T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:46 pm

Georgetown gives you a 40% chance at biglaw
UVA gives you a 48% chance at biglaw
Cornell gives you a 58% chance at biglaw

Lost_Dreams
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Lost_Dreams » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:10 pm

AllezOM wrote:Have you thought about Part Time programs. I am in the exact same position as you with a stable job making around 80k. I did decent on the LSAT, but no way I could give up my job so I am enrolling PT.


do part time law students still qualify for top law firm jobs? (internships opportunities, OCI, etc are these still open for part timers?)

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tuffyjohnson
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby tuffyjohnson » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:20 pm

Ghost93 wrote:Georgetown gives you a 40% chance at biglaw
UVA gives you a 48% chance at biglaw
Cornell gives you a 58% chance at biglaw


Is biglaw the only possible good outcome from law school? In reading this site one would def. think so.

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jbagelboy
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:27 pm

I work at a Consulting firm now making a simar salary and I will be leaving it to go into $200,000 of debt at a top law school like UVA.

If you want to be an attorney, ignore most of the above posters and go to UVA. If you dont care about being an attorney all that much but you just hate your job and want to find a glitzy way out that doesnt seem like slacking, take their advice.

I actually want to practice law, and so my current consulting gig is not sufficient. Could be the same for you, could be different.

P.s. its remarkable you got into UVA and cornell with a 3.1. Bravo and congrats

Lost_Dreams
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Lost_Dreams » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:32 pm

^

Do you work in management consulting or IT consulting? If formal, what are your reasons for wanting to leave?

For part time law school programs - how many times a week do I need to be inside a classroom? Assuming that I go with PT, I won't be able to attend classes Mon - Thurs, since my job requires that I travel 70-80% of the time.

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:06 pm

tuffyjohnson wrote:Is biglaw the only possible good outcome from law school? In reading this site one would def. think so.

OP says they want biglaw, which is what they would need anyways after paying sticker at a lower T14.

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BitterSplitter
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby BitterSplitter » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:23 pm

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Last edited by BitterSplitter on Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jimbo_Jones
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Jimbo_Jones » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:01 am

Lost_Dreams wrote:For part time law school programs - how many times a week do I need to be inside a classroom? Assuming that I go with PT, I won't be able to attend classes Mon - Thurs, since my job requires that I travel 70-80% of the time.


If you're traveling that much, I honestly don't think you'll have time for a PT program.

As a 1L part-timer, I'm in class MWTh from 6-9:30PM + 10:00PM-12:00AM studying/cleaning up notes after class. On off-days (Tues and Fri), its usually 6PM-12AM studying/homework/outlining, and weekends 8AM-12PM, 3PM-12AM studying/homework/outlining. And I still feel like I need more time.

This is in addition to 45-50 hrs/week working FT as an engineer.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Blessedassurance » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:09 am

BitterSplitter wrote:You definitely know better the benefits and drawbacks of your own situation, but I think that the time in law school and immediately following it is the sacrifice period to enjoy better financial security 3-5 years out of school til the day you die


for the class of 2012, 13.5% of umn grads got jobs at firms with 101+ attorneys (http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=minnesota). you have a greater than 80% chance of not getting "biglaw" out of umn. think about that for a minute.

it's all moot anyways. i suspect you will head to law school anyways based on your delusions as exhibited above. godspeed.

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haus
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby haus » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:13 am

Jimbo_Jones wrote:
Lost_Dreams wrote:For part time law school programs - how many times a week do I need to be inside a classroom? Assuming that I go with PT, I won't be able to attend classes Mon - Thurs, since my job requires that I travel 70-80% of the time.


If you're traveling that much, I honestly don't think you'll have time for a PT program.

As a 1L part-timer, I'm in class MWTh from 6-9:30PM + 10:00PM-12:00AM studying/cleaning up notes after class. On off-days (Tues and Fri), its usually 6PM-12AM studying/homework/outlining, and weekends 8AM-12PM, 3PM-12AM studying/homework/outlining. And I still feel like I need more time.

This is in addition to 45-50 hrs/week working FT as an engineer.

From my research most part-time programs are not very flexible. The one closet to my office requires classes M-F in the first year, which does not give much of a breather for anything else.

The exception to this rule that I am aware of is Hamline (in the Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN area), which runs a PT program where you take classes all day Sat and Sun. Although all of the traditional warnings of considering a school this far down the ranking structure would apply.

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BitterSplitter
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby BitterSplitter » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:22 am

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Last edited by BitterSplitter on Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Blessedassurance » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:09 am

BitterSplitter wrote:etc etc


whatever makes you feel better, man. u seem dumb, like a couple of iq points far removed from sheep.

if you wanna engage in some proletariat angst-driven, anti-affirmative action rhetoric, you should pick a more appropriate candidate. i'm the wrong example to use.

i'm not being condescending, i'm politely calling you a moron. i didn't do any "digging"...you stated in this thread you're contemplating heading to umn etc. are you a generic idiot or is this some sort of calculated, slow-burning shtick?

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BitterSplitter
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby BitterSplitter » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:18 am

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Last edited by BitterSplitter on Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BitterSplitter
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby BitterSplitter » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:29 am

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Last edited by BitterSplitter on Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Blessedassurance » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:37 am

BitterSplitter wrote:etc etc


i'll indulge you.

see, you don't "win" anything. i have one of those 160k things you're talking about. here's how it works:

if you leave a 70k job for law school, you first forgo three years of making that 70k in order to go to law school. if you're going at sticker, you're going to graduate with over 200k debt upon graduation (more like 250k, or 280k at a place like berkeley etc).

if you don't go to hys,with exceptions, you need to bet on new york. getting 160k in new york actually comes to 90-something grand after taxes. out of that, you have to pay your loans, and pay a ridiculous amount for rent etc. lasting long enough to pay off your loans in biglaw is itself a gamble. after about 4-5 years of aggressively paying off loans, you'd be back at zero net worth, assuming you haven't been shitcanned or quit, lest you lose your sanity. all this is based on the assumption that you secure biglaw in the first place which is incredibly difficult to do coming out of a place like umn. even at uva, why would you give up a 70k gig and bet 250k plus 3 years of forgone income on a 50% chance of securing biglaw from which you might be shitcanned at anytime?

you need to do your research with a neutral, objective mind. again, godspeed.
Last edited by Blessedassurance on Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Blessedassurance » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:40 am

BitterSplitter wrote: I hope your banking on something else to make your legal career. Make sure you don't pick your own jury. And yes, you were being condescending. Saying you weren't doesn't change the fact that you were. Thanks for your politeness, however you'll find it's not reciprocated here.


you assume i benefited from affirmative action. you also assume i'm less qualified than my classmates. you're wrong on both counts but i neither have the time nor energy to get into all that or out myself.

of course you grew up a prole. where else could this level of obtuseness emanate from, you insufferable oaf?

do yourself a favor and do not go to law school.

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BitterSplitter
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby BitterSplitter » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:11 am

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BitterSplitter
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby BitterSplitter » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:27 am

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Last edited by BitterSplitter on Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Blessedassurance » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:30 am

nothing i say will change your mind like i told you in the beginning. it's hard to appreciate the gravity of the situation till you take the plunge. just do your research. this thing ruins lives.

and for the "winners":

http://abovethelaw.com/2013/03/unhappie ... e-a-guess/

the "ceiling" at your job may be a problem, but going to law school is probably not the answer. certainly not going to umn.

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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby sparty99 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:39 pm

Lost_Dreams wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Lost_Dreams wrote:got shot down from most of high finance/ management consulting jobs, which would have suit my career interests better than my current job.

dude, what? if you honestly feel that way, going to law school is retarded. law is even less like high finance/management consulting than what you're doing now. go to a top b-school and get your second bite of the apple.


I considered (and still considering, if I don't end up at law school) going for MBA. However, the main issues I have with MBA is that even if you go to a top-ranked program, the chances of landing an I-banking or a management consulting gig is pretty low. I talked to my friend at U Chicago MBA. He told me that like 30-40% of 2nd year MBA students don't even have a job lined up at this moment.

With law school, I'd think at least most people end up with decent, law-related jobs if you attend a top school. Getting a Biglaw job, I think, is relatively easy compared to getting I-banking or top consulting job. You go to a good law school, get good grades, and just do ok with 20-30 minute conversational interviews. WIth I-banking, you have to network like your life depends on it, even if you go to a top MBA, just to have a shot at a first-round interview. And, landing at management consulting is harder than landing I-banking, so go figure.

After this analysis, and after considering that I don't want to stay in IT consulting field for life, I've been seriously considering law school.


LOL at you thinking getting big law is easy. Bitch, please.

sparty99
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby sparty99 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:40 pm

Lost_Dreams wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Lost_Dreams wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster here. I came here to get some career advice from those knowledgeable TLS law school veterans.

Some background info: I currently work at a large consulting firm as an IT consultant. (think IBM, Capgemini, Deloitte, Accenture, PwC, Booze Allen Hamilton, etc) I graduated from college 2 years ago, and have been working at this job since then. I make decent salary (70k), but the four big problems I have with my job are: 1) the work I do is pretty boring, and I don't really enjoy IT-related work all that much (I originally wanted to go into finance/management consulting, but I failed), 2) constant, weekly required travel to bumb-fuck places is wearing me down, 3) I feel that staying in IT consulting pigeonholes me into a very specific line of career and I feel that there are no meaningful exit opportunities outside of IT related jobs, 4) most of stuff I do on daily basis doesn't really require much thinking/ analytical skills, and I sometimes feel brain-dead doing the job.

I've given serious consideration into law school since last year. I graduated from UPenn with degree in Econ. But, while in college, I really screwed up my GPA and got shot down from most of high finance/ management consulting jobs, which would have suit my career interests better than my current job. I'd like a line of work that is a bit more intellectually stimulating than my current job, doesn't require me to fly to random places all that often, and has a larger financial reward/upside.

I got a great LSAT score (172) but due to my horrible GPA (3.1), the highest ranked school I got into was UVA, with no scholarship money. I also got into Georgetown and Cornell, with no scholarship money. At this point, should I consider attending law school, given the enormous opportunity/financial costs that I am looking at and given the current job market for law grads (which I know isn't very good)? I am a pretty analytical person, enjoy reading/writing, and could see myself as a lawyer. However, what do I know, since I've never set foot inside a law school building nor have worked a day inside a law firm. I'd like to get some perspective, feedback, and advice. I would really like to know if attending law school, given my personal background, is a sound career move. If not law school, what else should I be thinking. I know that I don't want to stay in my line of work forever, although I could keep doing it if I really had no other meaningful option.

Thanks in advance.


Can't you just apply to another consulting firm. Consulting is consulting. I didn't do IT, but I worked at a firm you quoted and landed interviews with McKinsey and Monitor after gaining two years experience. I would stay in Consulting. As long as you are good at excel/access, you should be able to get another gig. I'd recommend posting your resume on monster.com and see who contacts you. Law is not a good option.


I could easily get interview opportunities from other consulting firms for IT consulting positions, doing crap like SAP, Oracle, etc. But, I've been finding it near impossible to land any interview for even a boutique, no-name consulting firm for strategy/ business management consulting analyst positions.

I'd be perfectly fine with operational consulting - such as supplied chain, analytics, risk, etc. IT consulting just doesn't appeal to my interest or career aspirations at all, and as a result, I feel like I am in a dead-end situation. If I can't get something I want within next 2-3 years, should I consider going for an MBA then, instead of law school?


Maybe you should create your resume so it doesn't scream IT Consulting....

NYstate
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby NYstate » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:05 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Lost_Dreams wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Lost_Dreams wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster here. I came here to get some career advice from those knowledgeable TLS law school veterans.

Some background info: I currently work at a large consulting firm as an IT consultant. (think IBM, Capgemini, Deloitte, Accenture, PwC, Booze Allen Hamilton, etc) I graduated from college 2 years ago, and have been working at this job since then. I make decent salary (70k), but the four big problems I have with my job are: 1) the work I do is pretty boring, and I don't really enjoy IT-related work all that much (I originally wanted to go into finance/management consulting, but I failed), 2) constant, weekly required travel to bumb-fuck places is wearing me down, 3) I feel that staying in IT consulting pigeonholes me into a very specific line of career and I feel that there are no meaningful exit opportunities outside of IT related jobs, 4) most of stuff I do on daily basis doesn't really require much thinking/ analytical skills, and I sometimes feel brain-dead doing the job.

I've given serious consideration into law school since last year. I graduated from UPenn with degree in Econ. But, while in college, I really screwed up my GPA and got shot down from most of high finance/ management consulting jobs, which would have suit my career interests better than my current job. I'd like a line of work that is a bit more intellectually stimulating than my current job, doesn't require me to fly to random places all that often, and has a larger financial reward/upside.

I got a great LSAT score (172) but due to my horrible GPA (3.1), the highest ranked school I got into was UVA, with no scholarship money. I also got into Georgetown and Cornell, with no scholarship money. At this point, should I consider attending law school, given the enormous opportunity/financial costs that I am looking at and given the current job market for law grads (which I know isn't very good)? I am a pretty analytical person, enjoy reading/writing, and could see myself as a lawyer. However, what do I know, since I've never set foot inside a law school building nor have worked a day inside a law firm. I'd like to get some perspective, feedback, and advice. I would really like to know if attending law school, given my personal background, is a sound career move. If not law school, what else should I be thinking. I know that I don't want to stay in my line of work forever, although I could keep doing it if I really had no other meaningful option.

Thanks in advance.


Can't you just apply to another consulting firm. Consulting is consulting. I didn't do IT, but I worked at a firm you quoted and landed interviews with McKinsey and Monitor after gaining two years experience. I would stay in Consulting. As long as you are good at excel/access, you should be able to get another gig. I'd recommend posting your resume on monster.com and see who contacts you. Law is not a good option.


I could easily get interview opportunities from other consulting firms for IT consulting positions, doing crap like SAP, Oracle, etc. But, I've been finding it near impossible to land any interview for even a boutique, no-name consulting firm for strategy/ business management consulting analyst positions.

I'd be perfectly fine with operational consulting - such as supplied chain, analytics, risk, etc. IT consulting just doesn't appeal to my interest or career aspirations at all, and as a result, I feel like I am in a dead-end situation. If I can't get something I want within next 2-3 years, should I consider going for an MBA then, instead of law school?


Maybe you should create your resume so it doesn't scream IT Consulting....


I don't know what any of those words mean. Don't go to law school if you want to do those things. I'm biased though I think you would be extremely foolish to go to law school. Let's face it - you don't want to be a lawyer and going to law school may not improve your working life in a material way.

Lost_Dreams
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Lost_Dreams » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:02 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Lost_Dreams wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Lost_Dreams wrote:got shot down from most of high finance/ management consulting jobs, which would have suit my career interests better than my current job.

dude, what? if you honestly feel that way, going to law school is retarded. law is even less like high finance/management consulting than what you're doing now. go to a top b-school and get your second bite of the apple.


I considered (and still considering, if I don't end up at law school) going for MBA. However, the main issues I have with MBA is that even if you go to a top-ranked program, the chances of landing an I-banking or a management consulting gig is pretty low. I talked to my friend at U Chicago MBA. He told me that like 30-40% of 2nd year MBA students don't even have a job lined up at this moment.

With law school, I'd think at least most people end up with decent, law-related jobs if you attend a top school. Getting a Biglaw job, I think, is relatively easy compared to getting I-banking or top consulting job. You go to a good law school, get good grades, and just do ok with 20-30 minute conversational interviews. WIth I-banking, you have to network like your life depends on it, even if you go to a top MBA, just to have a shot at a first-round interview. And, landing at management consulting is harder than landing I-banking, so go figure.

After this analysis, and after considering that I don't want to stay in IT consulting field for life, I've been seriously considering law school.


LOL at you thinking getting big law is easy. Bitch, please.


I didn't say easy. Easier than getting I-banking or Strategy Consulting. This is a fact.

Lost_Dreams
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Lost_Dreams » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:04 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Lost_Dreams wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Lost_Dreams wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster here. I came here to get some career advice from those knowledgeable TLS law school veterans.

Some background info: I currently work at a large consulting firm as an IT consultant. (think IBM, Capgemini, Deloitte, Accenture, PwC, Booze Allen Hamilton, etc) I graduated from college 2 years ago, and have been working at this job since then. I make decent salary (70k), but the four big problems I have with my job are: 1) the work I do is pretty boring, and I don't really enjoy IT-related work all that much (I originally wanted to go into finance/management consulting, but I failed), 2) constant, weekly required travel to bumb-fuck places is wearing me down, 3) I feel that staying in IT consulting pigeonholes me into a very specific line of career and I feel that there are no meaningful exit opportunities outside of IT related jobs, 4) most of stuff I do on daily basis doesn't really require much thinking/ analytical skills, and I sometimes feel brain-dead doing the job.

I've given serious consideration into law school since last year. I graduated from UPenn with degree in Econ. But, while in college, I really screwed up my GPA and got shot down from most of high finance/ management consulting jobs, which would have suit my career interests better than my current job. I'd like a line of work that is a bit more intellectually stimulating than my current job, doesn't require me to fly to random places all that often, and has a larger financial reward/upside.

I got a great LSAT score (172) but due to my horrible GPA (3.1), the highest ranked school I got into was UVA, with no scholarship money. I also got into Georgetown and Cornell, with no scholarship money. At this point, should I consider attending law school, given the enormous opportunity/financial costs that I am looking at and given the current job market for law grads (which I know isn't very good)? I am a pretty analytical person, enjoy reading/writing, and could see myself as a lawyer. However, what do I know, since I've never set foot inside a law school building nor have worked a day inside a law firm. I'd like to get some perspective, feedback, and advice. I would really like to know if attending law school, given my personal background, is a sound career move. If not law school, what else should I be thinking. I know that I don't want to stay in my line of work forever, although I could keep doing it if I really had no other meaningful option.

Thanks in advance.


Can't you just apply to another consulting firm. Consulting is consulting. I didn't do IT, but I worked at a firm you quoted and landed interviews with McKinsey and Monitor after gaining two years experience. I would stay in Consulting. As long as you are good at excel/access, you should be able to get another gig. I'd recommend posting your resume on monster.com and see who contacts you. Law is not a good option.


I could easily get interview opportunities from other consulting firms for IT consulting positions, doing crap like SAP, Oracle, etc. But, I've been finding it near impossible to land any interview for even a boutique, no-name consulting firm for strategy/ business management consulting analyst positions.

I'd be perfectly fine with operational consulting - such as supplied chain, analytics, risk, etc. IT consulting just doesn't appeal to my interest or career aspirations at all, and as a result, I feel like I am in a dead-end situation. If I can't get something I want within next 2-3 years, should I consider going for an MBA then, instead of law school?


Maybe you should create your resume so it doesn't scream IT Consulting....


If you craft your resume in such a way that it is highly misleading to potential employers, or that it hides big elements of what your skill sets are, while selling yourself with experience/ skills that you don't have, that is called outright lying. You will get screwed by background check process even if you are lucky to get an offer.

Lost_Dreams
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Re: T14 Law School vs. 70k a year job

Postby Lost_Dreams » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:10 pm

After glancing at the replies in this thread, I am now inclining towards staying on my job, at least for a couple more years and re-evaluate my situation.

I really hope that, as I get more experience in my job and do more networking aggressively, I could make a career change and get the job I would enjoy more without going to a grad school and incurring six figure debt.




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