California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

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Lavitz
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby Lavitz » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:54 pm

Michigan and NYU should be out; USC should be out if they don't offer more money; Cornell and UVA would have to match NU's offer to be contenders; Berkeley would have to match Michigan's offer.

So that leaves UCLA and NU for now, and since you're visiting NYC on Thursday and NU on Friday, you should be able tell from that whether a) you'd be ok with living in Chicago for 3 years and b) you'd be willing to change your mind and work in NYC as a backup.

Based on your hatred of cold weather and willingness to do pretty much any job as long as it's in CA, I'd lean toward UCLA at the moment.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby twinkletoes16 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:55 pm

bk1 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:This is good advice, though I tend to assume people w 6 figs debt will take the biglaw offer in NYC out of 2L OCI if they strike out on CA firms from NU rather than putz around and try to find something after graduation

Yeah I dunno. It's easy to say in the abstract that you'd prefer a 50k job in CA but when offered an NYC biglaw job (because you bid it as a backup) I'm not necessarily sure people would turn it down. Especially when getting the smalllaw job in CA takes a lot of 2L/3L hustling that is avoided for people who choose to take the biglaw job handed to them on a platter.

OP, I'm not saying that you would prefer NYC biglaw over CA smalllaw, but I do think you need to think long and hard about what you really want.



This is very true and something I'm trying to grapple with. My primary concern is that after NYC biglaw, then what? I'll have been out of CA since high school, essentially, and there's limited data on what people do/how they fare after the first biglaw job. There's no way to know if I'd be able to get back to CA at all and I don't want to close myself out.

My other concern is that if I suck at law school and strike out at OCI, graduating from NU with 6 figures and being out of CA seems scarier, especially since you said that being out of state almost the entire year would limit hustling.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby twinkletoes16 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:56 pm

Lavitz wrote:Michigan and NYU should be out; USC should be out if they don't offer more money; Cornell and UVA would have to match NU's offer to be contenders; Berkeley would have to match Michigan's offer.

So that leaves UCLA and NU for now, and since you're visiting NYC on Thursday and NU on Friday, you should be able tell from that whether a) you'd be ok with living in Chicago for 3 years and b) you'd be willing to change your mind and work in NYC as a backup.

Based on your hatred of cold weather and willingness to do pretty much any job as long as it's in CA, I'd lean toward UCLA at the moment.



you're a freaky mind reader and I love it, Lav.

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untar614
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby untar614 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:00 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
I see you don't succumb to the I'm sad->sleep and Netflix->eat->even sadder so can't bring myself to study spiral.

When I was happy my senior year of UG, I did my best by a lot. Had a ridiculously busy social life and got my best grades then. anecdotal but it's what works for me.

huh, that's not something I'd heard of. I can definitely get more done when I'm being antisocial, though I'm not as happy. Socializing takes time.

If Berk will match and get COA down to the 150 range, that seems like the answer. If not, it really depends on if you want CA or biglaw more. If CA is most important, I guess UCLA is the way to go. If well-paying job is more important, then NW. Personally job prospects outweigh location to me as long as its not a job in bumblef*ck rural nowhere. I have no clue as to what the reality is, but I've heard a few horror stories of UCLA grads above median who couldn't get jobs, though it looks like they made a good jump from last year's employment.

How does UCLA, come out to almost 40k less than NW? the scholarship difference is only 15k, and LA has a way higher CoL.

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hephaestus
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby hephaestus » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:04 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Boalt is retardedly expensive



This is true. I just don't understand how they can get so many people to go for what is essentially sticker. :shock:

Do they not do the matching scholarship anymore?
Also go to NU.
Edit: saw you were waiting to hear from Boalt. Also, I think the gain you realize from NU is worth dealing with cold weather for 3 years. Also, Chicago is a great city.
Last edited by hephaestus on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:04 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:This is very true and something I'm trying to grapple with. My primary concern is that after NYC biglaw, then what? I'll have been out of CA since high school, essentially, and there's limited data on what people do/how they fare after the first biglaw job. There's no way to know if I'd be able to get back to CA at all and I don't want to close myself out.

My other concern is that if I suck at law school and strike out at OCI, graduating from NU with 6 figures and being out of CA seems scarier, especially since you said that being out of state almost the entire year would limit hustling.

This is all second hand info and my impressions from talking to people: I don't think it's necessarily that difficult to lateral from NYC biglaw to CA biglaw, especially if the practice group is in demand (as M&A was last year, iirc). It's probably harder for litigators to switch states but I really don't know about that.

The other thing to consider is that the type of law that small firms do is markedly different from the type of law that big firms do. It is scary to strike out and have 6 figures worth of debt. That's the benefit of UCLA, being cheaper and easier to hustle for a CA job. I did not mean to imply that getting a smalllaw job in CA from NU would be extremely difficult, just that it would be easier coming from UCLA.

rad lulz
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:41 pm

bk1 wrote:This is all second hand info and my impressions from talking to people: I don't think it's necessarily that difficult to lateral from NYC biglaw to CA biglaw, especially if the practice group is in demand (as M&A was last year, iirc). It's probably harder for litigators to switch states but I really don't know about that.

The other thing to consider is that the type of law that small firms do is markedly different from the type of law that big firms do. It is scary to strike out and have 6 figures worth of debt. That's the benefit of UCLA, being cheaper and easier to hustle for a CA job. I did not mean to imply that getting a smalllaw job in CA from NU would be extremely difficult, just that it would be easier coming from UCLA.

It seems that a lot of it depends on what you do. Are you doing hedge fund work? Probably harder to move. M&A or general commercial lit? Probably easier. I haven't talked to a lot of people about it.

That's the thing I've found about going to an "elite" school. Outside of OCI, the benefits of going to a name brand place seem to decrease as people who are actually IN those places you want to work reap the benefits of networking, working as a clerk for a small firm while also in school, interning with local govt (is local govt. hiring still a thing in CA?), etc.

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Lasers
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby Lasers » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:55 pm

i'd be surprised if usc doesn't at least match ucla's offer based on how it seems they've been throwing money around this cycle.

as it stands, i would probably take ucla.

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bk1
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:00 am

rad lulz wrote:It seems that a lot of it depends on what you do. Are you doing hedge fund work? Probably harder to move. M&A or general commercial lit? Probably easier. I haven't talked to a lot of people about it.

That's the thing I've found about going to an "elite" school. Outside of OCI, the benefits of going to a name brand place seem to decrease as people who are actually IN those places you want to work reap the benefits of networking, working as a clerk for a small firm while also in school, interning with local govt (is local govt. hiring still a thing in CA?), etc.

Agree with all of this. And I doubt local gov hiring is a thing in CA. Though maybe it's rebounded recently? I don't think so but I could be wrong.

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Redamon1
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby Redamon1 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:03 am

Sorry Berkeley isn't being more responsive. Don't hesitate to keep lobbying them. You have nothing to loose by explaining (again) your situation and your strong interest in attending. Be somewhat specific in your communication with them about how much $ you'd need to see for you to go there.

If you do lean towards UCLA, I would try to negotiate a full ride. It's probably a stretch, but there again you have nothing to loose. And that NU scholarship is great leverage.

Good luck!

MrHairyLegs
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby MrHairyLegs » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:03 am

I'd keep lobbying Cal for that money and if no goes, then NU over UCLA. I might sound like a prestige whore but hear it goes: You've done too well in college and on the LSAT to settle for UCLA over a T-14 over what--in the grand scheme of things--is not that much money. You hit the nail on the head when you said law school is an investment. Northwestern sounds and looks better, will follow you forever in your career and will get you back to Cali once you do well in school. UCLA sounds nice at such little cost, but I just couldn't pull that trigger I were you. But since you like warm weather and are family-oriented, UCLA is an option; you'd have to fight to make the top 30% (I have no clue what exactly) to have a chance at making decent money and justifying the opportunity cost of losing three precious years (I could be completely wrong about this as I haven't researched UCLA's employment outcomes). Just my two cents. Best of luck to you. =]

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jbagelboy
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:59 am

I doubt with 40K/yr that NU would put you over 100,000K in debt unless you intend to make 0$ working during the year/summers and you are a heavy spender. UCLA is not even a significantly cheaper option here. I think Boalt w/ 75K is clear winner with NU a close second.

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bk1
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:31 pm

jbagelboy wrote:I doubt with 40K/yr that NU would put you over 100,000K in debt unless you intend to make 0$ working during the year/summers and you are a heavy spender.

There's no guarantee that OP will get paying work for the summer. Most 1Ls don't get paid, though some do get grants. Some instead get credit (and loans). Even if a 2L SA is likely (which statistically it is), CoA numbers don't factor in 1L, 2L, or 3L summer living costs.

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unclepete
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby unclepete » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:23 pm

OP- absolutely, positively UCLA

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Dr. Dre
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:51 pm

unclepete wrote:OP- absolutely, positively UCLA




don't go to UCLA, you'll be stuck in california as UCLA is a regional school

You do NOT want to be in california. There are no jobs, COL is too damn high, and even food at the local Trader Joe's is way too expensive.

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unclepete
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby unclepete » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:53 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
unclepete wrote:OP- absolutely, positively UCLA




don't go to UCLA, you'll be stuck in california as UCLA is a regional school

You do NOT want to be in california. There are no jobs, COL is too damn high, and even food at the local Trader Joe's is way too expensive.


Thread title.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:12 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
unclepete wrote:OP- absolutely, positively UCLA




don't go to UCLA, you'll be stuck in california as UCLA is a regional school

You do NOT want to be in california. There are no jobs, COL is too damn high, and even food at the local Trader Joe's is way too expensive.


Idk man. Trader Joe's is pretty cheap. I survived UG eating pasta, sausage, and marinara sauce all from Trader Joe's. It comes to about $3.50 a meal. From CA, went to UG in CA.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:12 pm

OP: UCLA.

Real Madrid
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby Real Madrid » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:25 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
unclepete wrote:OP- absolutely, positively UCLA




don't go to UCLA, you'll be stuck in california as UCLA is a regional school

You do NOT want to be in california. There are no jobs, COL is too damn high, and even food at the local Trader Joe's is way too expensive.


Good God you're obnoxious. OP is from California, so don't condescend to her and tell her what it's like. Learn to read the OP and give actual solid advice for once in your life.

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unclepete
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby unclepete » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:32 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:
unclepete wrote:OP- absolutely, positively UCLA




don't go to UCLA, you'll be stuck in california as UCLA is a regional school

You do NOT want to be in california. There are no jobs, COL is too damn high, and even food at the local Trader Joe's is way too expensive.


Good God you're obnoxious. OP is from California, so don't condescend to her and tell her what it's like. Learn to read the OP and give actual solid advice for once in your life.


Not to mention the real Dre would NOT be happy
about all the California hatorade

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twinkletoes16
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby twinkletoes16 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:21 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:
unclepete wrote:OP- absolutely, positively UCLA




don't go to UCLA, you'll be stuck in california as UCLA is a regional school

You do NOT want to be in california. There are no jobs, COL is too damn high, and even food at the local Trader Joe's is way too expensive.


Good God you're obnoxious. OP is from California, so don't condescend to her and tell her what it's like. Learn to read the OP and give actual solid advice for once in your life.



Yeah...what. I lived and managed to scrape by in two of the highest COL areas in CA. I'm from there. I'm not leaving. Your shtick is old and stupid.

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untar614
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby untar614 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:06 pm

untar614 wrote:How does UCLA, come out to almost 40k less than NW? the scholarship difference is only 15k, and LA has a way higher CoL.


I'm still wondering what I'm missing here.

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Lavitz
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby Lavitz » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:08 pm

untar614 wrote:
untar614 wrote:How does UCLA, come out to almost 40k less than NW? the scholarship difference is only 15k, and LA has a way higher CoL.


I'm still wondering what I'm missing here.

Resident tuition at UCLA is like 10K a year less. Guessing that's a large part of the reason.

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untar614
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby untar614 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:16 pm

Lavitz wrote:
untar614 wrote:
untar614 wrote:How does UCLA, come out to almost 40k less than NW? the scholarship difference is only 15k, and LA has a way higher CoL.


I'm still wondering what I'm missing here.

Resident tuition at UCLA is like 10K a year less. Guessing that's a large part of the reason.

UCLA IS tuition is ~6k/year less, and OOS tuition is ~1k more, and OP said she'd pay OOS first year (is it really that easy to get IS tuition in Cali?). That would come out to about 11k, but there's still the appreciably higher rent cost in LA pushing the balance in the other direction. I'm curious as to the actual numbers here.

cinnamonchurros
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Re: California or Bust and Slightly Less Debt-Averse...

Postby cinnamonchurros » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:18 pm

I vote UCLA because you really want to stay near family. I would suggest Northwestern as a second choice because it is a great school that you could attend for a decent price.




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