Second Tier Schools

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JustHawkin
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Second Tier Schools

Postby JustHawkin » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:15 pm

After a long time lurking I have decided to seek some TLS insight. Having a 155 and a 3.5 (URM) I have been accepted this cycle to a couple of second tier law schools (50-100) in the northeast, the area in which I am from. I have few scholarship offers around 10k for schools that cost ~40k per year. Personally, I would attend these schools if I could get more scholarship money. My question to TLS would be: Would withdrawing from this cycle hurt my chances at the same schools next cycle? I thought about retaking in June, but I feel I should concentrate on my last undergrad semester and I plan on really swing for the fences in October. I know if I did get a better score I would love to be able to break into some T25 schools but I would also want to entertain the option of attending a regional school at little to no cost of tuition. Discovering this board after I took last October's LSAT has given me the confidence to be able to crush it if I retake. Any help would be appreciated!

Edit: update at the bottom for this cycle
Last edited by JustHawkin on Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby shifty_eyed » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:17 pm

JustHawkin wrote: My question to TLS would be: Would withdrawing from this cycle hurt my chances at the same schools next cycle?


NOPE. Just crush your last semester and then move on to LSAT beast mode. GOOD LUCK! 8)

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northwood
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby northwood » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:21 pm

JustHawkin wrote:After a long time lurking I have decided to seek some TLS insight. Having a 155 and a 3.5 (URM) I have been accepted this cycle to a couple of second tier law schools (50-100) in the northeast, the area in which I am from. I have few scholarship offers around 10k for schools that cost ~40k per year. Personally, I would attend these schools if I could get more scholarship money. My question to TLS would be: Would withdrawing from this cycle hurt my chances at the same schools next cycle? I thought about retaking in June, but I feel I should concentrate on my last undergrad semester and I plan on really swing for the fences in October. I know if I did get a better score I would love to be able to break into some T25 schools but I would also want to entertain the option of attending a regional school at little to no cost of tuition. Discovering this board after I took last October's LSAT has given me the confidence to be able to crush it if I retake. Any help would be appreciated!



I would withdraw. It won't hurt your chances next cycle, especially if you do better on the LSAT. If the application asks why you are withdrawing again, you can make find a valid reason pretty easily. TT schools are very regional, so you need to be completely sure about your decision about going there. Enjoy the last semester of undergrad, use the summer to study for the LSAT, and apply as soon as you get your score( finish your applications and essays before you start studying in the summer and again when you wait for your scores to come out).

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Dmini7
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby Dmini7 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:28 pm

Withdraw. What kind of URM are ya? If you are an AA, get above a 160 and have a very solid shot of breaking into the T14. If nothing else getting a 160 should get you a ton of money from the current schools you are looking at since that should put your LSAT around there median if not above. Withdrawing will be the best thing you could possibly do in your situation :). So, to summarize, no it won't hurt you with these schools, and if you do better if could only help.

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JustHawkin
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby JustHawkin » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:55 pm

shifty_eyed wrote:NOPE. Just crush your last semester and then move on to LSAT beast mode. GOOD LUCK! 8)

Thanks!

northwood wrote:I would withdraw. It won't hurt your chances next cycle, especially if you do better on the LSAT. If the application asks why you are withdrawing again, you can make find a valid reason pretty easily.

What would these schools view as a valid reason? Personally, I think a change in my application (new LSAT, legal PI summer internship, a year of work experience, some final academic awards), along with making my financial situation more sustainable by saving money would suffice, yes?

Dmini7 wrote:Withdraw. What kind of URM are ya?

Hispanic. Not technically TLS URM definition, but I have seen a substantial boost this cycle that could be credited to this.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:59 pm

JustHawkin wrote:
shifty_eyed wrote:NOPE. Just crush your last semester and then move on to LSAT beast mode. GOOD LUCK! 8)

Thanks!

northwood wrote:I would withdraw. It won't hurt your chances next cycle, especially if you do better on the LSAT. If the application asks why you are withdrawing again, you can make find a valid reason pretty easily.

What would these schools view as a valid reason? Personally, I think a change in my application (new LSAT, legal PI summer internship, a year of work experience, some final academic awards), along with making my financial situation more sustainable by saving money would suffice, yes?

Dmini7 wrote:Withdraw. What kind of URM are ya?

Hispanic. Not technically TLS URM definition, but I have seen a substantial boost this cycle that could be credited to this.

There's only 1 definition. Hispanic from the Caribbean Islands tend to be URM. The boost is more likely due to apps being down 20%. A 155 is generally sufficient for tier 2s. Often the difference between a tier 2 and tier 14 is the stamina to retake. Often, this is the difference between 160k+ and moving back in with the parents.

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northwood
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby northwood » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:00 pm

just state that you did not want to rush into a decision, wanted to take a break from academia travel, work, etc.

just don't say " I withdrew because I wanted more money".... even though that's why you did, and the adcom knows it.. you just gotta play the game

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JustHawkin
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby JustHawkin » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:48 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:There's only 1 definition. Hispanic from the Caribbean Islands tend to be URM. The boost is more likely due to apps being down 20%. A 155 is generally sufficient for tier 2s. Often the difference between a tier 2 and tier 14 is the stamina to retake. Often, this is the difference between 160k+ and moving back in with the parents.

Then I am a URM.
northwood wrote:just state that you did not want to rush into a decision, wanted to take a break from academia travel, work, etc.

just don't say " I withdrew because I wanted more money".... even though that's why you did, and the adcom knows it.. you just gotta play the game

This makes sense. What you stated is also completely true for me. Although I would like to go straight K-JD(and most family, significant other, academic advisor are pushing me towards), I feel that the learning experience I will gain from being patient, studying for a great LSAT score, and gaining some extra work experience will help towards my maturity in law school rather than rushing into a major life decision.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:59 pm

The people who get the pre-law advising jobs - idk how they get those jobs but they have no necessary credentials, or haven't kept up with the market. Most t-14 law students today would be a better fit for these. Go by data, and just don't piss off anyone in the admissions office. That's all it is. It's data..... likely a stock broker would be a better pre-law adviser than the douche advising you.

Data doesn't lie. It doesn't necessarily predict the future, but is the best predictor you have. You can be confident in your abilities, but realize still that you are a statistic. I am a statistic. Other posters are statistics. We are all statistics. We must make smart bets, and only risk when the odds are >50% when investing big $, including investing in yourself.

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JustHawkin
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby JustHawkin » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:25 am

bananapeanutbutter wrote:The people who get the pre-law advising jobs - idk how they get those jobs but they have no necessary credentials, or haven't kept up with the market. Most t-14 law students today would be a better fit for these. Go by data, and just don't piss off anyone in the admissions office. That's all it is. It's data..... likely a stock broker would be a better pre-law adviser than the douche advising you.

Yeah, advising hasn't been much help to me regarding any part of the application process. I think I've gotten more and better advice here...

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togepi
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby togepi » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:44 am

As long as you explain yourself correctly you should be fine. Study hard for the LSAT and come back asking which T14 to go to or which regional to attend for free :)

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:57 pm

togepi wrote:As long as you explain yourself correctly you should be fine. Study hard for the LSAT and come back asking which T14 to go to or which regional to attend for free :)

I can see a TT seeing it as an attempt to just get more $, which isn't what they want because your 170 won't do much for their overall ranking and they want you to pay sticker. Retaking is like coming back to the store with a coupon. I'd prob word it as that you view it as a personal challenge to do your best on the LSAT more for the test's sake, and not because of a lack of interest in their school. It isn't completely false. It might be misleading and deceptive, but so are their job prospects.

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romothesavior
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:14 pm

shifty_eyed wrote:
JustHawkin wrote: My question to TLS would be: Would withdrawing from this cycle hurt my chances at the same schools next cycle?


NOPE. Just crush your last semester and then move on to LSAT beast mode. GOOD LUCK! 8)

This.

A 160+/3.6+ would be a killer set of numbers for a URM, and could probably get you some great scholarship offers at decent regional schools in your area. Retake is absolutely the correct move here.

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JustHawkin
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby JustHawkin » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:03 pm

romothesavior wrote:A 160+/3.6+ would be a killer set of numbers for a URM, and could probably get you some great scholarship offers at decent regional schools in your area. Retake is absolutely the correct move here.

I've seen a lot of your advice around the board and glad you chimed in! Realistically, I think the most I can end up with after this semester is a 3.5-3.55. My goal on a retake would be 165+. I personally lean towards retake because I feel if I accept anything less than 165 I am wasting a decent GPA, URM, and some really good softs. I feel the people who have advised me to take the offers in front of me don't understand how much the LSAT score weighs in this process. I would also hate to play the coulda, shoulda, woulda game three years down the road when I am scrambling to pay the loans back.

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romothesavior
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:21 pm

You've definitely got the right idea. I know it is hard to convince the people IRL that retake is the right move, but ultimately it'll be your future at stake and your name on those student loans. You've gotta do the right thing for you, and it sounds like you already know what that is. A few points would help a lot, and a 165+ would be a complete gamechanger. Your 3.5 is solid, and it won't hold you back much if you can do well on your retake. Be sure to stick around here and utilize the LSAT resources and community we've got on TLS, and hopefully we'll be hearing about you heading off to a T14 with money this time next year. Good luck.

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JustHawkin
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby JustHawkin » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:01 pm

romothesavior wrote:You've definitely got the right idea. I know it is hard to convince the people IRL that retake is the right move, but ultimately it'll be your future at stake and your name on those student loans. You've gotta do the right thing for you, and it sounds like you already know what that is. A few points would help a lot, and a 165+ would be a complete gamechanger. Your 3.5 is solid, and it won't hold you back much if you can do well on your retake. Be sure to stick around here and utilize the LSAT resources and community we've got on TLS, and hopefully we'll be hearing about you heading off to a T14 with money this time next year. Good luck.

The only thing that worries me about aiming for a T14, would taking the LSAT in October and only being able to complete once I submit my score ~Nov. 1 hinder me? Would that be considered a late application?

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Rahviveh
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby Rahviveh » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:03 pm

JustHawkin wrote:
romothesavior wrote:You've definitely got the right idea. I know it is hard to convince the people IRL that retake is the right move, but ultimately it'll be your future at stake and your name on those student loans. You've gotta do the right thing for you, and it sounds like you already know what that is. A few points would help a lot, and a 165+ would be a complete gamechanger. Your 3.5 is solid, and it won't hold you back much if you can do well on your retake. Be sure to stick around here and utilize the LSAT resources and community we've got on TLS, and hopefully we'll be hearing about you heading off to a T14 with money this time next year. Good luck.

The only thing that worries me about aiming for a T14, would taking the LSAT in October and only being able to complete once I submit my score ~Nov. 1 hinder me? Would that be considered a late application?


Nah, November is fine, even by TLS gunner standards

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romothesavior
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:04 pm

JustHawkin wrote:
romothesavior wrote:You've definitely got the right idea. I know it is hard to convince the people IRL that retake is the right move, but ultimately it'll be your future at stake and your name on those student loans. You've gotta do the right thing for you, and it sounds like you already know what that is. A few points would help a lot, and a 165+ would be a complete gamechanger. Your 3.5 is solid, and it won't hold you back much if you can do well on your retake. Be sure to stick around here and utilize the LSAT resources and community we've got on TLS, and hopefully we'll be hearing about you heading off to a T14 with money this time next year. Good luck.

The only thing that worries me about aiming for a T14, would taking the LSAT in October and only being able to complete once I submit my score ~Nov. 1 hinder me? Would that be considered a late application?

Not at all. Early November is plenty early. You could even retake in December if you really have to (i.e. if you don't hit your PT scores on the real deal).

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JustHawkin
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby JustHawkin » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:04 pm

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Last edited by JustHawkin on Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ganja
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby ganja » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:30 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:
JustHawkin wrote:
shifty_eyed wrote:NOPE. Just crush your last semester and then move on to LSAT beast mode. GOOD LUCK! 8)

Thanks!

northwood wrote:I would withdraw. It won't hurt your chances next cycle, especially if you do better on the LSAT. If the application asks why you are withdrawing again, you can make find a valid reason pretty easily.

What would these schools view as a valid reason? Personally, I think a change in my application (new LSAT, legal PI summer internship, a year of work experience, some final academic awards), along with making my financial situation more sustainable by saving money would suffice, yes?

Dmini7 wrote:Withdraw. What kind of URM are ya?

Hispanic. Not technically TLS URM definition, but I have seen a substantial boost this cycle that could be credited to this.

There's only 1 definition. Hispanic from the Caribbean Islands tend to be URM.

So is Cuban considered URM?

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twenty
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Re: Second Tier Schools

Postby twenty » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:44 am

ganja wrote:So is Cuban considered URM?


No, Puerto Rican or Mexican is, Cuban is not. Though Cuban is kind of considered a "URM-lite" and Cuban LSN users seem to outperform their non-URM counterparts.




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