Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

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csungrl09
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby csungrl09 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:19 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
K Rock wrote:Why is retaking not an option?

This is the key. There are very few (if any) situations where potentially ruining your life is worth saving a year.


do you mean ruining your life over debt? reputation? stress?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:20 pm

The people saying that you won't get academia out of these schools are correct. Doesn't matter whether that academia is law schools or undergrad/grad (it's probably harder for the latter because schools expect a graduate degree in the subject you'd teach in, which won't be law). You might possibly get a non-tenure-track position teaching part-time in a paralegal studies program at a for-profit vocational school (not the goal most people have when they're trying for academia). But that's about it.

If you plan to get a PhD later, why do a JD at all?

csungrl09
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby csungrl09 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:21 pm

Tom Joad wrote:
csungrl09 wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:Well at least you have a positive, go getter attitude. That is a big plus in life.



I try. :D

I like your attitude. By the schools you are applying to, you might live near me. If you ever want to get drinks sometime and talk about law school stuff just pm me.


thanks! :lol:

have you decided where you will be going? (or where do you currently attend law school? or where did you formerly attend?)

csungrl09
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby csungrl09 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:26 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:The people saying that you won't get academia out of these schools are correct. Doesn't matter whether that academia is law schools or undergrad/grad (it's probably harder for the latter because schools expect a graduate degree in the subject you'd teach in, which won't be law). You might possibly get a non-tenure-track position teaching part-time in a paralegal studies program at a for-profit vocational school (not the goal most people have when they're trying for academia). But that's about it.

If you plan to get a PhD later, why do a JD at all?


I don't need to teach at HYS to be satisfied. I'll be fine at an undergrad institution like the CSU system. For their law/pre-law (and sometimes Poli Sci depending on the classes you are teaching) departments, you must have a JD. also, I can do research independently from any school so the JD would just help me do that research.

timbs4339
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:05 pm

csungrl09 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:The people saying that you won't get academia out of these schools are correct. Doesn't matter whether that academia is law schools or undergrad/grad (it's probably harder for the latter because schools expect a graduate degree in the subject you'd teach in, which won't be law). You might possibly get a non-tenure-track position teaching part-time in a paralegal studies program at a for-profit vocational school (not the goal most people have when they're trying for academia). But that's about it.

If you plan to get a PhD later, why do a JD at all?


I don't need to teach at HYS to be satisfied. I'll be fine at an undergrad institution like the CSU system. For their law/pre-law (and sometimes Poli Sci depending on the classes you are teaching) departments, you must have a JD. also, I can do research independently from any school so the JD would just help me do that research.


You still don't seem to get this. How much do you really know about this career path?

People are not saying you need to teach at HYS. You are not going to get any tenure-track teaching job, nor any job as an adjunct at a state U, with just a JD and no legal experience. Period. Full stop. The schools on your list allow you to take the bar exam and make 40-60K as a lawyer. They are not a backdoor into yet another over-saturated field. ESPECIALLY over the next few years, when dozens of wannabe lawprofs with HYS degrees, elite clerkships, and publications who cannot find jobs at law schools are going to be looking for jobs at UGs.

If you want to be a pre-law professor or a poly sci professor you need to do a Ph.d.

FlowBro
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby FlowBro » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:16 pm

csungrl09 wrote:
Redfactor wrote:
csungrl09 wrote:Hey All,

I am a long-time lurker and I finally made an account because I desperately need advice on where I should attend.

Here are some facts first:

-I haven't heard back from UCLA yet. I applied to the Critical Race Studies Program. I will be attending if I am accepted. NO DOUBT.
-I am a veteran dependent receiving a fee waiver that I believe (not 100% positive how much this will save me) will cover atleast tuition at any UC.
-I want to go into academia. **Edited: This includes teaching at the Undergraduate/Graduate school levels. (not just law school)**
-I am wait-listed at both UCI and U of Richmond. If admitted to UCI & not UCLA, I would go...NO DOUBT.
-I have family in california and in the DMV area so cost of living is not much of a factor for me in those two places.

Here are my CURRENT choices (tuition rates include scholarships/grants/fee waivers):

Howard @ $21,000/yr.
U of Maryland @29,000/yr.
U of La Verne @ 19,000/yr.
U of Akron @17,000/yr.
U of D.C. @10,000/yr.

I am not hung up on school names. I am not considering re-taking the LSAT. I am debt averse (graduating with $60,000 or less is the goal. I plan to apply for scholarships the entire time i'm in school).

wwyd?



It doesn't appear you've lurked around long enough or you'd know these are not good schools and they are at very bad prices.

Here's what I would do:

Top Choice: Retake LSAT and reapply another cycle.
Second Choice: Call UC Hastings and UC Davis on Tuesday and ask if they'll accept a late application. If you get in there and can use the program, great.
Third Choice: Not go to law school at these places / prices. Go get a Masters in something and teach in the K-12 level.

I see Howard on the list. Are you black? If so, top choice becomes basically the only choice.


I live in Northridge and my fiancee just finished her grad work there this past year. Please please please take a good hard look and realize that postponing school another year or two is better than enrolling at those schools - especially at those prices.



The question I was asking was simple, given the parameters I set (which included not taking the LSAT over again) what school would people attend? but instead I am getting other opinions. Did I know that this was a possibility when I posed the question? yep. But, I thought I'd give TLSers a chance to answer a question properly. Maybe I just wasn't clear in the OP, but I am getting some good advice.

Thank you for actually answering the question! k-12 level is out so a masters (which I did apply for and was accepted) isn't going to cut it. I think I will give Howard a shot.


You are going to give it a shot? This isn't like buying something off Amazon and then deciding you want to return said item. The amount of type and money you invest in LS will be a HUGE moment in your life for better or worse.

Big Dog
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby Big Dog » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:19 pm

I want to go into academia


I am not hung up on school names.


While you might not care about school names, academics do care, a LOT. They are prestige whores, through and through.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:41 pm

csungrl09 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:The people saying that you won't get academia out of these schools are correct. Doesn't matter whether that academia is law schools or undergrad/grad (it's probably harder for the latter because schools expect a graduate degree in the subject you'd teach in, which won't be law). You might possibly get a non-tenure-track position teaching part-time in a paralegal studies program at a for-profit vocational school (not the goal most people have when they're trying for academia). But that's about it.

If you plan to get a PhD later, why do a JD at all?


I don't need to teach at HYS to be satisfied. I'll be fine at an undergrad institution like the CSU system. For their law/pre-law (and sometimes Poli Sci depending on the classes you are teaching) departments, you must have a JD. also, I can do research independently from any school so the JD would just help me do that research.

You won't get a tenure-track job at a CSU with a JD from any of those schools. Doesn't matter that it's "only" an undergrad institution.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby somewhatwayward » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:53 pm

Why didn't you apply to Hastings and Davis so that you can take advantage of the tuition waiver at one of those if UCI/UCLA don't work out? Call and see if they will take your application now. You would get a much better school at a price similar or less than that of Howard, UDC, Akron, etc. Retaking is definitely the best option but if you insist on attending, you should milk this tuition waiver as much as you can. Don't attend expensive schools like Howard or Akron without full tuition scholarships that are guaranteed (ie, no 'must be top 30% to keep scholarship').

People are right about the difficulty of academia, all up and down the rankings and across colleges, law schools, other graduate programs....the market for academia makes the legal market look like a picnic. We are pumping out way too many PhDs (well, PhDs in the wrong fields) and JDs and everyone realizes that being a professor is a sweet gig, especially a law professor because you get paid a lot (gotta stop 'em from leaving to go be a partner at David Polk, LOL), work little (ABA says you can only teach six, or maybe eight, credits a year), get lots of sabbaticals and research stipends, etc. What is your backup plan if academia does not work out (ie, what is your plan after law school since academia has a .0000000000000000000000001% chance of working out)?

csungrl09
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby csungrl09 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:05 am

timbs4339 wrote:
csungrl09 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:The people saying that you won't get academia out of these schools are correct. Doesn't matter whether that academia is law schools or undergrad/grad (it's probably harder for the latter because schools expect a graduate degree in the subject you'd teach in, which won't be law). You might possibly get a non-tenure-track position teaching part-time in a paralegal studies program at a for-profit vocational school (not the goal most people have when they're trying for academia). But that's about it.

If you plan to get a PhD later, why do a JD at all?


I don't need to teach at HYS to be satisfied. I'll be fine at an undergrad institution like the CSU system. For their law/pre-law (and sometimes Poli Sci depending on the classes you are teaching) departments, you must have a JD. also, I can do research independently from any school so the JD would just help me do that research.


You still don't seem to get this. How much do you really know about this career path?

People are not saying you need to teach at HYS. You are not going to get any tenure-track teaching job, nor any job as an adjunct at a state U, with just a JD and no legal experience. Period. Full stop. The schools on your list allow you to take the bar exam and make 40-60K as a lawyer. They are not a backdoor into yet another over-saturated field. ESPECIALLY over the next few years, when dozens of wannabe lawprofs with HYS degrees, elite clerkships, and publications who cannot find jobs at law schools are going to be looking for jobs at UGs.

If you want to be a pre-law professor or a poly sci professor you need to do a Ph.d.


I already stated that a PhD was in the plan. Thanks anyway.

csungrl09
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby csungrl09 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:06 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
csungrl09 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:The people saying that you won't get academia out of these schools are correct. Doesn't matter whether that academia is law schools or undergrad/grad (it's probably harder for the latter because schools expect a graduate degree in the subject you'd teach in, which won't be law). You might possibly get a non-tenure-track position teaching part-time in a paralegal studies program at a for-profit vocational school (not the goal most people have when they're trying for academia). But that's about it.

If you plan to get a PhD later, why do a JD at all?


I don't need to teach at HYS to be satisfied. I'll be fine at an undergrad institution like the CSU system. For their law/pre-law (and sometimes Poli Sci depending on the classes you are teaching) departments, you must have a JD. also, I can do research independently from any school so the JD would just help me do that research.

You won't get a tenure-track job at a CSU with a JD from any of those schools. Doesn't matter that it's "only" an undergrad institution.



There are CSU professors with law degrees from unranked schools. Already did that research.

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NinerFan
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby NinerFan » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:37 am

csungrl09 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
csungrl09 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:The people saying that you won't get academia out of these schools are correct. Doesn't matter whether that academia is law schools or undergrad/grad (it's probably harder for the latter because schools expect a graduate degree in the subject you'd teach in, which won't be law). You might possibly get a non-tenure-track position teaching part-time in a paralegal studies program at a for-profit vocational school (not the goal most people have when they're trying for academia). But that's about it.

If you plan to get a PhD later, why do a JD at all?


I don't need to teach at HYS to be satisfied. I'll be fine at an undergrad institution like the CSU system. For their law/pre-law (and sometimes Poli Sci depending on the classes you are teaching) departments, you must have a JD. also, I can do research independently from any school so the JD would just help me do that research.

You won't get a tenure-track job at a CSU with a JD from any of those schools. Doesn't matter that it's "only" an undergrad institution.



There are CSU professors with law degrees from unranked schools. Already did that research.


Past performance doesn't guarantee future results. There's a lot of biglaw partners out there with degrees from lesser schools who will readily tell you that, with their qualifications from law school, they would not be hired by their current firms today. You should consider that, back when many of the older professors were hired, the population was much less educated in general. You could go further with your state college degree or whatever compared to now, where good academia jobs are hard to come by.

To put it more simply, how many young CSU professors are there with law degrees from unranked schools?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:38 am

I echo the question about when the JD-holding profs were hired. Also, are these professors tenure-track, or adjunct/contingent faculty? There is a HUGE difference between the two. Do not try for an academic career until you know the difference. And finally, again, if you know you want a PhD, why are you getting a JD?

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untar614
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby untar614 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:22 am

csungrl09 wrote:I already stated that a PhD was in the plan. Thanks anyway.


If you are planning to get both, get the PhD first.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:25 am

untar614 wrote:
csungrl09 wrote:I already stated that a PhD was in the plan. Thanks anyway.


If you are planning to get both, get the PhD first.


Or joint (JD/PhD). Except not at any of the cash sinkholes you're considering.

BigZuck
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby BigZuck » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:25 am

Just get a PhD. You'll be just as unemployed, minus the soul crushing debt.

Real Madrid
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby Real Madrid » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:48 am

While I think TLS posters are often overly dramatic/pessimistic, they're absolutely right in this situation. None of these options are good. People aren't saying that to be assholes, but rather to help you.

Now, if you decide to ignore the warning signs altogether, I suppose I'd just go to UofDC since DC is a cool city. But go ahead and disabuse yourself of the idea of ever being a lawyer if you decide to attend.

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oaken
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby oaken » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:17 am

so why is retaking not an option

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:21 pm

It's not a good idea to get a JD at all if you want to teach at the undergrad level and don't want to practice law. It's a professional degree, it isn't really an academic one. Though some TLS posters can be a little caustic in how they express it, everyone is right that you are setting yourself up for failure with this plan. The reason people won't give you an answer within the parameters that you're setting is that none of these are good options, and that's as a practical matter, not because of elitism.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:35 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:It's not a good idea to get a JD at all if you want to teach at the undergrad level and don't want to practice law. It's a professional degree, it isn't really an academic one.

This is absolutely, completely correct.

lucyindisguise
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby lucyindisguise » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:06 am

Hmm I'd say U of Maryland. I'm a big believer in working with what you've got! I actually have a Harvard law grad living next door, and he hasn't been able to find a law related job since he graduated in 2011 (he struggled in law school). True, he is looking for a job that pays more than $50,000 (it's sad...), but still...going to a T-14 doesn't guarantee everything... With your go-getter attitude and assuming you graduate with high marks, I think you'll be fine wherever you end up, but if you ask me, I'd go with U of Maryland. Are you thinking about transferring at all? Good luck!

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Clearly
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby Clearly » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:37 am

lucyindisguise wrote:Hmm I'd say U of Maryland. I'm a big believer in working with what you've got! I actually have a Harvard law grad living next door, and he hasn't been able to find a law related job since he graduated in 2011 (he struggled in law school). True, he is looking for a job that pays more than $50,000 (it's sad...), but still...going to a T-14 doesn't guarantee everything... With your go-getter attitude and assuming you graduate with high marks, I think you'll be fine wherever you end up, but if you ask me, I'd go with U of Maryland. Are you thinking about transferring at all? Good luck!


Going to Harvard isnt a guarantee, so you should go to Maryland. :roll:

lucyindisguise
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby lucyindisguise » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:21 am

"Going to Harvard isnt a guarantee, so you should go to Maryland." ... what a deduction....lol
no, not what i meant...just saying if retake isn't an option, then go with the best one, and to me it's u of MD.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:22 am

Nice alt, OP.

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Clearly
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Re: Newbie Needs Help Deciding Where To Put A Seat Deposit!!!

Postby Clearly » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:44 am

lucyindisguise wrote:"Going to Harvard isnt a guarantee, so you should go to Maryland." ... what a deduction....lol
no, not what i meant...just saying if retake isn't an option, then go with the best one, and to me it's u of MD.

Except when the best option is not to go.




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