him an offer yet. Some people still haven't received one.

Yes, I'm also waiting for my GW financial aid info to be released

[Nova]

I think GW just hasn't made him an offer yet. Some people still haven't received one.

Yes, I'm also waiting for my GW financial aid info to be released

Should be soon, right?

Deposits are coming up at a lot of places...

[DoveBodyWash]

GW at sticker is NEVER the answer.

Agree but it's OPs best chance at DC, especially DC PI

No one has a good chance at DC. Even from a T14.
OP, what is your IP background?

The LST score reports for GW and GULC would suggest otherwise. Also I never said GE gave him a secure chance at DC, I said it's his best chance (the implication being that it's relatively better than his other options)

The idea that DC is just a no-chance market for everyone is hyperbole. It's probably one of the most difficult, but ppl get jobs in DC. and it's clear that going to a major DC school or top T14 grades is the best way to get there. OP doesn't have T14 options. W&M is probably the better choice cuz it's the best balance between cost and placement. But GW is undoubtedly OP's best chance at the DC market.

[RetakeFrenzy]

I think GW just hasn't made him an offer yet. Some people still haven't received one.

Yes, I'm also waiting for my GW financial aid info to be released

Should be soon, right?

Deposits are coming up at a lot of places...

Yes, I emailed the admissions and they are apparently going through my file.

[hephaestus]

GW at sticker is NEVER the answer.

Agree but it's OPs best chance at DC, especially DC PI

No one has a good chance at DC. Even from a T14.
OP, what is your IP background?

The LST score reports for GW and GULC would suggest otherwise. Also I never said GE gave him a secure chance at DC, I said it's his best chance (the implication being that it's relatively better than his other options)

The idea that DC is just a no-chance market for everyone is hyperbole. It's probably one of the most difficult, but ppl get jobs in DC. and it's clear that going to a major DC school or top T14 grades is the best way to get there. OP doesn't have T14 options. W&M is probably the better choice cuz it's the best balance between cost and placement. But GW is undoubtedly OP's best chance at the DC market.

1. I did not say no-chance. I said good chance. DC is a hard market to get into. However, not everyone who wants it, gets it, obviously.
These schools self-select people that want to get into the DC market, lending the relatively high numbers. People with great grades from GULC may choose DC over the NYC V10s students of the same caliber would take at more NYC-centric T14s. That does not mean that most students can get it.
2. OP could have T14 options. GW at sticker is debt suicide and W&M places a negligible amount of people into desirable jobs in DC.
3. Best change =/= good chance
4. The answer to this question is also largely dependent on OP's IP background (if any).

[DoveBodyWash]

Agree but it's OPs best chance at DC, especially DC PI

No one has a good chance at DC. Even from a T14.
OP, what is your IP background?

The LST score reports for GW and GULC would suggest otherwise. Also I never said GE gave him a secure chance at DC, I said it's his best chance (the implication being that it's relatively better than his other options)

The idea that DC is just a no-chance market for everyone is hyperbole. It's probably one of the most difficult, but ppl get jobs in DC. and it's clear that going to a major DC school or top T14 grades is the best way to get there. OP doesn't have T14 options. W&M is probably the better choice cuz it's the best balance between cost and placement. But GW is undoubtedly OP's best chance at the DC market.

1. I did not say no-chance. I said good chance. DC is a hard market to get into. However, not everyone who wants it, gets it, obviously.
These schools self-select people that want to get into the DC market, lending the relatively high numbers. People with great grades from GULC may choose DC over the NYC V10s students of the same caliber would take at more NYC-centric T14s. That does not mean that most students can get it.
2. OP could have T14 options. GW at sticker is debt suicide and W&M places a negligible amount of people into desirable jobs in DC.
3. Best change =/= good chance
4. The answer to this question is also largely dependent on OP's IP background (if any).

I don't think we're disagreeing about anything here, just responding to different issues. It seems like you're talking about whether OP should be considering any these options at ALL. I'm simply saying that IF these are truly OP's only choices (whether because OP lacks alternatives or because these are the only options he/she has deemed desirable) then GW would provide the best chance at the DC market. Especially considering OP's ties. But like I said, W&M is probably the better choice here because GW at sticker is indeed debt suicide. But that's up to the OP, IF they're prioritizing chances at DC over debt, then GW is the clear choice.

FWIW I think if OP had T14 options then he/she would have posted them here.

[AP-375]

W&M student here. I wouldn't underestimate how well W&M does in DC. It seems like kids with at least decent grades can find something in DC, if that is where they are looking. I think W&M's placement there would be higher if DC was its clear primary market, as it is for GW, but W&M has a more diffused employment market.
I would never take GW at sticker over W&M with $$$.

[hephaestus]

I don't think we're disagreeing about anything here, just responding to different issues. It seems like you're talking about whether OP should be considering any these options at ALL. I'm simply saying that IF these are truly OP's only choices (whether because OP lacks alternatives or because these are the only options he/she has deemed desirable) then GW would provide the best chance at the DC market. Especially considering OP's ties. But like I said, W&M is probably the better choice here because GW at sticker is indeed debt suicide. But that's up to the OP, IF they're prioritizing chances at DC over debt, then GW is the clear choice.

FWIW I think if OP had T14 options then he/she would have posted them here.

True. I would say retake, but I am biased because I retook twice and it turned out well for me. I think these options are just too expensive for the ROI. If OP has a tech background, I think there is a good case for W&M. If not, I think its a classic retake + reapply situation.

[wannabelawstudent]

.

[DoveBodyWash]

I don't think we're disagreeing about anything here, just responding to different issues. It seems like you're talking about whether OP should be considering any these options at ALL. I'm simply saying that IF these are truly OP's only choices (whether because OP lacks alternatives or because these are the only options he/she has deemed desirable) then GW would provide the best chance at the DC market. Especially considering OP's ties. But like I said, W&M is probably the better choice here because GW at sticker is indeed debt suicide. But that's up to the OP, IF they're prioritizing chances at DC over debt, then GW is the clear choice.

FWIW I think if OP had T14 options then he/she would have posted them here.

True. I would say retake, but I am biased because I retook twice and it turned out well for me. I think these options are just too expensive for the ROI. If OP has a tech background, I think there is a good case for W&M. If not, I think its a classic retake + reapply situation.

+1

OP, you could have much better results with that GPA if you managed to pull your LSAT up 2-4 points. If you're dead set on attending this year..then W&M (considering your goals). But if not...it would be a huge waste of a solid GPA if you didn't re-take and re-apply

[P1iXL85]

thanks for all the feedback, and thanks in advance for any more.

btw, no technical IP background, just interest and some related undergrad coursework. no T14 options at this point (waitlist @ cornell)

i'll be in touch with GW and see what comes of it. GMU and UMD are other options, but I'll have no regrets going W&M.

[DoveBodyWash]

thanks for all the feedback, and thanks in advance for any more.

btw, no technical IP background, just interest and some related undergrad coursework. no T14 options at this point (waitlist @ cornell)

i'll be in touch with GW and see what comes of it. GMU and UMD are other options, but I'll have no regrets going W&M.

Not sure if this is what you meant by undergrad course work but you need a science degree of some sort (B.S., M.S., Ph.D) to be eligible to sit for the patent bar. IP generally isn't something you can just opt into without hard science credentials.

[hephaestus]

thanks for all the feedback, and thanks in advance for any more.

btw, no technical IP background, just interest and some related undergrad coursework. no T14 options at this point (waitlist @ cornell)

i'll be in touch with GW and see what comes of it. GMU and UMD are other options, but I'll have no regrets going W&M.

Not sure if this is what you meant by undergrad course work but you need a science degree of some sort (B.S., M.S., Ph.D) to be eligible to sit for the patent bar. IP generally isn't something you can just opt into without hard science credentials.

Exactly. OP, have you considered working a year and retaking?

[romothesavior]

GW at sticker is NEVER the answer.

Agree but it's OPs best chance at DC, especially DC PI

It's an awful idea regardless of where he wants to work. GW at sticker is about as bad a decision there is. Actually, just about every law school at sticker is an awful idea.

OP, have you tried negotiating with WUSTL and the others?

[cahwc12]

hey y'all, could use some input:
166 LSAT, 3.7 GPA
live in DC, want to work here
maybe IP, maybe PI for a few years, but no set path yet

received the following offers:
$30K from WUSL; $20K from W&M; $25K from Emory;.......and the kicker, $0K from GW

so approximate annual COA:
$32K WUSL; $30K W&M; $40K Emory; $70K GW

thoughts? i plan on negotiating with GW but suppose that that is for another forum.

You shouldn't accept any of these offers. +2 points on your LSAT would give you a full ride at every one of these schools. Study and take the test again. Take it twice more if you need to. Don't throw away hundreds of thousands of dollars of your future earnings (or federal taxpayer monies if you end up unemployed) because you don't want to study for a hundred hours or so over a couple months.

If you are absolutely committed and determined to attend law school among these choices, you need to hustle the financial aid offices and get those initial scholarship offers bumped and the schools working against each other in a bidding war for your numbers. Then you need to choose whatever GW's best offer is and take that to their PART-TIME program so that you can work full-time while in law school. While this is by all accounts an unpleasant experience for three years, you'll be able to earn 3 years of salary that you simply can't get by attending these other schools (or GW full-time). This will be the best way for you to maximize your probability for a positive outcome, assuming you can't be convinced to retake.

But truly you should retake and go to any of these schools for free. You should study for the June LSAT and see how much you can improve. If you do, you'll have even greater leverage in scholarship negotiation.

[timbs4339]

thanks for all the feedback, and thanks in advance for any more.

btw, no technical IP background, just interest and some related undergrad coursework. no T14 options at this point (waitlist @ cornell)

i'll be in touch with GW and see what comes of it. GMU and UMD are other options, but I'll have no regrets going W&M.

Yeah you need a hard science degree to do IP. Otherwise you're just out there trying to get biglaw like everyone else, which ain't happening from W+M.

[deuceindc]

Then you need to choose whatever GW's best offer is and take that to their PART-TIME program so that you can work full-time while in law school.

This is a fantastic idea - but it won't work. GW's FT and PT scholarship pools are separate. Switching to PT from a FT application/scholly means you forefeit your FT money and they have to re-evaulate you based on what's left in PT.

Source: I'm in almost the exact same situation and talked to Dean Maggs and Dean Sim about it.

[cahwc12]

Then you need to choose whatever GW's best offer is and take that to their PART-TIME program so that you can work full-time while in law school.

This is a fantastic idea - but it won't work. GW's FT and PT scholarship pools are separate. Switching to PT from a FT application/scholly means you forefeit your FT money and they have to re-evaulate you based on what's left in PT.

Source: I'm in almost the exact same situation and talked to Dean Maggs and Dean Sim about it.

This is good to know, thanks. I don't want to spread misinformation. What else can you say about their PT vs FT scholarship offers?