HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

What would you do?

HLS
56
34%
Penn
107
66%
 
Total votes: 163

20141023
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby 20141023 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:12 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sinfiery
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby sinfiery » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:48 pm

Lincoln wrote:Do you want to make an extra $3,000+ per month for the first 10 years of your career? If so, then Penn.

I dunno why, but that wording worked quite well to me.

More like 2600 (1750/.65) but still, that was very convincing to me.

WahooLaw24
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby WahooLaw24 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:57 pm

sinfiery wrote:
Lincoln wrote:Do you want to make an extra $3,000+ per month for the first 10 years of your career? If so, then Penn.

I dunno why, but that wording worked quite well to me.

More like 2600 (1750/.65) but still, that was very convincing to me.


Yeah, well said.

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Yukos
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby Yukos » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:15 pm

I'm just a 0L, but I have similar goals (clerkship is my #1 goal and gov't>>>biglaw>>>>>>>>>unemployment) and I think HYS has a clear advantage for this career path. From lurking the employment forum it seems that DOJ prestige whores pretty badly and these positions are so competitive that coming from HYS is almost a prerequisite at this point. With HYS's great LRAPs you won't be paying most of the added debt anyway so forgoing the scholarship seems worthwhile. Plus, HLS gives a decent boost for clerkships (YS are even better in this regard).

If someone is just looking for biglaw then clearly Penn with a full-ride is TCR. But there are certain career paths that I really think HYS are worth it for, and clerkship -> gov't is one of them.

But maybe I'm just trying to post-hoc rationalize my impending commitment to taking out $250,000 in debt...

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OutCold
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby OutCold » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:26 pm

Look, I'm at Penn now, so here's my take on the matter. Employment prospects in terms of percentage of the class going to biglaw is about equal. The advantage Harvard has is 1) higher clerkship placement and 2) more prestigious clerkship placement. The fact of the matter is that, while all fed clerkships are extremely competitive, they aren't created equally. Harvard will give you more of a shot at SDNY, DC, etc, as well as more COA opportunities. Of course, this is only relevant if you finish near the top of the class at either place, which is far from a given. You mentioned you wanted to clerk, so this may or may not factor into your decision.

That being said, before I attended law school, I probably would have chosen Harvard in your shoes. I would also have regretted that decision. I am nowhere near a fullride at Penn, and I am beginning to feel the weight of the debt that I'll be paying for the next 10 years, which is a heavy burden even with a biglaw job. Unless you are the definition of ambitious and are gunning for a SCOTUS clerkship, I would take Penn for free.

Big Dog
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby Big Dog » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:32 pm

One other thing that isn't often mentioned is the ability of schools like Harvard to place abroad.


Internationals are much more prestige-whorish than American firms, so no surprise.

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Emma.
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby Emma. » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:03 pm

Big Dog wrote:
One other thing that isn't often mentioned is the ability of schools like Harvard to place abroad.


Internationals are much more prestige-whorish than American firms, so no surprise.


But a school's international prestige is different from its lay prestige in the US. Outside the US, people aren't mistaking Penn for Penn State, or UChi for UIC.

20141023
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby 20141023 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:31 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Emma.
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby Emma. » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:37 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
Emma. wrote:
Big Dog wrote:
One other thing that isn't often mentioned is the ability of schools like Harvard to place abroad.


Internationals are much more prestige-whorish than American firms, so no surprise.

But a school's international prestige is different from its lay prestige in the US. Outside the US, people aren't mistaking Penn for Penn State, or UChi for UIC.

True... but in many cases that is because they do not even know what "Pennsylvania" or "Chicago" are, whereas the name "Harvard" has for some reason penetrated a lot of other countries. Even "named" schools like Yale, Stanford, and Princeton are often unknown to locals in foreign countries. I think that this might have something to do with Harvard being extremely strong in so many different categories (undergrad, law, business, etc.).


Those things are also true of Penn and UChi though. I agree that Harvard definitely has more cachet, but I know for a fact that Chicago at least is very well known and well respected internationally, probably much more so than it is in the US.

See, for example, http://www.topuniversities.com/universi ... kings/2012

I also saw another ranking that put both UChi and Penn in the top 10 worldwide, whereas I think if you asked people on the street to name the top 10 universities in the US, many wouldn't name either school.
Last edited by Emma. on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

eph
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby eph » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:40 pm

People get full rides to T14 schools quite often without getting admitted to Harvard. The exceptions are the Hamilton and Rubenstein, although a few have gotten these without being admitted to Harvard. Few if any employers will care what you paid to attend the law school you attended. They will care where you finished in your class and what school you attended, which is much more indicative of future performance. Clients will also not have a clue what the implications of full ride to school X are, they will not care, and good luck telling them or anyone else about your full ride and not coming off as trying way too hard to impress.


Can't we just show them our acceptances to HYS to prove that the decision to take the full ride was an informed one? Then again it is hard to take credit for a school you didn't go to. There are not a whole lot of full rides so quite often statements probably don't apply.

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Nickg415
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby Nickg415 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:42 pm

jbagelboy wrote:Penn unless Harvard gives you a slam dunk need based discount

chillipepper
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby chillipepper » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:45 pm

eph wrote:
People get full rides to T14 schools quite often without getting admitted to Harvard. The exceptions are the Hamilton and Rubenstein, although a few have gotten these without being admitted to Harvard. Few if any employers will care what you paid to attend the law school you attended. They will care where you finished in your class and what school you attended, which is much more indicative of future performance. Clients will also not have a clue what the implications of full ride to school X are, they will not care, and good luck telling them or anyone else about your full ride and not coming off as trying way too hard to impress.


Can't we just show them our acceptances to HYS to prove that the decision to take the full ride was an informed one? Then again it is hard to take credit for a school you didn't go to. There are not a whole lot of full rides so quite often statements probably don't apply.


The brutal truth is that law firms are hiring you partly for your school's name.
Last edited by chillipepper on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jrf12886
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Re: HLS Sticker or Penn Full Ride

Postby jrf12886 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:46 pm

Are you or your parents rich? H gives out generous need-based aid. You may want to see what you would qualify for.




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