Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

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cahwc12
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby cahwc12 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:04 pm

Nickg415 wrote:
RELIC wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:Has anyone else noticed that the unemployment rate for law school graduates (9.2%) is actually higher than the national average (7.7%)?

I think it is 10.6% for 2012 grads but I also think that the national average is calculated very differently.


This is very true. the method for calculating the national unemployment rate is much more forgiving in that it excludes people who are not actively looking for employment. Much of the improvement in the national employment rate hasn't necessarily been due to an increase rate of new job creation but a decrease in the work force due to people not actively looking for jobs.

Edit: It looks like the ABA uses the same type of calculation (unemp/seeking), as long as they define the workforce the same the calculations should be comparable.


most schools crop out people they define as "unemployed-not seeking," but it's unclear where those numbers are in the ABA data, so perhaps it is a bit lower.

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oaken
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby oaken » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:27 pm

where the heck is that thread where they added up the percentages of federal clerkships + biglaw jobs and just listed them all in a row? i've been looking everywhere and i can't find it

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Elston Gunn » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:28 pm

oaken wrote:where the heck is that thread where they added up the percentages of federal clerkships + biglaw jobs and just listed them all in a row? i've been looking everywhere and i can't find it

Should be stickied: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206368

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oaken
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby oaken » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:20 am

Elston Gunn wrote:
oaken wrote:where the heck is that thread where they added up the percentages of federal clerkships + biglaw jobs and just listed them all in a row? i've been looking everywhere and i can't find it

Should be stickied: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=206368


thanks

Kurst
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Kurst » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:26 pm

oaken wrote:where the heck is that thread where they added up the percentages of federal clerkships + biglaw jobs and just listed them all in a row? i've been looking everywhere and i can't find it

That data is in this very thread...

Brixton
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Brixton » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:11 pm

Has anyone gone through and calculated the actual numbers of graduates being placed into federal clerkship positions and biglaw jobs? The percentages are nice, but I feel that actual numbers would mean more...I'm looking at you UCI.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:46 pm

Brixton wrote:Has anyone gone through and calculated the actual numbers of graduates being placed into federal clerkship positions and biglaw jobs? The percentages are nice, but I feel that actual numbers would mean more...I'm looking at you UCI.


Check out any school's profile on LST, click the ABA Format tab.

20141023
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby 20141023 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:04 am

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Brixton
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Brixton » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:48 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
Brixton wrote:Has anyone gone through and calculated the actual numbers of graduates being placed into federal clerkship positions and biglaw jobs? The percentages are nice, but I feel that actual numbers would mean more...I'm looking at you UCI.

lol wut? Why in the world would raw numbers "mean more?" If you look at just raw numbers of biglaw (101+ firms) plus federal clerkships, Georgetown has 268 whereas Yale only has 148. It would thus seem as if GULC > Yale based on raw numbers alone. However, turn this into percentages and you get GULC = 43% versus Yale = 67%.

It wouldn't make sense to look at this even for UCI, for they only placed 29 people into biglaw + federal clerkships, which isn't too far off from Cooley, which placed 15 people into such positions. However, run the ratios again and you get UCI = 52% versus Cooley = 1%.


The point I'm trying to make is that looking at just percentages isn't enough. Heck, looking at just numbers isn't enough either. You make a good point and if someone were to simply look at numbers, that could be even more misleading. I believe you need to look at both. The more information you can use, the better the decision you will make. I guess the question is (if looking to get into Big Law/Fed Clerkships,) does one believe he/she has a better shot at gaining one of these positions at a school that places 20% of 200 or 20% of 100? There are probably many other factors that have important implications on the answer.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:59 pm

Brixton, I'm with you on this. I'd also add that it'd be smart for people to look at the raw data to try to extrapolate how things will be in a few years. For example, somebody might look at a state's labor projections and combine it with the expected graduation class sizes of feeder schools based on enrollment data. This works much better in more isolated states, i.e. not California, Illinois, New York, or D.C.

20141023
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby 20141023 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:21 pm

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guinness1547
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby guinness1547 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:57 pm

I'm curious about something. Northwestern's NLJ 250 placement was 51.43, while Cornell's was 44.27. But for firms with 101+ lawyers Cornell outperforms Northwestern 57.9% compared to 49.2%. What causes that kind of discrepancy?

SportsFan
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby SportsFan » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:08 pm

guinness1547 wrote:I'm curious about something. Northwestern's NLJ 250 placement was 51.43, while Cornell's was 44.27. But for firms with 101+ lawyers Cornell outperforms Northwestern 57.9% compared to 49.2%. What causes that kind of discrepancy?

NLJ has a lot of underreporting, and apparently Northwestern's NLJ percentage isn't computed properly (I read that somewhere on here, anyway).

20141023
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby 20141023 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:33 pm

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sinfiery
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby sinfiery » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:34 pm

Thx kappycaft1! Nice to have it all in 1 place

I wonder if Columbia is going to break 90% for clerkship + biglaw when the class of 368 students data comes out

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby NoodleyOne » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:39 pm

SportsFan wrote:
guinness1547 wrote:I'm curious about something. Northwestern's NLJ 250 placement was 51.43, while Cornell's was 44.27. But for firms with 101+ lawyers Cornell outperforms Northwestern 57.9% compared to 49.2%. What causes that kind of discrepancy?

NLJ has a lot of underreporting, and apparently Northwestern's NLJ percentage isn't computed properly (I read that somewhere on here, anyway).

Source?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:42 pm

NoodleyOne wrote:
SportsFan wrote:
guinness1547 wrote:I'm curious about something. Northwestern's NLJ 250 placement was 51.43, while Cornell's was 44.27. But for firms with 101+ lawyers Cornell outperforms Northwestern 57.9% compared to 49.2%. What causes that kind of discrepancy?

NLJ has a lot of underreporting, and apparently Northwestern's NLJ percentage isn't computed properly (I read that somewhere on here, anyway).

Source?

It was off this year. NLJ had Northwestern with 280 grads, but the ABA shows 295.

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bowser
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby bowser » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:49 pm

sinfiery wrote:Thx kappycaft1! Nice to have it all in 1 place

I wonder if Columbia is going to break 90% for clerkship + biglaw when the class of 368 students data comes out



Huh?

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sinfiery
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby sinfiery » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:55 pm

http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/ ... ss-profile

Matriculants: 368

In the c/o 2012 they had 469 graduates


Even after transfers, I'd imagine a significantly smaller class size

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bowser
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby bowser » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:02 pm

sinfiery wrote:http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/jd/experience/class-profile

Matriculants: 368

In the c/o 2012 they had 469 graduates


Even after transfers, I'd imagine a significantly smaller class size



Even if there were only ~400 graduates (I have a feeling there will be somewhat more, as CLS takes a ton of transfers), I don't think you can assume roughly the same number will get Biglaw/clerkship with a smaller class. That doesn't take into account grades and other stuff related to student population as a whole.

Also, when almost literally everyone who did EIP got an offer (like 98% of participants), the Biglaw/clerkship probably hovered around 85%.

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sinfiery
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby sinfiery » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:04 pm

I see. Well, guess I won't hold my breath.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Rahviveh » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:06 pm

bowser wrote:
sinfiery wrote:http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/jd/experience/class-profile

Matriculants: 368

In the c/o 2012 they had 469 graduates


Even after transfers, I'd imagine a significantly smaller class size



Even if there were only ~400 graduates (I have a feeling there will be somewhat more, as CLS takes a ton of transfers), I don't think you can assume roughly the same number will get Biglaw/clerkship with a smaller class. That doesn't take into account grades and other stuff related to student population as a whole.

Also, when almost literally everyone who did EIP got an offer (like 98% of participants), the Biglaw/clerkship probably hovered around 85%.

Where are you getting that from? Is that for c/o 2014?

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bowser
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby bowser » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:10 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
bowser wrote:
sinfiery wrote:http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/jd/experience/class-profile

Matriculants: 368

In the c/o 2012 they had 469 graduates


Even after transfers, I'd imagine a significantly smaller class size



Even if there were only ~400 graduates (I have a feeling there will be somewhat more, as CLS takes a ton of transfers), I don't think you can assume roughly the same number will get Biglaw/clerkship with a smaller class. That doesn't take into account grades and other stuff related to student population as a whole.

Also, when almost literally everyone who did EIP got an offer (like 98% of participants), the Biglaw/clerkship probably hovered around 85%.

Where are you getting that from? Is that for c/o 2014?


Someone at CLS posted that 97.5% of EIP participants received at least one offer sometime in the mid-2000 OCIs. (Maybe 2006?) It seemed fairly legit, since CLS does give that information out to the 1L class.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Rahviveh » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:13 pm

bowser wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
bowser wrote:
sinfiery wrote:http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/jd/experience/class-profile

Matriculants: 368

In the c/o 2012 they had 469 graduates


Even after transfers, I'd imagine a significantly smaller class size



Even if there were only ~400 graduates (I have a feeling there will be somewhat more, as CLS takes a ton of transfers), I don't think you can assume roughly the same number will get Biglaw/clerkship with a smaller class. That doesn't take into account grades and other stuff related to student population as a whole.

Also, when almost literally everyone who did EIP got an offer (like 98% of participants), the Biglaw/clerkship probably hovered around 85%.

Where are you getting that from? Is that for c/o 2014?


Someone at CLS posted that 97.5% of EIP participants received at least one offer sometime in the mid-2000 OCIs. (Maybe 2006?) It seemed fairly legit, since CLS does give that information out to the 1L class.

Oh OK I see now, I misunderstood you

guyonabuffalo
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby guyonabuffalo » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:50 am

SportsFan wrote:
guinness1547 wrote:I'm curious about something. Northwestern's NLJ 250 placement was 51.43, while Cornell's was 44.27. But for firms with 101+ lawyers Cornell outperforms Northwestern 57.9% compared to 49.2%. What causes that kind of discrepancy?

NLJ has a lot of underreporting, and apparently Northwestern's NLJ percentage isn't computed properly (I read that somewhere on here, anyway).


Does this mean that the NLJ and the other stat (%grads sent to law firms with 101+ lawyers) are looking at the same thing? Does this also mean the non-NLJ stat is more accurate?




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