Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

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UselessKnowledge
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Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby UselessKnowledge » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:43 am

I need some advice from fellow TLSers.

Money is not a factor in my decision, but I have the following scholarships:
- Fordham: 30k and very cheap living arrangement
- GW: haven't heard yet
- BU/BC: haven't heard yet
- Minnessota: 84k
- WUSTL: 75k

I am on reserve at Cornell and would attend there if accepted!

I want to know, regardless of COA, what I should go with based on my situation. I have heavy ties to NYC. Went to UG and worked there for a few years. I would prefer to work on the East Coast, and NYC might really be my first choice. I have never been to DC, and I'll be visiting before deposits are due. I won't have time to visit all of these schools before the 15th, and haven't been able to narrow it down. I am also interested in government work, assuming it's possible for me to get this kind of work out of any of these schools. Biglaw is of interest too. The way I see it, GW affords me a better chance at government work, and Fordham a better chance at working in NYC, which while I am interested in, I'm not totally sold on if one of these schools will provide me a better chance of a good job.

Basically, what should I do? I'm definitely visiting F and GW. Need to decide where else is worth visiting, and need advice as to which school will afford me a better future. It doesn't really matter why money is not an object. I want to know which school is the smartest move ignoring cost.

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romothesavior
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:28 pm

Why is money not a factor

NYstate
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby NYstate » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:59 pm

Don't go to GW - they are the classic trap school. Stay in NYC if that is where you want to practice and live.

Also: calculate the amounts each will cost with the Georgetown calculator. Money may not matter but it is still good to know how much things cost.
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621

Big Dog
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby Big Dog » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:07 pm

Big Law + NYC = Fordham.

Government may be a slight possibility from GW, but only slight. Those jobs are competitive as heck, and you would be competing with Georgetown, and the other T14 grads, such as UVa and Duke, who also want government work. (And you can guess which resume gets picked up first, Harvard or GW...)

Master Tofu
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby Master Tofu » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:19 pm

UselessKnowledge wrote:I need some advice from fellow TLSers.

Money is not a factor in my decision, but I have the following scholarships:
- Fordham: 30k and very cheap living arrangement
- GW: haven't heard yet
- BU/BC: haven't heard yet
- Minnessota: 84k
- WUSTL: 75k

I am on reserve at Cornell and would attend there if accepted!

I want to know, regardless of COA, what I should go with based on my situation. I have heavy ties to NYC. Went to UG and worked there for a few years. I would prefer to work on the East Coast, and NYC might really be my first choice. I have never been to DC, and I'll be visiting before deposits are due. I won't have time to visit all of these schools before the 15th, and haven't been able to narrow it down. I am also interested in government work, assuming it's possible for me to get this kind of work out of any of these schools. Biglaw is of interest too. The way I see it, GW affords me a better chance at government work, and Fordham a better chance at working in NYC, which while I am interested in, I'm not totally sold on if one of these schools will provide me a better chance of a good job.

Basically, what should I do? I'm definitely visiting F and GW. Need to decide where else is worth visiting, and need advice as to which school will afford me a better future. It doesn't really matter why money is not an object. I want to know which school is the smartest move ignoring cost.


What kind of government work? DOJ Honors or something like lobbying?

UselessKnowledge
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby UselessKnowledge » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:32 pm

Ok, so Fordham is the clear winner here. Do I actually have a decent chance at landing a good job from there? I need extreme honesty. Are UMN and WUSTL even worth checking out or am I most likely stuck in the Midwest forever going there? And how are BU/BC compared to Fordham?

I have money saved from when I was working. I want to go to the school that will afford me the best opportunity. My COL in NYC will actually be the cheapest. I'll be living with a friend in a rent controlled apartment.

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romothesavior
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:11 pm

UselessKnowledge wrote:Ok, so Fordham is the clear winner here. Do I actually have a decent chance at landing a good job from there? I need extreme honesty. Are UMN and WUSTL even worth checking out or am I most likely stuck in the Midwest forever going there? And how are BU/BC compared to Fordham?

I have money saved from when I was working. I want to go to the school that will afford me the best opportunity. My COL in NYC will actually be the cheapest. I'll be living with a friend in a rent controlled apartment.

Unless you made millions before law school, like to the point where a few hundred grand is meangingless to you, I'd still be wary of Fordham near sticker. That's a ton of dough and the odds of a biglaw gig are still well under 50%. Though geographically I do think it is the school that matches up best with your goals.

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TripTrip
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby TripTrip » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:13 pm

romothesavior wrote:
UselessKnowledge wrote:Ok, so Fordham is the clear winner here. Do I actually have a decent chance at landing a good job from there? I need extreme honesty. Are UMN and WUSTL even worth checking out or am I most likely stuck in the Midwest forever going there? And how are BU/BC compared to Fordham?

I have money saved from when I was working. I want to go to the school that will afford me the best opportunity. My COL in NYC will actually be the cheapest. I'll be living with a friend in a rent controlled apartment.

Unless you made millions before law school, like to the point where a few hundred grand is meangingless to you, I'd still be wary of Fordham near sticker. That's a ton of dough and the odds of a biglaw gig are still well under 50%. Though geographically I do think it is the school that matches up best with your goals.

TITCR

UselessKnowledge
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby UselessKnowledge » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:27 pm

romothesavior wrote:
UselessKnowledge wrote:Ok, so Fordham is the clear winner here. Do I actually have a decent chance at landing a good job from there? I need extreme honesty. Are UMN and WUSTL even worth checking out or am I most likely stuck in the Midwest forever going there? And how are BU/BC compared to Fordham?

I have money saved from when I was working. I want to go to the school that will afford me the best opportunity. My COL in NYC will actually be the cheapest. I'll be living with a friend in a rent controlled apartment.

Unless you made millions before law school, like to the point where a few hundred grand is meangingless to you, I'd still be wary of Fordham near sticker. That's a ton of dough and the odds of a biglaw gig are still well under 50%. Though geographically I do think it is the school that matches up best with your goals.


It's not that a hundred grand is meaningless to me, but I have more than enough to get out of school debt-free. Some is through work, some through luck, but I can afford it. I'm extremely thankful for that, but I don't want it to be a waste of hard-earned money. I really want the best shot at a decent career as a lawyer given I haven't gotten into a T14. Realistically, oes Fordham give me that chance? If I get Cornell, I'll be running there. If not Fordham, what would be the best option? WUSTL or Minnessota? Do I have a better shot at a job from either of these, or is it all the same?

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hephaestus
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby hephaestus » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:32 pm

If money is truly not an object, do everything you can to get Cornell this cycle. If you can't, retake.

UselessKnowledge
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby UselessKnowledge » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:48 pm

ImNoScar wrote:If money is truly not an object, do everything you can to get Cornell this cycle. If you can't, retake.


I send a LOCI, an additional recommendation, and reiterated that Cornell is my top choice and that I'd withdraw everywhere else immediately if I were to be accepted. I'm sending another LOCI later in the cycle. They always email me back and are really polite and awesome. I really hope I get in. I would be beyond excited. As for your last comment, I have taken the LSAT 3 times already and can't sit out and retake unless I want to wait years. At this point, it isn't really a great choice for me and I'd like to get started on my career soon. It has already been over 3 years since I graduated UG and I don't have any good job prospects with my current degrees. If I don't get Cornell ( :( ), what do you know about Fordham in terms of how successful I can be coming out of there?

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Presidentjlh
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby Presidentjlh » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:50 pm

If you don't mind me asking, what are your scores? PM me if you don't wish to share them publicly.

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TripTrip
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby TripTrip » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:54 pm

UselessKnowledge wrote: what do you know about Fordham in terms of how successful I can be coming out of there?

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=fordham

TheNextAmendment
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby TheNextAmendment » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:01 pm

NYstate wrote:Don't go to GW - they are the classic trap school. Stay in NYC if that is where you want to practice and live.

Also: calculate the amounts each will cost with the Georgetown calculator. Money may not matter but it is still good to know how much things cost.
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621


I think its hilarious how kids mention how much of a "trap" school GW is simply because they've read an article on above-the-law and think they can speak intelligently about the school. It ranks T20 in every kind of placement. 20% school-funded jobs is absurd, but don't claim its worse than BC or BU or WUSTL- that's ridiculous.

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Presidentjlh
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby Presidentjlh » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:03 pm

TheNextAmendment wrote:
NYstate wrote:Don't go to GW - they are the classic trap school. Stay in NYC if that is where you want to practice and live.

Also: calculate the amounts each will cost with the Georgetown calculator. Money may not matter but it is still good to know how much things cost.
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621


I think its hilarious how kids mention how much of a "trap" school GW is simply because they've read an article on above-the-law and think they can speak intelligently about the school. It ranks T20 in every kind of placement. 20% school-funded jobs is absurd, but don't claim its worse than BC or BU or WUSTL- that's ridiculous.


It's certainly not a bad school, but I would never consider paying sticker there, especially considering the CoL.

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Homelandsagreatshow
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby Homelandsagreatshow » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:04 pm

I'd argue that for non IP people it absolutely IS worse than BC/BU...a huge percentage, if what I have heard is correct, of their BigLaw stats comes from IP, dropping down the % for the rest of the people to less than BU/BC...IP you're in a good spot...everything else, you're in a worse position in an insanely expensive and competitive market

TheNextAmendment
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby TheNextAmendment » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:05 pm

Presidentjlh wrote:
TheNextAmendment wrote:
NYstate wrote:Don't go to GW - they are the classic trap school. Stay in NYC if that is where you want to practice and live.

Also: calculate the amounts each will cost with the Georgetown calculator. Money may not matter but it is still good to know how much things cost.
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621


I think its hilarious how kids mention how much of a "trap" school GW is simply because they've read an article on above-the-law and think they can speak intelligently about the school. It ranks T20 in every kind of placement. 20% school-funded jobs is absurd, but don't claim its worse than BC or BU or WUSTL- that's ridiculous.


It's certainly not a bad school, but I would never consider paying sticker there, especially considering the CoL.


Agreed. Im just tired of people saying its a bad school because they know 1 fact about it.

NYstate
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby NYstate » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:07 pm

TheNextAmendment wrote:
NYstate wrote:Don't go to GW - they are the classic trap school. Stay in NYC if that is where you want to practice and live.

Also: calculate the amounts each will cost with the Georgetown calculator. Money may not matter but it is still good to know how much things cost.
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621


I think its hilarious how kids mention how much of a "trap" school GW is simply because they've read an article on above-the-law and think they can speak intelligently about the school. It ranks T20 in every kind of placement. 20% school-funded jobs is absurd, but don't claim its worse than BC or BU or WUSTL- that's ridiculous.


Actually the article was by Prof Campos on ISTLSS. I mentioned GW as the classic trap school because GW was the example in that blog post. As the original example, I consider them the "classic" example.

Campos includes Fordham as a trap school as well. I suggested Fordham because OP can go basically for free ,which takes it out of consideration as a trap for OP. (Campos also mentions USC but that wasn't an option for OP)

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... hools.html

TheNextAmendment
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby TheNextAmendment » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:13 pm

NYstate wrote:
TheNextAmendment wrote:
NYstate wrote:Don't go to GW - they are the classic trap school. Stay in NYC if that is where you want to practice and live.

Also: calculate the amounts each will cost with the Georgetown calculator. Money may not matter but it is still good to know how much things cost.
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621


I think its hilarious how kids mention how much of a "trap" school GW is simply because they've read an article on above-the-law and think they can speak intelligently about the school. It ranks T20 in every kind of placement. 20% school-funded jobs is absurd, but don't claim its worse than BC or BU or WUSTL- that's ridiculous.


Actually the article was by Prof Campos on ISTLSS. I mentioned GW as the classic trap school because GW was the example in that blog post. As the original example, I consider them the "classic" example.

Campos includes Fordham as a trap school as well. I suggested Fordham because OP can go basically for free ,which takes it out of consideration as a trap for OP. (Campos also mentions USC but that wasn't an option for OP)

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... hools.html


Right but his article is all relative. "USC, Fordham, GW are trap schools" but compared to what. T14. If it was a simple absolute analysis then he would be talking about Cooley and TJLS. Either way- interesting read. Thanks for the link.

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Homelandsagreatshow
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby Homelandsagreatshow » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:16 pm

TheNextAmendment wrote:
NYstate wrote:
TheNextAmendment wrote:
NYstate wrote:Don't go to GW - they are the classic trap school. Stay in NYC if that is where you want to practice and live.

Also: calculate the amounts each will cost with the Georgetown calculator. Money may not matter but it is still good to know how much things cost.
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621


I think its hilarious how kids mention how much of a "trap" school GW is simply because they've read an article on above-the-law and think they can speak intelligently about the school. It ranks T20 in every kind of placement. 20% school-funded jobs is absurd, but don't claim its worse than BC or BU or WUSTL- that's ridiculous.


Actually the article was by Prof Campos on ISTLSS. I mentioned GW as the classic trap school because GW was the example in that blog post. As the original example, I consider them the "classic" example.

Campos includes Fordham as a trap school as well. I suggested Fordham because OP can go basically for free ,which takes it out of consideration as a trap for OP. (Campos also mentions USC but that wasn't an option for OP)

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... hools.html


Right but his article is all relative. "USC, Fordham, GW are trap schools" but compared to what. T14. If it was a simple absolute analysis then he would be talking about Cooley and TJLS. Either way- interesting read. Thanks for the link.



No. You're wrong..Those aren't trap schools. The "Trap" in those schools is for the people for which the Darwin Awards was created. GW-Fordham-NotsureIagreebutUSC are trap schools because their numbers are on the cusp of awesomeness but are still insanely risky. The above traps are way way "trappier" hahaha

NYstate
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby NYstate » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:16 pm

TheNextAmendment wrote:
Presidentjlh wrote:
TheNextAmendment wrote:
NYstate wrote:Don't go to GW - they are the classic trap school. Stay in NYC if that is where you want to practice and live.

Also: calculate the amounts each will cost with the Georgetown calculator. Money may not matter but it is still good to know how much things cost.
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621


I think its hilarious how kids mention how much of a "trap" school GW is simply because they've read an article on above-the-law and think they can speak intelligently about the school. It ranks T20 in every kind of placement. 20% school-funded jobs is absurd, but don't claim its worse than BC or BU or WUSTL- that's ridiculous.


It's certainly not a bad school, but I would never consider paying sticker there, especially considering the CoL.


Agreed. Im just tired of people saying its a bad school because they know 1 fact about it.


Which 1 fact is that? Not sure what you mean. I'm not talking about the school funded job fiasco although indirectly it touches on that because of #3 below.

The definition of a trap school that I was using is the Campos described:

(1) It's expensive to attend.

(2) It's located in what the sort of people who go to law school tend to consider a desirable place to live (obviously these first two factors are related).

(3) It has superficially attractive employment and salary statistics.


NYstate
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby NYstate » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:19 pm

Right but his article is all relative. "USC, Fordham, GW are trap schools" but compared to what. T14. If it was a simple absolute analysis then he would be talking about Cooley and TJLS. Either way- interesting read. Thanks for the link.



No. You're wrong..Those aren't trap schools. The "Trap" in those schools is for the people for which the Darwin Awards was created. GW-Fordham-NotsureIagreebutUSC are trap schools because their numbers are on the cusp of awesomeness but are still insanely risky. The above traps are way way "trappier" hahaha


Read the article. You wondered where I came up with that designation and I told you.

Note this:

A trap school, in other words, is the kind of place that attracts the kind of highly-qualified, reasonably prudent 0Ls who would never consider attending the vast majority of law schools at anything like sticker price, and yet still ends up generating a very high risk of financial and personal disaster for its students.

TheNextAmendment
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby TheNextAmendment » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:20 pm

@Homeland- ha- my point exactly
@NYState- that 1 fact post was made before your reply. I understand your point.

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Homelandsagreatshow
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby Homelandsagreatshow » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:24 pm

NYstate wrote:
Right but his article is all relative. "USC, Fordham, GW are trap schools" but compared to what. T14. If it was a simple absolute analysis then he would be talking about Cooley and TJLS. Either way- interesting read. Thanks for the link.



No. You're wrong..Those aren't trap schools. The "Trap" in those schools is for the people for which the Darwin Awards was created. GW-Fordham-NotsureIagreebutUSC are trap schools because their numbers are on the cusp of awesomeness but are still insanely risky. The above traps are way way "trappier" hahaha


Read the article. You wondered where I came up with that designation and I told you.

Note this:

A trap school, in other words, is the kind of place that attracts the kind of highly-qualified, reasonably prudent 0Ls who would never consider attending the vast majority of law schools at anything like sticker price, and yet still ends up generating a very high risk of financial and personal disaster for its students.



Yeah I agree, I'm saying Cooley and those schools aren't trap schools by any definition of "trap"

UselessKnowledge
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Re: Fordham vs. GW vs. BU/BC vs. UMN vs. WUSTL

Postby UselessKnowledge » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:34 pm

I understand what you guys are saying, but these are my only options. If I don't get into Cornell, T14 will not be an option for me. Am I just fucked if I attend any of these schools? Based on my actual situation, dealing with reality as it is, is Fordham a terrible idea? GW and the rest: worse, better, or the same?




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