Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

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EternalDebt
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Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby EternalDebt » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:00 pm

I'm currently trying to decide between these three schools. Case Western has offered me a 20k annual scholarship with a 5k stipend. LSU has offered me an 18k annual scholarship with a 5k stipend. Michigan State has offered me half tuition (55k over three years) and a 3k stipend. I currently work on the east coast/south/rust belt within an environmental remediation company. After law school I plan to return to this company, (my position is guaranteed). My interests lie in environmental and business law, as they will best suit the needs of said company. If anyone can help me choose or offer any insight I would greatly appreciate it. (As a side notw I have been accepted to American but have received nothing in terms of scholarships. Consequently I have ruled AU out despite their higher ranking)

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TripTrip
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Re: Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby TripTrip » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:41 pm

WTF is with those stipends on partial tuition scholarships?

OP, what are your career goals? If you have a guaranteed job, why are you going to law school? What do you want to do later?

LSU has wicked better employment prospects than its peers (and AU), but I imagine that is dependent on your being from/having ties to the Baton Rouge area.

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cinephile
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Re: Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby cinephile » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:47 pm

You can't ever be 100% sure that your position will still be there. Things happen, especially over a 3 year period. Just try to find the best school near where you work and go to school part-time.

timbs4339
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Re: Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:53 pm

cinephile wrote:You can't ever be 100% sure that your position will still be there. Things happen, especially over a 3 year period. Just try to find the best school near where you work and go to school part-time.


If your position is truly guaranteed, then you can (1) work there during the school year and reduce costs, (2) they won't care where you get your degree (no, better ranked law schools in far away places are not going to teach you very much substantive business or environmental law to be worth the extra cost of leaving your job). If not or the company fails/cuts jobs/decides it doesn't need another lawyer, then you have hedged your bets.

EternalDebt
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Re: Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby EternalDebt » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:59 pm

I assume the stipends are to aid in relocating to the surrounding region. My goal is to assist the current company I work for and our partners in their dealings with the EPA/state regulatory committees. Additionally, I plan to aid said employer with any legal issues in the realm of client and employee relations. The company is based out of Tennessee, but we conduct business across the previously specified area (contracting work). With a Juris Doctorate, I plan to work within this small business market and protect the interests of said companies.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:04 pm

EternalDebt wrote:I assume the stipends are to aid in relocating to the surrounding region. My goal is to assist the current company I work for and our partners in their dealings with the EPA/state regulatory committees. Additionally, I plan to aid said employer with any legal issues in the realm of client and employee relations. The company is based out of Tennessee, but we conduct business across the previously specified area (contracting work). With a Juris Doctorate, I plan to work within this small business market and protect the interests of said companies.

can you get a contract for the remaining job, and then just go anywhere for free.... it's the same education.

it's not unreasonable to request a contract for this, being it's a huge commitment. if they were serious, they'd sign it. just get a 2 year contract to take effect xxxxxx pending you passing the bar in that state.

EternalDebt
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Re: Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby EternalDebt » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:06 pm

My current position within the company isn't sustainable. The owners plan for me to attend full-time and return afterward. If for any reason the company implodes, I can still find work with our partners. I would like to go the best school possible in order to develop a personal network in case of catastrophic unforeseen circumstances that would force me to work elsewhere. I enjoy working in environmental remediation/UXO clean-up and would like to continue work in this sector as an attorney.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:12 pm

EternalDebt wrote:My current position within the company isn't sustainable. The owners plan for me to attend full-time and return afterward. If for any reason the company implodes, I can still find work with our partners. I would like to go the best school possible in order to develop a personal network in case of catastrophic unforeseen circumstances that would force me to work elsewhere. I enjoy working in environmental remediation/UXO clean-up and would like to continue work in this sector as an attorney.

you won't really develop a network. there aren't exactly big time lawyers walking around any of these schools for you to meet. if you were them, you'd just send in the check and if you see 2 equal resumes favor your alma-matters.

your friends won't have the power to help you out for many years...... the biggest network you get is you apply to a firm 5 yrs after you graduate and they ask your classmate whose there if you're a good guy.

you may meet people at events who can hire you, but not at these schools. if the firm won't commit you with legal liability, the only safe bet is to assume they won't hire you to be a lawyer. therefore, you want a school that will grant you independent prospects, which these schools likely will not.

PRgradBYU
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Re: Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby PRgradBYU » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:18 pm

TripTrip wrote:WTF is with those stipends on partial tuition scholarships?

OP, what are your career goals? If you have a guaranteed job, why are you going to law school? What do you want to do later?


I've never seen those either. They don't make sense... but if you have a guaranteed job lined up after law school, OP, just go to the cheapest school possible.

EternalDebt
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Re: Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby EternalDebt » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:23 pm

So, you're saying that none of these schools are worth attending? I know the general consensus on this forum is top 25 or bust, but it would seem that a J.D. from one of these schools would have to count for something. I just find it hard to believe that a tier 2 law school offers no chance for gainful employment. I'm still awaiting replies from Tulane, Maryland, and Illinois which were some of my first choices. Case, LSU, and Michigan are schools that I will pit against them based on current scholarship offers, that is, if I'm accepted. Hopefully the TLS verdict on these three will bode better than my current options.

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TripTrip
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Re: Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby TripTrip » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:29 pm

EternalDebt wrote:So, you're saying that none of these schools are worth attending? I know the general consensus on this forum is top 25 or bust, but it would seem that a J.D. from one of these schools would have to count for something. I just find it hard to believe that a tier 2 law school offers no chance for gainful employment. I'm still awaiting replies from Tulane, Maryland, and Illinois which were some of my first choices. Case, LSU, and Michigan are schools that I will pit against them based on current scholarship offers, that is, if I'm accepted. Hopefully the TLS verdict on these three will bode better than my current options.

The TLS verdict will bode better when you show an offer with a large scholarship!

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:29 pm

EternalDebt wrote:So, you're saying that none of these schools are worth attending? I know the general consensus on this forum is top 25 or bust, but it would seem that a J.D. from one of these schools would have to count for something. I just find it hard to believe that a tier 2 law school offers no chance for gainful employment. I'm still awaiting replies from Tulane, Maryland, and Illinois which were some of my first choices. Case, LSU, and Michigan are schools that I will pit against them based on current scholarship offers, that is, if I'm accepted. Hopefully the TLS verdict on these three will bode better than my current options.

No, I wouldn't personally do it, and I'm not big on prestige. The odds of it producing a middle class life, like 50k a yr are below 50% which when given 100k in debt makes no sense. You can make 50k doing much less work in many other professions without the debt. To me law is only worth it for >150k salaries or doing something really rewarding like being an ADA or public defender, but these are just as hard to get.

timbs4339
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Re: Case Western vs. LSU vs. Michigan State

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:43 pm

EternalDebt wrote:So, you're saying that none of these schools are worth attending? I know the general consensus on this forum is top 25 or bust, but it would seem that a J.D. from one of these schools would have to count for something. I just find it hard to believe that a tier 2 law school offers no chance for gainful employment. I'm still awaiting replies from Tulane, Maryland, and Illinois which were some of my first choices. Case, LSU, and Michigan are schools that I will pit against them based on current scholarship offers, that is, if I'm accepted. Hopefully the TLS verdict on these three will bode better than my current options.


What we're saying is that USNWR ranking is deceptive. Job prospects drop off significantly after the top 14, and ranking starts to correlate less and less with job prospects. The vast majority of ABA schools will place a handful of people into prestigious jobs, a large chunk into local or regional legal jobs paying about 40-60K, and a large chunk will be un or underemployed, whether the school is ranked 30, 50, 80, or 120. About 14 have significantly better placement into elite jobs, and about 30 have absolutely terrible, abysmal, sub 40% job placement. Check out this graph: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=guides&show=13

USNWR also doesn't really measure quality of education in the sense that you learn substantive or practical skills that will give you a leg up on the job market. The education is the same at most schools.

So you think you are getting a hiring benefit by leaving an area where you have a job to go to a higher-ranked out-of-state school. It doesn't work that way. It might actually lower your options by leaving you with more debt and not allowing you to maintain ties with the current company by working and going part-time.




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