Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

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09042014
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:19 pm

Yea that sucks that they lump in internships funded by the school into government fulltime jobs.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby jenesaislaw » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:24 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Yea that sucks that they lump in internships funded by the school into government fulltime jobs.


I tried to get them to change this this year. The Council considered it and decided it would make the ABA chart too cumbersome. I suggested they just release it in spreadsheet form for researchers. That didn't work. The compromise is what you see now: school-funded broken down by job credentials (e.g. BPR, JDA).

What's worse, in my opinion, is that there are schools that mistakenly report school-funded jobs with judges as clerkships instead of in government. This is wrong and I am trying to do something about it. Hopefully I'll have more on this in the near future

rad lulz
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:30 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Yea that sucks that they lump in internships funded by the school into government fulltime jobs.

Yeah that's not helpful

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby shifty_eyed » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:05 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:
What's worse, in my opinion, is that there are schools that mistakenly report school-funded jobs with judges as clerkships instead of in government. This is wrong and I am trying to do something about it. Hopefully I'll have more on this in the near future


Is it really, though?

rad lulz
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:09 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:15 pm

Nickg415 wrote:A lot of people talk about how the unemployment rate you face coming out of law school is 55% but this take into account TTT schools and unaccredited schools that no one should attend. I thought it would be interesting to see employment rates dissagregated by tier/school rank. I broke up the schools into the most common groupings on TLS and looked at an estimate of the underemployment rank students graduating from a school in a certain group would face. Underemployment is simply unemployed + working part time. This is just an estimate in that the numbers represent an average of the underemployment rates, the actual underemployment rates will vary by 1 or 2 percent.

T10: 5.51%
T14: 7.75%
T25: 13.36%
T50: 19.00%
51-100: 28.69%
101-148: 31.002 %

Looking at this those from the T10 schools are doing better in terms of employment than the national average. This can probably be said for T14 and possibly T25 once we only look at unemployment. This isn't looking at the question regarding the ridiculous cost of attendance which must be considering when looking at whether or not these students are better of than the national average. Once you look at the lower T50 and up things get drastically worst.

Eventually I want to spend some time and get the actual underemployment rates and then compare them with the previous years. It can then be said whether or not employment prospects are improving for higher ranked schools while getting worst for lower rank schools.


Nice post.

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LSATSCORES2012
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby LSATSCORES2012 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:22 pm

rad lulz wrote:
shifty_eyed wrote:
jenesaislaw wrote:
What's worse, in my opinion, is that there are schools that mistakenly report school-funded jobs with judges as clerkships instead of in government. This is wrong and I am trying to do something about it. Hopefully I'll have more on this in the near future


Is it really, though?

Begging a judge to work for them for free isn't a clerkship or even a desirable outcome

I think she was suggesting that they might actually be reporting jobs in this way on purpose (even though, as you pointed out, it's not a wholly honest thing to do).

09042014
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:23 pm

rad lulz wrote:
shifty_eyed wrote:
jenesaislaw wrote:
What's worse, in my opinion, is that there are schools that mistakenly report school-funded jobs with judges as clerkships instead of in government. This is wrong and I am trying to do something about it. Hopefully I'll have more on this in the near future


Is it really, though?

Begging a judge to work for them for free isn't a clerkship or even a desirable outcome


If the judge treats you like a real clerk instead of an intern, it's probably not a bad deal. Should still count as UNEMPLOYED though. All school funded jobs should be.

rad lulz
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:23 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby jenesaislaw » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:35 pm

I read that the same as rad did, but can see why we'd be wrong in our interpretation.

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby shifty_eyed » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:39 pm

LSATSCORES2012 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
shifty_eyed wrote:
jenesaislaw wrote:
What's worse, in my opinion, is that there are schools that mistakenly report school-funded jobs with judges as clerkships instead of in government. This is wrong and I am trying to do something about it. Hopefully I'll have more on this in the near future


Is it really, though?

Begging a judge to work for them for free isn't a clerkship or even a desirable outcome

I think she was suggesting that they might actually be reporting jobs in this way on purpose (even though, as you pointed out, it's not a wholly honest thing to do).


Yes, that is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion!

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bk1
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:44 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:http://www.nalp.org/new_associate_sal_oct2011

BigLaw went to 160K in 2007. Until Gunderson Dettmer raised to 125K in 1999 BigLaw paid under 100K.

That Gunderson hiring like 5-10 SAs caused the much of biglaw to raise their salaries in response is kinda hilarious.

09042014
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:00 pm

bk1 wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:http://www.nalp.org/new_associate_sal_oct2011

BigLaw went to 160K in 2007. Until Gunderson Dettmer raised to 125K in 1999 BigLaw paid under 100K.

That Gunderson hiring like 5-10 SAs caused the much of biglaw to raise their salaries in response is kinda hilarious.


Won't really work again. An IP botique jumped to 180K and nobody followed.

A lot of the problem is the follow the leader effect. Firms only have an incentive to do it if other firms don't follow.

Maybe you'd see a firm announce right before OCI or something, but it's still not worth it.

Hard to complain since that quasi collusion is what kept market at 160K during the crash.

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bk1
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:01 pm

Desert Fox wrote:A lot of the problem is the follow the leader effect. Firms only have an incentive to do it if other firms don't follow.

Maybe you'd see a firm announce right before OCI or something, but it's still not worth it.

I mean this was essentially what Gunderson did, iirc. I assume being flush at the time made firms less hesitant to follow.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:02 pm

bk1 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:A lot of the problem is the follow the leader effect. Firms only have an incentive to do it if other firms don't follow.

Maybe you'd see a firm announce right before OCI or something, but it's still not worth it.

I mean this was essentially what Gunderson did, iirc. I assume being flush at the time made firms less hesitant to follow.

Firms all rolling in money plus Gunderson was just big enough to compete with some other SV/SF firms, which were just big enough to compete with the other big Cali firms, which were national. So it spread like wildfire.

RPK34
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby RPK34 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:16 pm

OP, can you explain how this data is compiled from grads? How do the schools get information on 100% of graduates? Require the information prior to graduation or something?

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby jenesaislaw » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:41 pm

RPK34 wrote:OP, can you explain how this data is compiled from grads? How do the schools get information on 100% of graduates? Require the information prior to graduation or something?


The data are captured as of February 15 following graduation, so information gathered prior to graduation can only help schools so much. Generally, law schools survey graduates, re-survey them, call them, and/or stalk them on Facebook, LinkedIn, Martindale, or State Bar websites. The data can also come from credible associates of the graduates, i.e. fellow students, professors, etc. Some schools hire private investigators to fill in the gaps too.

20141023
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby 20141023 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:55 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jaqen
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby Jaqen » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:13 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
jenesaislaw wrote:
RPK34 wrote:OP, can you explain how this data is compiled from grads? How do the schools get information on 100% of graduates? Require the information prior to graduation or something?


The data are captured as of February 15 following graduation, so information gathered prior to graduation can only help schools so much. Generally, law schools survey graduates, re-survey them, call them, and/or stalk them on Facebook, LinkedIn, Martindale, or State Bar websites. The data can also come from credible associates of the graduates, i.e. fellow students, professors, etc. Some schools hire private investigators to fill in the gaps too.

Whoah... what the fuck...

wannabelawstudent
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby wannabelawstudent » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:38 pm

What exactly is Business & Industry. I assume these all aren't in-house or even compliance. Are they all considered "professional positions"

rad lulz
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:42 pm

wannabelawstudent wrote:What exactly is Business & Industry. I assume these all aren't in-house or even compliance. Are they all considered "professional positions"

Can mean anything from working at McDs to working for BCG

20141023
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby 20141023 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:18 am

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby ManoftheHour » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:55 am

I have a question on how this works. I'll use Notre Dame as an example because it's a school that I am interested in.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=notredame

The 64.3 (employment rate) + 20.4 (underemployed) + 9.2 (Fed clerkship) = 93.9. The unknown score is 0.

Where did the other 6.1 go? Am I missing something here?

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby ManoftheHour » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:58 am

jenesaislaw wrote:
Crowing wrote:Also wondering since employed + underemployed + unknown don't add up to 100, what is the rest?


* LT, FT J.D. Advantage
* LT, FT Professional
* LT, FT Solo Practice

If you're on the state report's main page, click a school's row and there's a pie chart that shows the breakdown.


Okay, my bad. Should have read this first.

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megagnarley
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Re: Class of 2012 Employment Statistics (new LST Score Reports)

Postby megagnarley » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:32 pm

Interesting to see Mich with such a high public servie score at %16. (compared to a schools like Penn with 5.2% or Duke with 9.3%)

You have to imagine a good deal of those folks could have gotten big-law.

Perhaps this helps validate some of the thought that self selection has played into their lower placement numbers?




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