Sticker

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WhatOurBodiesAreFor
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Sticker

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:39 pm

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Last edited by WhatOurBodiesAreFor on Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.

dkb17xzx
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby dkb17xzx » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:42 pm

voted Fordham b/c the numbers for the rest of the schools worth attending make my eyes bleed

WhatOurBodiesAreFor
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:47 pm

dkb17xzx wrote:voted Fordham b/c the numbers for the rest of the schools worth attending make my eyes bleed


lol. fair enough

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Robespierre
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby Robespierre » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:50 pm

Why is the Fordham COA so low? Did they really give you 60K per year? Or maybe 30K per year plus someone will be providing you room and board in NYC? Curious.

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hephaestus
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby hephaestus » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:55 pm

Robespierre wrote:Why is the Fordham COA so low? Did they really give you 60K per year? Or maybe 30K per year plus someone will be providing you room and board in NYC? Curious.

Guessing the latter since their tuition is under 50k a year.

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justonemoregame
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby justonemoregame » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:01 pm

who the hell is choosing things other than fordham

WhatOurBodiesAreFor
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:05 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
Robespierre wrote:Why is the Fordham COA so low? Did they really give you 60K per year? Or maybe 30K per year plus someone will be providing you room and board in NYC? Curious.

Guessing the latter since their tuition is under 50k a year.
Last edited by WhatOurBodiesAreFor on Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sinfiery
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby sinfiery » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:07 pm

At the very least Duke over Mich


Same COA
ties to the south open up NYC and mid/biglaw in those areas plus clerkship regional favor for you (I know nothing about this but that seems reasonable)

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hephaestus
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby hephaestus » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:09 pm

I think Fordham is the only financially reasonable choice.

rad lulz
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:09 pm

dkb17xzx wrote:voted Fordham b/c the numbers for the rest of the schools worth attending make my eyes bleed

BigZuck
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby BigZuck » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:14 pm

Of all those schools I think Duke is probably the best bang for your buck as far as T14s at sticker go. But I wouldn't do it.

I would probably do WUSTL if I were you. Ties to the Midwest and good school at a reasonable price.

Master Tofu
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby Master Tofu » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:17 pm

This is a nice thread with plenty of fiscally sound advise. Fordham or WUSTL depending on location preference.

WhatOurBodiesAreFor
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:18 pm

sinfiery wrote:At the very least Duke over Mich


Same COA
ties to the south open up NYC and mid/biglaw in those areas plus clerkship regional favor for you (I know nothing about this but that seems reasonable)
Last edited by WhatOurBodiesAreFor on Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

drive4showLSAT4dough
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby drive4showLSAT4dough » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:19 pm

Not voting because I think you need to spend the next 2 months desparately trying to get scholly money from all of the above and then re-evaluate.

Pass on T-14 for ~300K debt everyday of the week and twice on sundays.

NYstate
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby NYstate » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:23 pm

We can't tell you what to do. If you don't know where you want to practice or what you want to practice, then the only thing left is cost. But you are perfectly willing to take on massive debt.

I think in the past you have advised others that taking on massive debt is fine in some instances, so go for it. Roll those dice and go to Michigan. (Sorry if I have you mixed up with someone else.)

You really haven't given us a single factor to help you make this decision. If it were me or if I were advising a friend, I guess I would say Fordham because of the low cost and because I am familiar with the city. But you don't mention if you like NYC and would want to stay here after graduating. This makes it difficult because I can't say that Fordham will help you get a job outside of the city.

Honestly, I think you need to think for yourself if you can narrow your goals and focus. If not, and you don't care about owing debt, whether you get biglaw or not, then go wherever you like the best, which seems to be Michigan.

NYstate
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby NYstate » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:24 pm

drive4showLSAT4dough wrote:Not voting because I think you need to spend the next 2 months desparately trying to get scholly money from all of the above and then re-evaluate.

Pass on T-14 for ~300K debt everyday of the week and twice on sundays.


But this OP doesn't mind the debt so is that a consideration here?

Master Tofu
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby Master Tofu » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:31 pm

-Career goals: pretty wide open. Would be more than happy I think with a federal clerkship/biglaw. Would also be fine with PI. I have a very strong international background. I am most qualified for and would prefer an int'lly-focused position, but I am not banking on getting one.


OP, you can't say you haven't decided on your career choice when you take on 250k worth of debt. There is only one job that allows you to repay that debt (or PI if you want to do that for 10 years).

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Robespierre
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby Robespierre » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:37 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:
Robespierre wrote:Why is the Fordham COA so low? Did they really give you 60K per year? Or maybe 30K per year plus someone will be providing you room and board in NYC? Curious.

Guessing the latter since their tuition is under 50k a year.


The latter, Robespierre; cost of living is factored into all calculations. Fordham has offered me a named scholarship. PM if you want more details.


OK thanks. Fordham most definitely. Most of the others involve massive debt. You say you don't mind the debt for Michigan et al, but I think you'll change your mind if you have 200K or more hanging over you and you don't snag a Biglaw job (which is certainly possible). That's a nightmare scenario and I don't think you should flirt with it.

Fordham with only 50K debt is a good outcome for someone who wants out of the midwest and would be "more than happy" with biglaw.

You have a couple of others on the list that involve less than 200K debt, but they're more expensive than Fordham without dramatically better job placement.

rad lulz
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:47 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
sinfiery wrote:At the very least Duke over Mich


Same COA
ties to the south open up NYC and mid/biglaw in those areas plus clerkship regional favor for you (I know nothing about this but that seems reasonable)


Incredibly good point. Would you (or someone) mind elaborating? Like how much better of a chance do I have at Nashville/ATL biglaw if I go to Duke vs. Michigan? Fed clerkships? I have thought about the Southern ties thing a lot but I have for some reason never factored it into my decision much. Is Duke sticker over Michigan sticker TCR in my situation?

(Though it's clearly a good idea to have this discussion, please do note that I have been waitlisted at Duke)

Do you have prior ties to Middle TN? If not, your chance at Nashville biglaw is effectively 0 whether you do Duke or Mich. ATL wants high grades, even from T14. Even the midsize firms like Parker Hudson or AGG aren't falling all over themselves to hire median Dukebros

BigZuck
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby BigZuck » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:50 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:
Robespierre wrote:Why is the Fordham COA so low? Did they really give you 60K per year? Or maybe 30K per year plus someone will be providing you room and board in NYC? Curious.

Guessing the latter since their tuition is under 50k a year.


The latter, Robespierre; cost of living is factored into all calculations. Fordham has offered me a named scholarship. PM if you want more details.


Just saw this. I would take the named scholarship and the preferential treatment that comes with it and run to Fordham. No question in my mind.

NYstate
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby NYstate » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:51 pm

oh right, this is what I was thinking of, the discussion that you made about duke at sticker being a rational choice. I feel that if you believe that, then you should go for it. Only you can assess your ability to deal with debt you might not be able to repay vs. the upside of whatever you see the upside being. I don't want to substitute my values for yours, it is your life after all. Again, I am not recommending this choice, but you seem to be fine with it. Michigan is the best school you got into, so just go.

I get this, and you're pretty correct here. All I am trying to say here is that TLS, instead of banging it out with a good discourse, usually (usually) resorts to something like: "Everybody tells me the legal market is awful, but I don't believe them because" when there really needs some quality discussion. In any world, Duke sticker is more rational than John Marshall. In fact, in any world, Duke sticker is at least close to a rational choice. Why must you chastise those who disagree with you? Some people do have "special snowflake syndrome", some people are incapable of taking advice, some people are underinformed, true. But it's not like everyone who disagrees with you is performing some ridiculous fallacy.



viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206180&start=100#p6566799
( I think there are more arguments you made in favor of sticker debt- but I could be wrong.)

I also wonder if you now have a better understanding of how long it will take to repay those loans if you do manage to get biglaw from Michigan? What is your repayment plan? What if you don't get biglaw - a substantial risk from that school?
Last edited by NYstate on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

drive4showLSAT4dough
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby drive4showLSAT4dough » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:54 pm

Wait are you including Duke, NU, and Boalt in the conversation even though you have not been admitted to those schools?

berkeleykel06
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby berkeleykel06 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:58 pm

I would say either Michigan or Fordham. I think the benefits of Duke (assuming you even get in) over Michigan are marginal and your heart seems to be with Michigan. You also seem to be the right candidate for sticker at a T14--not debt adverse, want the best option possible, don't want to wonder what if, have taken the LSAT multiple times (I assume?). But have you thought through what happens if you miss biglaw/clerkship and graduate jobless? Are you ready for the type of hopelessness one feels in that kind of situation with that kind of debt? You really need to think hard about that scenario.

Normally I'd never consider a school like Fordham given your options, but since you have a named scholarship I assume the school would do everything in its power to make sure you end up with a job, and you seem to be open to NYC biglaw. Can the school put you in touch with recent recipients of the scholarship so you can gauge how they have fared? Assuming you'd get the type of preferential treatment that typically comes with a named scholarship, I'd go with Fordham over Michigan.

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sinfiery
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby sinfiery » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:59 pm

Sorry, I know nothing about actual employment variances as a 0L.

Also 50k at Fordham is a good outcome whereas sticker at Duke or Mich or even NU or Berk are things you need to consider very closely before making such a large investment.

I empathize with that going for the higher upside mantra you employed, but this is a lot of debt. Really do consider it.

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: T9-14 ~sticker / T18 ($$) / T1 ($$$$)

Postby WokeUpInACar » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:08 pm

If your LSN is accurate I'm not sure how you're coming up with ~100k in debt coming from WUSTL




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