BU vs. BC

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BCLS
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby BCLS » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:59 am

Blindmelon wrote:
CourCour wrote:BC's network and loyalty in the Boston market makes it the unquestionable better choice.


Says the 0L who is probably going to BC and/or got rejected by BU.

At least BC didn't have to hire back 20% of its class.

sflyr2016
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby sflyr2016 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:07 pm

Any students attend the BU/BC Miami off campus interviews? If so what was the turnout and which firms attended?

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Blindmelon
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:08 pm

BCLS wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
CourCour wrote:BC's network and loyalty in the Boston market makes it the unquestionable better choice.


Says the 0L who is probably going to BC and/or got rejected by BU.

At least BC didn't have to hire back 20% of its class.


At least BU doesn't push a religious philosophy down student's throats. http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/27/us/boston ... ms-dispute

But seriously, this doesn't need to be a pissing contest. Neither school is Harvard and pretending like its all roses at either is going to lead to a rude awakening on graduation. Now I don't mean that either school is bad, but splitting hairs between them is silly.

BCLS
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby BCLS » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:09 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
BCLS wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
CourCour wrote:BC's network and loyalty in the Boston market makes it the unquestionable better choice.


Says the 0L who is probably going to BC and/or got rejected by BU.

At least BC didn't have to hire back 20% of its class.


At least BU doesn't push a religious philosophy down student's throats. http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/27/us/boston ... ms-dispute

But seriously, this doesn't need to be a pissing contest. Neither school is Harvard and pretending like its all roses at either is going to lead to a rude awakening on graduation. Now I don't mean that either school is bad, but splitting hairs between them is silly.


I think employment statistics are a bit more relevant here.

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Blindmelon
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:55 pm

BCLS wrote:I think employment statistics are a bit more relevant here.


Like the stat that BU is in the top 20 bigfirm feeders and BC isn't? http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0314125047.

.... I don't even know why I'm participating in this.

BCLS
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby BCLS » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:01 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
BCLS wrote:I think employment statistics are a bit more relevant here.


Like the stat that BU is in the top 20 bigfirm feeders and BC isn't? http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0314125047.

.... I don't even know why I'm participating in this.


Like the stat that BC and BU have identical NLJ250 placement and BC didn't hire back 20% of its class? The 20% thing kind of puts BU's placement into perspective. That's scary.

And a nice bonus (although admittedly irrelevant) BU undergrad is the safety school for BC undergrad :P

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Blindmelon
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:18 pm

Sheer curiousity, where are you working next year BCLS?

AllTheLawz
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby AllTheLawz » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:18 pm

BCLS wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
BCLS wrote:I think employment statistics are a bit more relevant here.


Like the stat that BU is in the top 20 bigfirm feeders and BC isn't? http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0314125047.

.... I don't even know why I'm participating in this.


Like the stat that BC and BU have identical NLJ250 placement and BC didn't hire back 20% of its class? The 20% thing kind of puts BU's placement into perspective. That's scary.

And a nice bonus (although admittedly irrelevant) BU undergrad is the safety school for BC undergrad :P


Not that have a dog in this fight... but exactly where are people going with this "20% of class hired back thing."

From quick LST glance, I see a ~10% difference in school-funded rate.. then I look at the non-employed difference and see BU is 5.5% lower and ~5% lower in the "JD advantage" category. Seems like a pretty clear wash to me. Only diff is that BC isn't hiring the people with iffy outcomes like BU is.

BCLS
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby BCLS » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:20 pm

Blindmelon wrote:Sheer curiousity, where are you working next year BCLS?


Big firm in Boston. Won't divulge name though. You?

BCLS
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby BCLS » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:22 pm

AllTheLawz wrote:
BCLS wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
BCLS wrote:I think employment statistics are a bit more relevant here.


Like the stat that BU is in the top 20 bigfirm feeders and BC isn't? http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0314125047.

.... I don't even know why I'm participating in this.


Like the stat that BC and BU have identical NLJ250 placement and BC didn't hire back 20% of its class? The 20% thing kind of puts BU's placement into perspective. That's scary.

And a nice bonus (although admittedly irrelevant) BU undergrad is the safety school for BC undergrad :P


Not that have a dog in this fight... but exactly where are people going with this "20% of class hired back thing."

From quick LST glance, I see a ~10% difference in school-funded rate.. then I look at the non-employed difference and see BU is 5.5% lower and ~5% lower in the "JD advantage" category. Seems like a pretty clear wash to me. Only diff is that BC isn't hiring the people with iffy outcomes like BU is.


You're right. That was last years data. BU hired back 14% of its class with the most recent data and BC hired back 4.6%. Still pretty significant though.

BU also has a 3% unknown score, while BC is .08%.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby somewhatwayward » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:27 pm

BCLS wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
BCLS wrote:I think employment statistics are a bit more relevant here.


Like the stat that BU is in the top 20 bigfirm feeders and BC isn't? http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0314125047.

.... I don't even know why I'm participating in this.


Like the stat that BC and BU have identical NLJ250 placement and BC didn't hire back 20% of its class? The 20% thing kind of puts BU's placement into perspective. That's scary.

And a nice bonus (although admittedly irrelevant) BU undergrad is the safety school for BC undergrad :P


According to LST, none of BU's school-funded jobs counted toward the 64% employed in long-term full-time jobs because their school-funded positions are not LT/FT. Basically BU and BC's 64% FT/LT employed and 65% FT/LT employed are as close as you can get. BU actually edged BC out in big firm and clerkship placement (clerkship placement at BU is actually double BC but both figures are very low), but calling them even is probably more accurate to account for year-to-year fluctuation.

All Blindmelon is saying is that their placement power is equivalent, and it is pretty clear that it is about as equivalent as you can get. You are insisting on whiteknighting BC. I have no idea whether BC has a better alumni network, but even if it does, it doesn't seem to resulting in better placement. Thus, one should choose primarily based on cost.

ItsMyTimeBoston
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby ItsMyTimeBoston » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:30 pm

BCLS wrote:You're right. That was last years data. BU hired back 14% of its class with the most recent data and BC hired back 4.6%. Still pretty significant though.

BU also has a 3% unknown score, while BC is .08%.


And as I said before, this might be an indication of BC's elite alumni networking coming into play. If you want to stay in New England, BC > BU all day. Otherwise you run the risk of checking ID at the law school library.

BCLS
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby BCLS » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:31 pm

Well at the end of the day you have 14% of students at BU in short term, school funded jobs that definitely don't want to be there, and you have 4.6% at BC in the same situation.

empyreanrrv
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby empyreanrrv » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:33 pm

Who cares how much of the class gets hired back? If it is $10/hour doing administrative work it is a shitty outcome, but if it is a $10/hour stipend that allows me to work for free at a law office in Boston to pad my resume and help me get hired in the future, why the hell would I work at McDonald's instead? School-funded jobs are only detrimental when they contribute to FTLT jobs and make a bad school seem better than it is. BC/BU underemployment are basically the same thing, so if you aren't working in a FTLT legal job, wouldn't you rather have the school pay for you to get some experience, rather than kick you to the curb? I don't understand why I keep seeing the argument that school-funded jobs are bad or that it is somehow a metric for the quality of a school when the only important numbers are bigfirm and FTLT placement.

BCLS
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby BCLS » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:34 pm

empyreanrrv wrote:Who cares how much of the class gets hired back? If it is $10/hour doing administrative work it is a shitty outcome, but if it is a $10/hour stipend that allows me to work for free at a law office in Boston to pad my resume and help me get hired in the future, why the hell would I work at McDonald's instead? School-funded jobs are only detrimental when they contribute to FTLT jobs and make a bad school seem better than it is. BC/BU underemployment are basically the same thing, so if you aren't working in a FTLT legal job, wouldn't you rather have the school pay for you to get some experience, rather than kick you to the curb? I don't understand why I keep seeing the argument that school-funded jobs are bad or that it is somehow a metric for the quality of a school when the only important numbers are bigfirm and FTLT placement.

0L?

School-funded is a last resort. You don't go to law school to come out with a school-funded position. You'll understand this when you get to law school with the big boys.

empyreanrrv
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby empyreanrrv » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:35 pm

What are we talking about? No one goes to law school to get a school-funded job, but no one goes to be underemployed either. If you are underemployed in either case, it makes much more sense to have the school be paying you to do legal work than to have to work at some bullshit other job.

BCLS
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby BCLS » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:37 pm

empyreanrrv wrote:What are we talking about? No one goes to law school to get a school-funded job, but no one goes to be underemployed either. If you are underemployed in either case, it makes much more sense to have the school be paying you to do legal work than to have to work at some bullshit other job.

You're missing the point; the BC kiddies aren't having to resort to school-funded positions because we are getting HIRED. The school-funded mechanism, while obviously a good safety net, is not something you want to end up with. The fact that BC/BU have IDENTICAL employment statistics, and the fact that BC doesn't have to shove students into short term/ school funded jobs, definitely weighs in BC's favor.

AllTheLawz
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby AllTheLawz » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:39 pm

BCLS wrote:
empyreanrrv wrote:What are we talking about? No one goes to law school to get a school-funded job, but no one goes to be underemployed either. If you are underemployed in either case, it makes much more sense to have the school be paying you to do legal work than to have to work at some bullshit other job.

You're missing the point; the BC kiddies aren't having to resort to school-funded positions because we are getting HIRED. The school-funded mechanism, while obviously a good safety net, is not something you want to end up with. The fact that BC/BU have IDENTICAL employment statistics, and the fact that BC doesn't have to shove students into short term/ school funded jobs, definitely weighs in BC's favor.


Not really.. as was pointed out earlier, that 10% gap is made up of 5.5% extra unemployment and 5% extra JD Advantaged.

BostonLove
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby BostonLove » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:53 pm

BCLS wrote:
empyreanrrv wrote:What are we talking about? No one goes to law school to get a school-funded job, but no one goes to be underemployed either. If you are underemployed in either case, it makes much more sense to have the school be paying you to do legal work than to have to work at some bullshit other job.

You're missing the point; the BC kiddies aren't having to resort to school-funded positions because we are getting HIRED. The school-funded mechanism, while obviously a good safety net, is not something you want to end up with. The fact that BC/BU have IDENTICAL employment statistics, and the fact that BC doesn't have to shove students into short term/ school funded jobs, definitely weighs in BC's favor.


Not to jump into this (see below and because I probably won't look here again for a while), but at least some of the people counted for BU's hiring back its own students are in school funded positions working for government or non-profits that otherwise could not afford to hire them. Thus, the school is helping them get real experience that they otherwise would be unable to get. I also know that at least some in those positions (who I've actually spoken with, not just some amorphous group) are able to secure full time positions with the government or non-profit following the year funded by the school (or through contacts made in that position). While it still isn't ideal, it is a great chance for people wanting to work in areas that don't have funding for recent graduates or who haven't been able to find another job that they want, especially if the alternative is doing nothing or a non-legal job.

When I found out about this, it made me feel better about that stat, so I figured I would share in case anyone wasn't aware.

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Blindmelon
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:22 pm

BostonLove wrote:
BCLS wrote:
empyreanrrv wrote:What are we talking about? No one goes to law school to get a school-funded job, but no one goes to be underemployed either. If you are underemployed in either case, it makes much more sense to have the school be paying you to do legal work than to have to work at some bullshit other job.

You're missing the point; the BC kiddies aren't having to resort to school-funded positions because we are getting HIRED. The school-funded mechanism, while obviously a good safety net, is not something you want to end up with. The fact that BC/BU have IDENTICAL employment statistics, and the fact that BC doesn't have to shove students into short term/ school funded jobs, definitely weighs in BC's favor.


Not to jump into this (see below and because I probably won't look here again for a while), but at least some of the people counted for BU's hiring back its own students are in school funded positions working for government or non-profits that otherwise could not afford to hire them. Thus, the school is helping them get real experience that they otherwise would be unable to get. I also know that at least some in those positions (who I've actually spoken with, not just some amorphous group) are able to secure full time positions with the government or non-profit following the year funded by the school (or through contacts made in that position). While it still isn't ideal, it is a great chance for people wanting to work in areas that don't have funding for recent graduates or who haven't been able to find another job that they want, especially if the alternative is doing nothing or a non-legal job.

When I found out about this, it made me feel better about that stat, so I figured I would share in case anyone wasn't aware.


School funded is far from optimal, really far. But, most people I know who have did them turned into full time jobs - as ADAs, legal aid, PD, etc.

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cinephile
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby cinephile » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:07 pm

^ As a counter perspective, most people I know who did the school-funded job thing, eventually gave up on having a career altogether and became stay at home moms. That wasn't what they intended to do, but if you can't get a full-time, permanent respectable job, then you might as well rely on your partner and stay home making babies.

floydthebarber518
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby floydthebarber518 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:22 pm

*sigh* this sounds like a bunch of high schoolers fighting about where they'll go to undergrad.

Accounting for the fact that the school-funded jobs are not included within either the 64.1% or the 65% and the negligible difference in BigLaw placement, the differences between the two schools is negligible. (Actually, if anything, school-funded job is better than no job). A better way would be looking at the percentage of the ~35% of graduates without FTLT jobs who have a job that could pay them SOMETHING and have a (albeit remote) chance at a more secure/debt-appropriate job in the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, the breakdown of non-FTLT jobs doesn't seem to be available.

I am afraid based on what we have in terms of statistics, there is no clear winner and all other things being equal, whichever school will be cheaper is clearly the right choice. The only other thing I can think of is the likelihood of a particular 0L finishing in the top 1/3 of either schools. Consequently, the only measurable statistic that could predict this even a little bit would be the LSAT score breakdown of this year's entering class.

(I will say, only because I like the urban setting better, I am more inclined to go to BU. But this will certainly not be my deciding factor)

Personally, if BU will match BC's offer, I'll resort to looking at which area has the better restaurant/bar scene.

elm84dr
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby elm84dr » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:48 pm

floydthebarber518 wrote:*sigh* this sounds like a bunch of high schoolers fighting about where they'll go to undergrad.

Accounting for the fact that the school-funded jobs are not included within either the 64.1% or the 65% and the negligible difference in BigLaw placement, the differences between the two schools is negligible. (Actually, if anything, school-funded job is better than no job). A better way would be looking at the percentage of the ~35% of graduates without FTLT jobs who have a job that could pay them SOMETHING and have a (albeit remote) chance at a more secure/debt-appropriate job in the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, the breakdown of non-FTLT jobs doesn't seem to be available.

I am afraid based on what we have in terms of statistics, there is no clear winner and all other things being equal, whichever school will be cheaper is clearly the right choice. The only other thing I can think of is the likelihood of a particular 0L finishing in the top 1/3 of either schools. Consequently, the only measurable statistic that could predict this even a little bit would be the LSAT score breakdown of this year's entering class.

(I will say, only because I like the urban setting better, I am more inclined to go to BU. But this will certainly not be my deciding factor)

Personally, if BU will match BC's offer, I'll resort to looking at which area has the better restaurant/bar scene.



If the money difference is less than $10K, make your decision based on: feel, professors, urban/suburban, students you met on visits, student life, intuition. That's all you have to make the decision out of because the job situation at each school are substantially similar.

BU hiring 20% of the class of 2011 basically assures they have no resume gaps and most turn into full time jobs for them. Personally, I would say the class of 2013 at BU has done much better than 2012 and 2014 has done much better (in terms of SA) than 2013.

CourCour
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby CourCour » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:19 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
CourCour wrote:BC's network and loyalty in the Boston market makes it the unquestionable better choice.


Says the 0L who is probably going to BC and/or got rejected by BU.


I got into both and am choosing between Georgetown and BC. I work in Boston and my job overlaps with the legal market. I know alumni from both. The BU alums I know spend most of their time self-consciously asserting BU's higher ranking (which in 2014 is a whopping t-29 to BC's 31.)

Aristone
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Re: BU vs. BC

Postby Aristone » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:36 pm

Geez people...stop the fighting. Both schools are on relatively equal footing...BU places better nationally because of a decent amount of self-selection. BC places better locally ALSO because of a decent amount of self-selection. BU usually gets a more geographically-diverse class (this year both schools have 33 states represented and BU has 14 countries while BC only has 3) and this can sometimes play into that self-selection as people tend to want to practice back home. Bottom line: you do well at either school and you'll be fine practicing where you want. If you fall below median...good luck.

They are basically the same school with decidedly different atmospheres and campuses. Visit both and see which feel is right for you. If you have more money at one over the other, take the cheaper choice.

Last, I am a pretty liberal person and never once felt that religion was forced down my throat while at BC. I did have one priest teach a class of mine...and he seemed always objective. But once again, VISIT both.

Best of luck and my thoughts are with all of you in Boston who were more directly impacted by today's awful events. Stay safe up there.




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