Thine opinions are requested

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rooneydbc
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Thine opinions are requested

Postby rooneydbc » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:32 pm

As there are only about 20 days left until deposit day I need some opinions to ponder.

I'm choosing between the follow schools and likely want to practice in either NYC (being that I'm from there) or Boston (because I have some strong family ties and really like the city). I'd likely want to do property law (intellectual or otherwise).

Here are the schools + likely 3-year pre-interest COA.

Boston College - ~$123,453
Notre Dame - ~$137, 940
Washington and Lee - ~$79,800
University of Minnesota - ~$101,964
Emory - ~$147,402
William and Mary - $132,300

Still waiting to hear from Boston University and NYU. Got waitlisted at GW and reserved at Cornell. Fordham didn't give me any money, so I don't believe that it is, by any means, worth it. I sent in a scholarship negotiation letter to BC this evening and will send letters to Notre Dame and Fordham soon (I'm a Fordham UG and want to shake my fist at them). After visiting BC, it felt very good and it seems like out of all the schools I got into, they're doing the best job-wise. I'm visiting Notre Dame in the upcoming weeks so we'll see how that is.

I don't have UG loans, so I'm willing to take on some debt, though obviously I don't want to be straddled with a quarter of a million dollars worth of debt.

3.15/166, attending law school in the fall because I'm really passionate about property law, especially intellectual, and bachelor of arts degrees in political science and history are worthless. Would retaking in June help with scholarship negotiation?

What does everyone think?

Thank you all in advance.

rad lulz
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Re: Thine opinions are requested

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:36 pm

Retake bro. Once you add interest, all those are waaaay too expensive for the job prospects (lawschooltransparency.com)

Also why do you say you are passionate about property

Intellectual property is very different from, say, real property bro

rooneydbc
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Re: Thine opinions are requested

Postby rooneydbc » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:57 pm

I've grown to like both property, as in eminent domain, and intellectual property, as in copyright. I'm not sure which one I'd be more invested in once I'm in school, but they're probably my two biggest legal passions. The real reason I'm going to law school is because I'm really into the law, not because I'm thinking I'm getting into a get rich quick scheme. I already hold copyrights and I've been working for lawyers for good while. It's what I want to do.

I'll probably retake if it will help with negotiations. Unfortunately it looks like LST is down at the moment.

If I can push BC or ND up a few grand per year, I'll be happy. I mean, we have to be realistic and say that job markets aren't just shitty for lawyers, they're shitty for everyone. I'm not going to get a good paying job with a BA in political science and history, so law school is probably a sound investment over being, say, a Starbucks barista with too many opinions about Marx and the Irish War of Independence. If I could go back in time and be a physics major, I'd do it, but that's not the case. I have no debt at the moment, so I'm not that debt adverse for law school.

Thanks for the response.

rad lulz
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Re: Thine opinions are requested

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:11 pm

Dude do a MAcc. Become an accountant. Those schools at those prices is a loser's bet bro. Your crappy UG degree is not a reason to go to law school.

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hephaestus
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Re: Thine opinions are requested

Postby hephaestus » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:18 pm

You really can't get into IP without a technical background.
Also these schools are too expensive. Retake or don't go.

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minnbills
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Re: Thine opinions are requested

Postby minnbills » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:34 pm

Your likely starting salary is going to be much lower than the COA for these schools, so you should retake/reapply.

rooneydbc
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Re: Thine opinions are requested

Postby rooneydbc » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:36 pm

This is a serious question: what do the super down on law school people think is the right cost to attend law school? I mean, we all get that a large portion of the TLS population thinks you shouldn't go to law school unless you're getting a full ride from YHS, but for people that actually want to go into the law because that's what they love, but weren't able to get into YHS, or even a T14, what is the deal? Should they just abandon what they are passionate about and wank around a bull shit job they hate for the rest of their lives?

I'm not trying to be a snarky ass hat, I'm dead serious about this question.

Thanks for you responses.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Thine opinions are requested

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:48 pm

rooneydbc wrote:This is a serious question: what do the super down on law school people think is the right cost to attend law school? I mean, we all get that a large portion of the TLS population thinks you shouldn't go to law school unless you're getting a full ride from YHS, but for people that actually want to go into the law because that's what they love, but weren't able to get into YHS, or even a T14, what is the deal? Should they just abandon what they are passionate about and wank around a bull shit job they hate for the rest of their lives?

I'm not trying to be a snarky ass hat, I'm dead serious about this question.

Thanks for you responses.

If you actually "love" the law, the answer to this is whatever cost that you can reasonably expect to repay on the salary you can reasonably expect to make. You may find being a lawyer is worth something in itself and that might make it worth the opportunity cost, the risk of actually making less money as a lawyer, etc. (doubtful, but possible). This might mean it's justified to go to law school even when it might not be financially optimal. But even so you should never borrow more than you can pay back on your most likely salary—which for most people is something like $40,000.

Note though that the vast majority of people have no idea what it means to "love" the law, and will end up "wank[ing] around a bull shit job they hate for the rest of their lives" precisely because they went to law school. Query whether your interest in a legal career is really sufficiently informed to separate you from this very large group of people.

rooneydbc
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Re: Thine opinions are requested

Postby rooneydbc » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:16 pm

Working in a law office for years is really what informed my decision to go. Going to court, doing litigation, etc., for some reason, just really worked for me. I just enjoyed going to work every day, so that's why I've followed this path.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Thine opinions are requested

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:28 pm

rooneydbc wrote:This is a serious question: what do the super down on law school people think is the right cost to attend law school? I mean, we all get that a large portion of the TLS population thinks you shouldn't go to law school unless you're getting a full ride from YHS, but for people that actually want to go into the law because that's what they love, but weren't able to get into YHS, or even a T14, what is the deal? Should they just abandon what they are passionate about and wank around a bull shit job they hate for the rest of their lives?

I'm not trying to be a snarky ass hat, I'm dead serious about this question.

Thanks for you responses.

There are still some great legal jobs around to be had, so law if definitely a great opportunity for some people. The main problem is the cost. If you went to BC, you would have to pay over $10,000 each year just to pay your interest on your loans and that doesn't even get to the principle. At that cost, you need one of the really good jobs to get out of debt and get your net worth back to zero in a reasonable time, and those jobs are hard to get and hard to keep very long.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Thine opinions are requested

Postby bernaldiaz » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:29 pm

rooneydbc wrote:Working in a law office for years is really what informed my decision to go. Going to court, doing litigation, etc., for some reason, just really worked for me. I just enjoyed going to work every day, so that's why I've followed this path.


Based off of your options, I think BC is the best choice if you are from the North East.

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hephaestus
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Re: Thine opinions are requested

Postby hephaestus » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:40 pm

rooneydbc wrote:This is a serious question: what do the super down on law school people think is the right cost to attend law school? I mean, we all get that a large portion of the TLS population thinks you shouldn't go to law school unless you're getting a full ride from YHS, but for people that actually want to go into the law because that's what they love, but weren't able to get into YHS, or even a T14, what is the deal? Should they just abandon what they are passionate about and wank around a bull shit job they hate for the rest of their lives?

I'm not trying to be a snarky ass hat, I'm dead serious about this question.

Thanks for you responses.

I dont think that most people say HYS or don't go. That would be a bit unreasonable. I think people here support sound economic decisions. Taking out so much money for bad job prospects is just a phenomenally bad decision when the debt is not dischargable in bankruptcy. A school like ND or BC would be fine if it was half the price you have them for.
Law school is not a bad choice per se. However, many schools are bad choices unless they are the right price. If you genuinely really like litigation from what you have seen, and just want to be a lawyer, go to a school in the region you want to practice at the lowest possible price so you have the flexibility to work in a setting where you do substantive litigation, (small firm, local gov etc).




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