Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Duke ($67k) or Mich ($67k) Northwestern ($90k)

Duke
12
21%
Mich
15
26%
Northwestern
30
53%
 
Total votes: 57

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Samara
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby Samara » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:39 pm

bowser wrote:COA might end up being similar though, since NU's tuition is significantly more expensive, and COL is probably like 5K a year higher maybe?

COL isn't that bad if you don't live in Streetervile. Go to NU.

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megagnarley
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby megagnarley » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:43 pm

BigZuck wrote:I would take NU over D and M for CA big law. Or, big law period.


NU over M for Ca biglaw?

Would be interested to know why.

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megagnarley
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby megagnarley » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:46 pm

bowser wrote:COA might end up being similar though, since NU's tuition is significantly more expensive, and COL is probably like 5K a year higher maybe?


Looks like tuition is $51k (Mich) vs. ($53k) NU. Am I missing something? (Real question)

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Samara
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby Samara » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:46 pm

megagnarley wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I would take NU over D and M for CA big law. Or, big law period.


NU over M for Ca biglaw?

Would be interested to know why.

NU places a lot of students into CA biglaw. We also have a large CA population, so maybe the ratio is the same, but stronger placement overall and (probably) more CA firms looking at NU tips the scales IMO.

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jvincent11
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby jvincent11 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:49 pm

I was told by a V10 associate in NYC that T7-14 are looked at as exactly the same, so I'm gonna have to choose NU

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megagnarley
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby megagnarley » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:49 pm

Samara wrote:
megagnarley wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I would take NU over D and M for CA big law. Or, big law period.


NU over M for Ca biglaw?

Would be interested to know why.

NU places a lot of students into CA biglaw. We also have a large CA population, so maybe the ratio is the same, but stronger placement overall and (probably) more CA firms looking at NU tips the scales IMO.


Good to know. I wish there was some data aggregating number of firms from specific states at specific school's OCI's.

Alas...

curious66
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby curious66 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:52 pm

Michigan is still giving you 66.7K, right? + the Chicago vs. Ann Arbor COA differential + the fact you would rather not stay in a big city.. then, I think Michigan wins here.
Unless you don't like the feel for the school or something. In general, all three are great options and you have a decent amount of $ at all of them.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby Law Sauce » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:59 pm

Really a wash, go wherever you would like to, however I think Michigan has (at least historically) the biggest name and that likely means the biggest CA network, plus a very strong LRAP if you need or decide you want it. I think Michigan still it has the edge here over NU or Duke. Duke's small class size helps inflate its Biglaw numbers but probably is actually a disadvantage here since you are not hoping to go to one of its most common markets.

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megagnarley
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby megagnarley » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:06 pm

Well done. Lots of good insight here, chaps.

Perhaps Mich/Duke will bump their offers, but if not, lots of good angles to consider.

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megagnarley
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby megagnarley » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:07 pm

Law Sauce wrote:Really a wash, go wherever you would like to, however I think Michigan has (at least historically) the biggest name and that likely means the biggest CA network, plus a very strong LRAP if you need or decide you want it. I think Michigan still it has the edge here over NU or Duke. Duke's small class size helps inflate its Biglaw numbers but probably is actually a disadvantage here since you are not hoping to go to one of its most common markets.


Any chance you'd expand on Duke's class size/common markets hurting ability to get back to CA?

BigZuck
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:41 pm

megagnarley wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:Really a wash, go wherever you would like to, however I think Michigan has (at least historically) the biggest name and that likely means the biggest CA network, plus a very strong LRAP if you need or decide you want it. I think Michigan still it has the edge here over NU or Duke. Duke's small class size helps inflate its Biglaw numbers but probably is actually a disadvantage here since you are not hoping to go to one of its most common markets.


Any chance you'd expand on Duke's class size/common markets hurting ability to get back to CA?


Yeah I don't get it. Lots of alumni in CA is good for Michigan but the fact that a decent percentage of Duke grads go to CA is a disadvantage for Duke?

The fact of the matter is that Michigan has been lagging behind Duke and NU for a couple of years now when it comes to big law+clerkship numbers. I think Michigan is easily the worst choice of the 3 at this point.

matrim
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby matrim » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:30 pm

I would visit the schools...worth the investment.

gaucholaw
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby gaucholaw » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:17 am

K, so I've mentioned this in a different thread , and granted (it sounds prestige-whorish)..... but the MVP(B) is it's own bracket.... UMich and Duke are NOT peer schools anymore than Penn is with NYU... with that said, I'll concede that employment prospects are close enough that it is a personal decision... it just annoys me when people call all of the schools between 7-14 peers... like someone saying the other day that Cornell is a peer with UVA

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jvincent11
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby jvincent11 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:31 am

gaucholaw wrote:K, so I've mentioned this in a different thread , and granted (it sounds prestige-whorish)..... but the MVP(B) is it's own bracket.... UMich and Duke are NOT peer schools anymore than Penn is with NYU... with that said, I'll concede that employment prospects are close enough that it is a personal decision... it just annoys me when people call all of the schools between 7-14 peers... like someone saying the other day that Cornell is a peer with UVA


FWIW, the other day an associate at a V10 in NYC told me that, at least for NYC biglaw, firms view 7-14 as equal.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby rickgrimes69 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:41 am

gaucholaw wrote:K, so I've mentioned this in a different thread , and granted (it sounds prestige-whorish)..... but the MVP(B) is it's own bracket.... UMich and Duke are NOT peer schools anymore than Penn is with NYU... with that said, I'll concede that employment prospects are close enough that it is a personal decision... it just annoys me when people call all of the schools between 7-14 peers... like someone saying the other day that Cornell is a peer with UVA


This post is funny because (1) you think UMich > Duke and (2) you think that Mich / UVA / Berk = Penn.

Just in case you haven't noticed the employment stats recently, Duke has matched or beaten MVB in placement over the past few years, and Penn has blown nearly the entire T14 out of the water.

Also, the sub-brackets (T6, T10, etc) don't exist outside TLS. Outside of the school's home market, the T13 south of HYS are all considered peer schools.

gaucholaw
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby gaucholaw » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:53 am

Penn has only "blown the others out of the water" b/c of its proximity to NYC/ self-selecting group for BigLaw..... UVA is FAR more interested as a culture in PI... as has recently been revealed by the "school-funded jobs" ie kids genuinely want to do PI and the school is willing to help them out - anyways, there's a reason why Penn isn't ranked above UVA
and nice Gtown hating with T-13 lol

curious66
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby curious66 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:58 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:
gaucholaw wrote:K, so I've mentioned this in a different thread , and granted (it sounds prestige-whorish)..... but the MVP(B) is it's own bracket.... UMich and Duke are NOT peer schools anymore than Penn is with NYU... with that said, I'll concede that employment prospects are close enough that it is a personal decision... it just annoys me when people call all of the schools between 7-14 peers... like someone saying the other day that Cornell is a peer with UVA


This post is funny because (1) you think UMich > Duke and (2) you think that Mich / UVA / Berk = Penn.
Just in case you haven't noticed the employment stats recently, Duke has matched or beaten MVB in placement over the past few years, and Penn has blown nearly the entire T14 out of the water.
Also, the sub-brackets (T6, T10, etc) don't exist outside TLS. Outside of the school's home market, the T13 south of HYS are all considered peer schools.


There are plenty of reasons to pick one school over the other. What is missing in your analysis is the view on clerkships.. Michigan has placed more supreme court clerkships (29ish I think) vs. single digits others who are in the T14. Depending on what someone wants to get out of law school, Michigan may be far more appealing than others (this logic applies the other way as well).

BigZuck
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:00 am

gaucholaw wrote:K, so I've mentioned this in a different thread , and granted (it sounds prestige-whorish)..... but the MVP(B) is it's own bracket.... UMich and Duke are NOT peer schools anymore than Penn is with NYU... with that said, I'll concede that employment prospects are close enough that it is a personal decision... it just annoys me when people call all of the schools between 7-14 peers... like someone saying the other day that Cornell is a peer with UVA


Your notion of prestige is irrelevant to us bro, all we want are jobs that can pay off our debt.

And Duke has done a better job of that than Michigan. Penn has done a better job of that than almost anyone, certainly better than every school ranked 7 or below.

And Georgetown is more comparable to Vanderbilt than Cornell.

BigZuck
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:01 am

curious66 wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
gaucholaw wrote:K, so I've mentioned this in a different thread , and granted (it sounds prestige-whorish)..... but the MVP(B) is it's own bracket.... UMich and Duke are NOT peer schools anymore than Penn is with NYU... with that said, I'll concede that employment prospects are close enough that it is a personal decision... it just annoys me when people call all of the schools between 7-14 peers... like someone saying the other day that Cornell is a peer with UVA


This post is funny because (1) you think UMich > Duke and (2) you think that Mich / UVA / Berk = Penn.
Just in case you haven't noticed the employment stats recently, Duke has matched or beaten MVB in placement over the past few years, and Penn has blown nearly the entire T14 out of the water.
Also, the sub-brackets (T6, T10, etc) don't exist outside TLS. Outside of the school's home market, the T13 south of HYS are all considered peer schools.


There are plenty of reasons to pick one school over the other. What is missing in your analysis is the view on clerkships.. Michigan has placed more supreme court clerkships (29ish I think) vs. single digits others who are in the T14. Depending on what someone wants to get out of law school, Michigan may be far more appealing than others (this logic applies the other way as well).


Why would anyone choose a law school based on Supreme Court Clerkships? Realistically you can't ever think you're going to sniff one of those no matter where you go to school.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby rickgrimes69 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:17 am

BigZuck wrote:
gaucholaw wrote:K, so I've mentioned this in a different thread , and granted (it sounds prestige-whorish)..... but the MVP(B) is it's own bracket.... UMich and Duke are NOT peer schools anymore than Penn is with NYU... with that said, I'll concede that employment prospects are close enough that it is a personal decision... it just annoys me when people call all of the schools between 7-14 peers... like someone saying the other day that Cornell is a peer with UVA


Your notion of prestige is irrelevant to us bro, all we want are jobs that can pay off our debt.

And Duke has done a better job of that than Michigan. Penn has done a better job of that than almost anyone, certainly better than every school ranked 7 or below.

And Georgetown is more comparable to Vanderbilt than Cornell.


This.

BigZuck wrote:Why would anyone choose a law school based on Supreme Court Clerkships? Realistically you can't ever think you're going to sniff one of those no matter where you go to school.


Also this.

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TexasAggie13
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby TexasAggie13 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:42 am

Why is NU not getting more love? OP said he wants BigLaw and NU's BigLaw numbers dominate both Duke's and Michigan's.

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jvincent11
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby jvincent11 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:43 am

TexasAggie13 wrote:Why is NU not getting more love? OP said he wants BigLaw and NU's BigLaw numbers dominate both Duke's and Michigan's.


How so?

BigZuck
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:52 am

jvincent11 wrote:
TexasAggie13 wrote:Why is NU not getting more love? OP said he wants BigLaw and NU's BigLaw numbers dominate both Duke's and Michigan's.


How so?


Curious as well. Last year NU clerkship+big law was 61.3% versus Duke at 56%. Duke is now at 64% and we don't know what NU is at. Looks pretty close to me.

I did, however, say the OP should choose NU when he told us his offer.

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TexasAggie13
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby TexasAggie13 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:56 am

Alright "dominate" was perhaps too strong of a word, but NU does have the strongest BigLaw numbers based on last years data. (NU hasn't released 2012 yet.)

I just read back a bit though and saw that OP said he is against life in a big city so I can now see why NU isn't being talked about as much.

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megagnarley
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Re: Duke vs. Mich at equal $$

Postby megagnarley » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:24 pm

TexasAggie13 wrote:
I just read back a bit though and saw that OP said he is against life in a big city so I can now see why NU isn't being talked about as much.


Basically this.

Although, also because of the west coast bias. It seems people feel Mich really does have a larger alumni base in LA which has a non-negligible impact on making it back out west.

How much this really matters when it comes to the brass tacks of hiring, I have absolutely no idea outside of anecdotes.




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