IU Bloomington, Wake Forest, Fordham, or Seton Hall?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Choose From:

Indiana Bloomington
14
47%
Wake Forest
7
23%
Fordham
8
27%
Seton Hall
1
3%
 
Total votes: 30

EmilyMennel
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: IU Bloomington, Wake Forest, Fordham, or Seton Hall?

Postby EmilyMennel » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:25 am

romothesavior wrote:OP, if you're looking for end game info, LST is hands down the best source there is. Check out their employment scores, big firm scores, and geographic placement. Both schools are decent regionals, terrific is a bit of an overstatement.


Thank you for the info!

rad lulz
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Re: IU Bloomington, Wake Forest, Fordham, or Seton Hall?

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:36 am

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: IU Bloomington, Wake Forest, Fordham, or Seton Hall?

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:42 am

EmilyMennel wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
K Rock wrote:http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=wake

About 48% of the class are reported as unknown or unemployed. Of the remainder of the class, 38% are reported in NYC, 7% in neighboring Virginia, and 5% in New York. I imagine some of those 48% wound up in places like the Midwest, maybe some out to Cali, etc., but the data we have available to us shows that Wake Forest is an extremely regional school. If you go back a year to 2010, over 50% of the class remained in the South Atlantic region, while less than 4% went to the Midwest, less than 2% to the Pacific region (west coast), and 5% went to the West South Central (i.e., Texas and neighboring states).

So, I don't think it's at all unfair to say that Wake Forest is a very regional school, and I don't have to go to school there to make that conclusion. And given that just over 50% of graduates got real legal jobs at all in the c/o 2011, going there without strong ties is going to at least put you behind the 8-ball. I'm not knocking Wake Forest, I have no horse in this race and I have no preconceived opinions of it. But assuming all else is equal, I think IU-B is the better choice since she's from Indy.

This thread is kind of useless though since OP is stubbornly ignoring everybody's requests for COA totals, probably because she's going to be paying a lot and knows what the response would be.


Sorry! Don't mean to be "stubbornly ignoring," just really didn't want it to become about money, and I don't have all of the "endgame" information available to me yet. So yes, I figured that all the debt averse and pessimistic tls members would say don't go. But since I will be attending law school, those sorts of comments are not constructive in my situation. IU B and Wake are both terrific schools and I think at this point I just need to visit, so that's what I'll be doing starting next week at Wake's admitted students day! Can't wait :)



It's an investment. It is naturally about money. If someone asked you to throw down 200K on their sandwich shop you wouldn't do it just because you like roast beef sandwiches.

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romothesavior
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Re: IU Bloomington, Wake Forest, Fordham, or Seton Hall?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:45 am

^ :lol: :lol: :lol:

placencia
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:54 am

Re: IU Bloomington, Wake Forest, Fordham, or Seton Hall?

Postby placencia » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:16 pm

I am not going to spend my time dealing with all of the inaccuracies I see here. If anyone wants an accurate account of things at Wake, I would be happy to speak with you.

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romothesavior
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Re: IU Bloomington, Wake Forest, Fordham, or Seton Hall?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:29 pm

placencia wrote:I am not going to spend my time dealing with all of the inaccuracies I see here. If anyone wants an accurate account of things at Wake, I would be happy to speak with you.

Look man, nobody is attacking your school, and nobody is even being disrespectful towards you or your school. No need to get hostile or defensive. But statistics are statistics, and they make it clear that Wake Forest doesn't have great job placement, and it doesn't have much national portability. The fact that you want to take this to PM instead of speaking about it openly in the forum is kind of telling.

placencia
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:54 am

Re: IU Bloomington, Wake Forest, Fordham, or Seton Hall?

Postby placencia » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:33 pm

I wasn't being hostile and defensive. However, if it came off that way, then maybe I can explain more clearly.

I meant exactly what I said, nothing more and nothing less. For a variety of reasons, I believe many of these statements are inaccurate. Not just the placement perceptions you have stated, but the concepts about COA and what makes a JD valuable. The problem is that my responses to those statements are in depth.

I said people can contact me because I am more than willing to talk at great length to anyone who that has an actual interest in Wake Forest about the job prospects, the pros and cons, where we place, and everything else. I don't ever want to "sell" someone on Wake Forest. My perspective is that every person should make the decision that's right for them. I would never want someone coming to Wake Forest and later think they had been sold a false bill of goods.

I didn't want to get involved in a big back and forth about larger topics when my words are wasted on most - not because it's an argument or people "don't get it" or any other reason like that - I just have no desire to convince anyone of anything, and most of the people opining have no interest one way or the other in Wake. I'm happy to answer any questions anyone might have who wants information, but I'm not out to convert anyone or change anyone's mind. I can't speak to Indiana, Fordham, or Seton Hall, and it would be inappropriate for me to do so. Not because I don't know the numbers posted online, but because many law school employment numbers in general these days are not comparable. A few schools have blatantly lied, others hire people to be able to report them as employed, and others adjust their reporting measures. I don't know how other schools report their numbers, I only know about us and what those numbers mean, and what those numbers don't mean. We have posted some of our data online if anyone would like to see, although even that is an incomplete picture.
http://career.law.wfu.edu/stats/

I have talked with plenty of prospective students and I am always direct and blunt about everything, and I have had many discussions with Career Services because I want to make sure that I can stand behind everything I say and I actually know all the details about our placement and numbers. I only know the facts as they pertain to Wake. I know who has gone where, and where we place, and where we don't. And I feel comfortable saying that Wake places very well when students seek work in other locations. I find it interesting that someone can claim Wake's degree isn't portable when I was the one who was interviewing with that on my resume, as were my classmates. Two of the job offers I got outside the state were specifically BECAUSE I went to Wake. I mean, I would think that my perspective would have a little bit more weight, homerism and personal bias aside.

The number one reason Wake doesn't place large numbers of people in D.C., NYC, or L.A. is because most people who come here don't want to go there, they want to stay in and around North Carolina. I only know one person who came here saying he only wanted to practice in New York City...and that's where he's going. I came here planning to practice in North Carolina, but changed my mind for a variety of reasons, otherwise I definitely would have stayed.

(This is why I said people could just contact me...I wanted to avoid a big long diatribe like I just wrote.)

EmilyMennel
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: IU Bloomington, Wake Forest, Fordham, or Seton Hall?

Postby EmilyMennel » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:49 pm

placencia wrote:I wasn't being hostile and defensive. However, if it came off that way, then maybe I can explain more clearly.

I meant exactly what I said, nothing more and nothing less. For a variety of reasons, I believe many of these statements are inaccurate. Not just the placement perceptions you have stated, but the concepts about COA and what makes a JD valuable. The problem is that my responses to those statements are in depth.

I said people can contact me because I am more than willing to talk at great length to anyone who that has an actual interest in Wake Forest about the job prospects, the pros and cons, where we place, and everything else. I don't ever want to "sell" someone on Wake Forest. My perspective is that every person should make the decision that's right for them. I would never want someone coming to Wake Forest and later think they had been sold a false bill of goods.

I didn't want to get involved in a big back and forth about larger topics when my words are wasted on most - not because it's an argument or people "don't get it" or any other reason like that - I just have no desire to convince anyone of anything, and most of the people opining have no interest one way or the other in Wake. I'm happy to answer any questions anyone might have who wants information, but I'm not out to convert anyone or change anyone's mind. I can't speak to Indiana, Fordham, or Seton Hall, and it would be inappropriate for me to do so. Not because I don't know the numbers posted online, but because many law school employment numbers in general these days are not comparable. A few schools have blatantly lied, others hire people to be able to report them as employed, and others adjust their reporting measures. I don't know how other schools report their numbers, I only know about us and what those numbers mean, and what those numbers don't mean. We have posted some of our data online if anyone would like to see, although even that is an incomplete picture.
http://career.law.wfu.edu/stats/

I have talked with plenty of prospective students and I am always direct and blunt about everything, and I have had many discussions with Career Services because I want to make sure that I can stand behind everything I say and I actually know all the details about our placement and numbers. I only know the facts as they pertain to Wake. I know who has gone where, and where we place, and where we don't. And I feel comfortable saying that Wake places very well when students seek work in other locations. I find it interesting that someone can claim Wake's degree isn't portable when I was the one who was interviewing with that on my resume, as were my classmates. Two of the job offers I got outside the state were specifically BECAUSE I went to Wake. I mean, I would think that my perspective would have a little bit more weight, homerism and personal bias aside.

The number one reason Wake doesn't place large numbers of people in D.C., NYC, or L.A. is because most people who come here don't want to go there, they want to stay in and around North Carolina. I only know one person who came here saying he only wanted to practice in New York City...and that's where he's going. I came here planning to practice in North Carolina, but changed my mind for a variety of reasons, otherwise I definitely would have stayed.

(This is why I said people could just contact me...I wanted to avoid a big long diatribe like I just wrote.)


I enjoyed your diatribe! I appreciate that you're not out to "sell" anyone and would love more information from you!

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YankeesFan
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: IU Bloomington, Wake Forest, Fordham, or Seton Hall?

Postby YankeesFan » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:32 pm

Yea I am going to second what placencia said. I came to Wake wanting to practice in DC or NY and got oppotunities to both, but turned them down to stay in NC. If your the top half of your class and have ties elsewhere you will likely find work back home. Wake is a lot more portable then most people think. In fact, there is a formula on the TLS boards somewhere about the portability of degrees and Wake in comparison to peer schools placed student out of state (probably because more came from in state). If anyone wants to know more about Wake from someone who goes, feel free to PM as well. I couldn't care less if you come here so I am not going to lie and have already told people the dangers of going to Wake in specific circumstances.

Wakelaw15
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:13 pm

Re: IU Bloomington, Wake Forest, Fordham, or Seton Hall?

Postby Wakelaw15 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:20 pm

romothesavior wrote:
K Rock wrote:http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=wake

About 48% of the class are reported as unknown or unemployed. Of the remainder of the class, 38% are reported in NYC, 7% in neighboring Virginia, and 5% in New York. I imagine some of those 48% wound up in places like the Midwest, maybe some out to Cali, etc., but the data we have available to us shows that Wake Forest is an extremely regional school. If you go back a year to 2010, over 50% of the class remained in the South Atlantic region, while less than 4% went to the Midwest, less than 2% to the Pacific region (west coast), and 5% went to the West South Central (i.e., Texas and neighboring states).

So, I don't think it's at all unfair to say that Wake Forest is a very regional school, and I don't have to go to school there to make that conclusion. And given that just over 50% of graduates got real legal jobs at all in the c/o 2011, going there without strong ties is going to at least put you behind the 8-ball. I'm not knocking Wake Forest, I have no horse in this race and I have no preconceived opinions of it. But assuming all else is equal, I think IU-B is the better choice since she's from Indy.

This thread is kind of useless though since OP is stubbornly ignoring everybody's requests for COA totals, probably because she's going to be paying a lot and knows what the response would be.


OP, new #s for Wake are available as of today. http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=wake
Most schools have improving numbers (the economy is picking up). Wake's are significantly improved.




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