Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

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rad lulz
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:43 am


rad lulz
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:45 am


TheNextAmendment
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby TheNextAmendment » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:46 am

Can somebody please intelligently explain what school funded jobs really are? They are considered full-time jobs, but I assume these are just 6 week job opportunities the school creates for their unemployed? What are these kids doing for those 6 weeks/ are any of these kids actually given truly full-time careers from the school?

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Rahviveh
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Rahviveh » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:48 am

George Washington has 130 kids on school funded jobs :(

22.6%

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gw

Anyone know what the national figure is for JD required jobs or has that not leaked yet? Outside of big firm hiring it definitely doesn't look like things got better for c/o 2012
Last edited by Rahviveh on Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby NoodleyOne » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:49 am

TheNextAmendment wrote:Can somebody please intelligently explain what school funded jobs really are? They are considered full-time jobs, but I assume these are just 6 week job opportunities the school creates for their unemployed? What are these kids doing for those 6 weeks/ are any of these kids actually given truly full-time careers from the school?

The answer is:

It depends. Some schools, like UVA offer a 30k fellowship to work at a PS firm for a year in hopes it will lead to a long term gig. Others offer 10 bucks an hour to work at the book store to game the numbers. Checking out which are JD required will help some.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby jenesaislaw » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:50 am

table3 wrote:
K Rock wrote:Is there a chance you accidentily switched the stats for the two Indiana schools? Historically IUB has placed more students out of state and IUI has place a lot more students in state, but this year those numbers seem switched.

Indiana University - Bloomington
69.5% Employed in IN

Indiana University - Indianapolis
32.4% Employed in IN


Interested in the answer to this. Can we get a double check on the IUB v. IUI numbers? They do seem swapped.


Thanks, you all are right. I've fixed it. If somebody could check over it to make sure, it'd be much appreciated.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby jenesaislaw » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:51 am

ChampagnePapi wrote:George Washington has 130 kids on school funded jobs :(

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gw

Anyone know what the national figure is for JD required jobs or has that not leaked yet? Outside of big firm hiring it definitely doesn't look like things got better for c/o 2012


Working on them right now. Will be in the OP fairly soon.

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bowser
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby bowser » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:53 am

TheNextAmendment wrote:Can somebody please intelligently explain what school funded jobs really are? They are considered full-time jobs, but I assume these are just 6 week job opportunities the school creates for their unemployed? What are these kids doing for those 6 weeks/ are any of these kids actually given truly full-time careers from the school?



The weird thing is I think I've only heard from 1 person on TLS who claimed to ever have had one of those jobs. It was a Duke grad or something who said they were all scams. But she also said some really strange things, so people thought she was a flame. Other than that it's a lot of people saying they knew people.

At most places it's where a graduate finds a PI org/govt agency which is willing to let her work for free, while the school pays the graduate a stipend.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby jenesaislaw » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:55 am

TheNextAmendment wrote:Can somebody please intelligently explain what school funded jobs really are? They are considered full-time jobs, but I assume these are just 6 week job opportunities the school creates for their unemployed? What are these kids doing for those 6 weeks/ are any of these kids actually given truly full-time careers from the school?


School-Funded Jobs

A position is law school or university funded if the law school or the university of which it is a part pays the salary of the graduate directly or indirectly and in any amount. Thus, a person employed by the law school in the law library or as a research assistant, research "fellow," or clinic staff attorney has a law school funded position. Similarly, if the position is in the university's library, the position is university funded.

The position is funded directly if the graduate is on the payroll of the law school or the university. The position is funded indirectly if the law school or the university funds another entity in any way and in any amount to pay the salary. The position is also funded indirectly if it is paid through funds solicited from or donated by an outside supporter. Thus, a position in the law library is funded directly by the law school. A position in a legal services office or a law firm that is funded in any amount by the law school is funded indirectly by the law school.

Related Notes
School-funded jobs present an interesting issue for any measurement of employment outcomes because they can span a range of jobs from the desirable to the illusory. On one end are year-long, full-time appointments in jobs that involve substantive legal work, provide valuable experience, and genuinely advance a recent graduate's career. On the other end are part-time positions that last only a short time and are timed to coincide with the nine month employment survey.

The LST Employment Score makes no adjustment for short-term and part-time jobs funded by the school because none is needed. These jobs—often created with an eye towards inflating employment statistics—are already accounted for when we discount for short-term and part-time jobs. For full-time, long-term jobs funded by the school, we have added a red asterisk to indicate what % of the score comes from school-funded jobs.

Note that some of these long-term, full-time bar passage required school-funded jobs might actually be jobs with an indefinite term instead of a definite, one-year term. (It might be tempting to exclude definite-term jobs because of the likelihood that these jobs were structured to inflate employment statistics.) Jobs in clinics, as librarians, as writing instructors, or as professors each could have an indefinite term.

Finally, just for clarity, long-term means the job is either a fixed term of one+ year or an indefinite term. Short-term is everything else, e.g. a job that hires for six weeks. A full-time job is one that is 35 hours or more per week.

rad lulz
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:56 am

bowser wrote:
TheNextAmendment wrote:Can somebody please intelligently explain what school funded jobs really are? They are considered full-time jobs, but I assume these are just 6 week job opportunities the school creates for their unemployed? What are these kids doing for those 6 weeks/ are any of these kids actually given truly full-time careers from the school?



The weird thing is I think I've only heard from 1 person on TLS who claimed to ever have had one of those jobs. It was a Duke grad or something who said they were all scams. But she also said some really strange things, so people thought she was a flame. Other than that it's a lot of people saying they knew people.

At most places it's where a graduate finds a PI org/govt agency which is willing to let her work for free, while the school pays the graduate a stipend.

There was a thread a couple weeks ago where a dude who went to UIUC(?) and was working school funded at a PD somewhere eventually got a full time offer.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby jenesaislaw » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:57 am

ChampagnePapi wrote:
North wrote:Bug: The Salary Response Score for the esteemed Charleston School of Lawl seems to be pulling from the wrong line of the spreadsheet. It says 'June 2013' where I imagine there should be a number.


Looks like they all have that. Isn't the salary stuff from the NALP report, yet to be released?


Just want to clarify. It says June 2013 because that's when schools will receive their NALP reports. At that point, we'll ask for the reports and either leave the salary score blank or fill it in with data. Some schools are already publishing salary information, though, so definitely check school sites for c/of 2012 salary data.

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Nickg415
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Nickg415 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:58 am

TheNextAmendment wrote:Can somebody please intelligently explain what school funded jobs really are? They are considered full-time jobs, but I assume these are just 6 week job opportunities the school creates for their unemployed? What are these kids doing for those 6 weeks/ are any of these kids actually given truly full-time careers from the school?


This article is kind of interesting:

http://abovethelaw.com/2013/03/in-defen ... graduates/

In the end I feel that they can be good thing when, as the article noted, they are used correctly. They generally have a negative reputation because people are afraid of them. This is because these types of positions provide schools with the opportunity to inflate their employment numbers. However, the fact that the amount of these positions given it is readily available definitely lessens the pay-off that they get by giving these jobs.

rad lulz
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:59 am

Oregon, state flagship, 37.9% employment score

Best Oregon school, L&C was at 53%

I guess there are like no jobs in Oregon

Brixton
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Brixton » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:01 pm

So if we click on a state and a given school is not found under that state, does that mean that particular school has zero graduates working in legal-related (bar required) jobs in that state?

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justonemoregame
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby justonemoregame » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:04 pm

Jenes, when you click on Geographic reports, it brings up a map which shows DC as a rather large island in the Atlantic, which is grossly inaccurate.

chillipepper
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby chillipepper » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:05 pm

Yale 82% ?! say what. TTT

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Nickg415
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Nickg415 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:05 pm

justonemoregame wrote:Jenes, when you click on Geographic reports, it brings up a map which shows DC as a rather large island in the Atlantic, which is grossly inaccurate.


:roll:

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby jenesaislaw » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:09 pm

Brixton wrote:So if we click on a state and a given school is not found under that state, does that mean that particular school has zero graduates working in legal-related (bar required) jobs in that state?


No. That means that the school did not place 5% of its graduates in that state, in any capacity. (This is a limit of the Score Reports, sadly, but it's because of the data available.)

What it means is that the school does not have a demonstrated connection to the state for the given year. Next year (most likely), once we have three years of state-by-state data for all schools, we'll be aggregating multiple years of state placement data to place schools on state reports.

Again, it does not mean that the school did not place any graduates there, or that it can't. It does make it very unlikely and guarantee that it's not one of the top three states for a school's 2012 graduates.

One other note. The following schools might belong on more states than the three state reports they're on already, but have not published (as of last night) enough data to determine.

Catholic
Widener
Michigan
Yale
Duke
Howard
Stanford
GW
William & Mary
Emory
Western New England
Cal - Berkeley
NYU
Syracuse
Case Western
American
Columbia
Tulane
Samford (Cumberland)
Appalachian
UDC
IU
Villanova
U Wisconsin
U Idaho
Wake Forest
Georgetown
UConn
George Mason
Vermont
Cornell
U New Hampshire

TheNextAmendment
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby TheNextAmendment » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:10 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:
TheNextAmendment wrote:Can somebody please intelligently explain what school funded jobs really are? They are considered full-time jobs, but I assume these are just 6 week job opportunities the school creates for their unemployed? What are these kids doing for those 6 weeks/ are any of these kids actually given truly full-time careers from the school?


School-Funded Jobs

A position is law school or university funded if the law school or the university of which it is a part pays the salary of the graduate directly or indirectly and in any amount. Thus, a person employed by the law school in the law library or as a research assistant, research "fellow," or clinic staff attorney has a law school funded position. Similarly, if the position is in the university's library, the position is university funded.

The position is funded directly if the graduate is on the payroll of the law school or the university. The position is funded indirectly if the law school or the university funds another entity in any way and in any amount to pay the salary. The position is also funded indirectly if it is paid through funds solicited from or donated by an outside supporter. Thus, a position in the law library is funded directly by the law school. A position in a legal services office or a law firm that is funded in any amount by the law school is funded indirectly by the law school.

Related Notes
School-funded jobs present an interesting issue for any measurement of employment outcomes because they can span a range of jobs from the desirable to the illusory. On one end are year-long, full-time appointments in jobs that involve substantive legal work, provide valuable experience, and genuinely advance a recent graduate's career. On the other end are part-time positions that last only a short time and are timed to coincide with the nine month employment survey.

The LST Employment Score makes no adjustment for short-term and part-time jobs funded by the school because none is needed. These jobs—often created with an eye towards inflating employment statistics—are already accounted for when we discount for short-term and part-time jobs. For full-time, long-term jobs funded by the school, we have added a red asterisk to indicate what % of the score comes from school-funded jobs.

Note that some of these long-term, full-time bar passage required school-funded jobs might actually be jobs with an indefinite term instead of a definite, one-year term. (It might be tempting to exclude definite-term jobs because of the likelihood that these jobs were structured to inflate employment statistics.) Jobs in clinics, as librarians, as writing instructors, or as professors each could have an indefinite term.

Finally, just for clarity, long-term means the job is either a fixed term of one+ year or an indefinite term. Short-term is everything else, e.g. a job that hires for six weeks. A full-time job is one that is 35 hours or more per week.


Thanks for the detailed, prompt response. Keep up the good work.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby jenesaislaw » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:11 pm

justonemoregame wrote:Jenes, when you click on Geographic reports, it brings up a map which shows DC as a rather large island in the Atlantic, which is grossly inaccurate.


If anybody knows somebody who can program SVG maps, please have them email us. I can only manipulate SVGs, so I moved the DC marker and made it larger in the ocean. This is better than having it be a tiny dot you can barely click.

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justonemoregame
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby justonemoregame » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:13 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:
justonemoregame wrote:Jenes, when you click on Geographic reports, it brings up a map which shows DC as a rather large island in the Atlantic, which is grossly inaccurate.


If anybody knows somebody who can program SVG maps, please have them email us. I can only manipulate SVGs, so I moved the DC marker and made it larger in the ocean. This is better than having it be a tiny dot you can barely click.


I like how you've done it, ALL HAIL

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BlueJeanBaby
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:15 pm

Thank you for this! Tagging

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Tier2Allstar
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Tier2Allstar » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:21 pm

I am always curious about New Jersey schools and what employment looks like for the slew of state clerks all the schools have the year after. Like half of Rutgers-Camden had a State Clerkship.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby jenesaislaw » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:23 pm

Tier2Allstar wrote:I am always curious about New Jersey schools and what employment looks like for the slew of state clerks all the schools have the year after. Like half of Rutgers-Camden had a State Clerkship.


Agreed. I think if the NJ schools are going to put this out there as the best path to work in NJ, they need to justify it with real data not anecdotes.

rad lulz
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:30 pm

,
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