Need Serious Advice

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ehumanzada
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Re: Need Serious Advice

Postby ehumanzada » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:14 pm

Keep working hard on your LSAT. And please do yourself a favor and don't limit yourself on what you will be able to achieve. I was a big idiot in my undergrad and had a gpa lower than yours. When i took a diagnostic i tested at 154. And with hard work i was able to get 167 on my test and i am accepted with scholarships at two top 20 schools. Dont get too down on yourself and study hard and you will be able to make your dream come true!

Myself
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Postby Myself » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:21 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Need Serious Advice

Postby somewhatwayward » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:27 pm

tuffyjohnson wrote:Since I'm interested in seeing my small children more than once in a month's span, BigLaw can suck a huge one. I live in Minneapolis; prefer to stay there and I have a genuine interest in practicing either family law, criminal defense, or municipal/county/state law. I'm also interested in working as legal council for smallish sized companies or possibly even doing estate planning.


This is a wide range of things you are interested in....what is it in particular that you think law would help you do that you cannot do now or with a shorter cheaper degree? Because the legal market is so terrible (it is pretty pitiful that UMN is the only MN school that places more than half of its class into FT/LT legal jobs), you really need a have a specific reason you are going to law school and goal for a job afterward (knowing at the same time that you may have to take something totally unrelated in the end). people who just enroll because they want to help people are in trouble.

I would recommend continuing to study for the LSAT (although head over to the LSAT Prep forum bc there is a lot of helpful advice there - BTW you keep talking about LG; how are you doing on the other sections? LR is also improvable and it is half the test) but at the same time think about what you really want out of law school and if there is a different way to pursue it that would be less risky.

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tuffyjohnson
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Re: Need Serious Advice

Postby tuffyjohnson » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:42 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:
tuffyjohnson wrote:Since I'm interested in seeing my small children more than once in a month's span, BigLaw can suck a huge one. I live in Minneapolis; prefer to stay there and I have a genuine interest in practicing either family law, criminal defense, or municipal/county/state law. I'm also interested in working as legal council for smallish sized companies or possibly even doing estate planning.


This is a wide range of things you are interested in....what is it in particular that you think law would help you do that you cannot do now or with a shorter cheaper degree? Because the legal market is so terrible (it is pretty pitiful that UMN is the only MN school that places more than half of its class into FT/LT legal jobs), you really need a have a specific reason you are going to law school and goal for a job afterward (knowing at the same time that you may have to take something totally unrelated in the end). people who just enroll because they want to help people are in trouble.

I would recommend continuing to study for the LSAT (although head over to the LSAT Prep forum bc there is a lot of helpful advice there - BTW you keep talking about LG; how are you doing on the other sections? LR is also improvable and it is half the test) but at the same time think about what you really want out of law school and if there is a different way to pursue it that would be less risky.


I am slightly better on the other sections. RC is my best and LG is my glaring weakness.

As for specific reasons for law school: A) I think I will love the intellectual challenge of the school and the work B) I think I will like the people C) I want to practice law in a firm or gov't agency or small company. Just not a big ass firm for obvious reasons that they suck the life out of you. D) It's where I can picture myself E) It's the type of advice I'd like to be giving people and in the type of places and situations I see myself doing so. F) I am really interested in family law, divorce situations. Yes, I want to help people. Sorry to be cliched about it.

tino1317
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Re: Need Serious Advice

Postby tino1317 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:28 pm

Bronck wrote:Obviously give it a good faith effort. But, because your GPA is so low, if you can't get a high LSAT score, you're going to have to face the fact that you're not going to become a lawyer because your options will be horrible.


This is such terrible advice and really sums up what TLS is all about. OP, going to a TTT/TTTT does not mean you cant be a lawyer. If law is your passion, follow it. See what regional options you have and plan accordingly. You may struggle to find work after graduation and probably won't be making good money at first, but you can be a lawyer.

Obviously try to minimize debt as much as possible through savings, scholarships, and grants. I have a friend who is graduating from a TTTT this year who has a six figure job lined up at graduation. She will finish in the top 15% or so. I have a few other friends at a TTT who are at median and have found summer jobs. It is no doubt harder to find work coming from a TTT/TTTT but note that many smaller regional markets higher almost exclusively from TTT/TTTT's.

My advice to you would be, study your ass off for the LSAT. Don't limit yourself by saying you don't think you can score higher than 150's. Shoot for 180. If you do end up getting high 150's after putting forth a real effort and end up at a TTT/TTTT, use these forums to develop a strategy for success in 1L. There are so many great guides on TLS detailing how others have found great success during 1L, use them and develop a plan that works for you. Maybe you do well enough and are able to transfer to a stronger school. Even if you don't knock 1L out of the park, start networking early. Someone wrote a 1L guide who went to a school ranked in the 30/40 range and had a high 150's LSAT and low 3.0's GPA. He/she ended up finishing first in his/her class and transferred to HYS.

Honestly, for the kind of work you want to do you do not need a degree from a prestigious school. I would go to the cheapest regional school you can get into and participate in whatever clinics you can so that you can get some practical experience. Learning how to hustle is also crucial. I work in a smaller regional market for a small firm and can give you plenty of insight into how things work in the city I work in.

Keep in mind that while TLS places too much emphasis on t-14->biglaw or bust, this site does give good advice when it comes to debt. So not to beat a dead horse, but minimizing debt should be your top priority when considering schools that won't be getting you a high paying job.

Note that I still don't know what school I will attend next fall and while I am not looking at TTT/TTTT's, I have a number of friends and mutual friends who have graduated from said schools and are doing fine. I can only think of one who doesn't have a legal jerb and that is due to personal reasons. Feel free to PM me for more details regarding my location or anything else.

p.s. I wrote this while eating the best grilled cheese ever so it is probably incoherent and lacking structure.

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: Need Serious Advice

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:29 pm

tino1317 wrote:
Bronck wrote:Obviously give it a good faith effort. But, because your GPA is so low, if you can't get a high LSAT score, you're going to have to face the fact that you're not going to become a lawyer because your options will be horrible.


This is such terrible advice and really sums up what TLS is all about. OP, going to a TTT/TTTT does not mean you cant be a lawyer. If law is your passion, follow it. See what regional options you have and plan accordingly. You may struggle to find work after graduation and probably won't be making good money at first, but you can be a lawyer.

Obviously try to minimize debt as much as possible through savings, scholarships, and grants. I have a friend who is graduating from a TTTT this year who has a six figure job lined up at graduation. She will finish in the top 15% or so. I have a few other friends at a TTT who are at median and have found summer jobs. It is no doubt harder to find work coming from a TTT/TTTT but note that many smaller regional markets higher almost exclusively from TTT/TTTT's.


My advice to you would be, study your ass off for the LSAT. Don't limit yourself by saying you don't think you can score higher than 150's. Shoot for 180. If you do end up getting high 150's after putting forth a real effort and end up at a TTT/TTTT, use these forums to develop a strategy for success in 1L. There are so many great guides on TLS detailing how others have found great success during 1L, use them and develop a plan that works for you. Maybe you do well enough and are able to transfer to a stronger school. Even if you don't knock 1L out of the park, start networking early. Someone wrote a 1L guide who went to a school ranked in the 30/40 range and had a high 150's LSAT and low 3.0's GPA. He/she ended up finishing first in his/her class and transferred to HYS.

Honestly, for the kind of work you want to do you do not need a degree from a prestigious school. I would go to the cheapest regional school you can get into and participate in whatever clinics you can so that you can get some practical experience. Learning how to hustle is also crucial. I work in a smaller regional market for a small firm and can give you plenty of insight into how things work in the city I work in.

Keep in mind that while TLS places too much emphasis on t-14->biglaw or bust, this site does give good advice when it comes to debt. So not to beat a dead horse, but
minimizing debt should be your top priority when considering schools that won't be getting you a high paying job.

Note that I still don't know what school I will attend next fall and while I am not looking at TTT/TTTT's, I have a number of friends and mutual friends who have graduated from said schools and are doing fine. I can only think of one who doesn't have a legal jerb and that is due to personal reasons. Feel free to PM me for more details regarding my location or anything else.

p.s. I wrote this while eating the best grilled cheese ever so it is probably incoherent and lacking structure.

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pruufreadr
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Re: Need Serious Advice

Postby pruufreadr » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:42 pm

tuffyjohnson wrote:North Dakota Law (10K tuition) is the only thing that makes sense to me. They have reciprocity with MN and the average debt after law school is less than 60K. A 160 could get scholarships too...


UND doesn't have a lot of funding for their law school. This is the first year they were able to offer scholarships to first years at all, but their fundraising only amounted to a few scholarships for books--even though they were trying for more.

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Ramius
Posts: 2005
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:39 am

Re: Need Serious Advice

Postby Ramius » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:45 pm

tino1317 wrote:
Bronck wrote:Obviously give it a good faith effort. But, because your GPA is so low, if you can't get a high LSAT score, you're going to have to face the fact that you're not going to become a lawyer because your options will be horrible.


This is such terrible advice and really sums up what TLS is all about. OP, going to a TTT/TTTT does not mean you cant be a lawyer. If law is your passion, follow it. See what regional options you have and plan accordingly. You may struggle to find work after graduation and probably won't be making good money at first, but you can be a lawyer.

Obviously try to minimize debt as much as possible through savings, scholarships, and grants. I have a friend who is graduating from a TTTT this year who has a six figure job lined up at graduation. She will finish in the top 15% or so. I have a few other friends at a TTT who are at median and have found summer jobs. It is no doubt harder to find work coming from a TTT/TTTT but note that many smaller regional markets higher almost exclusively from TTT/TTTT's.

My advice to you would be, study your ass off for the LSAT. Don't limit yourself by saying you don't think you can score higher than 150's. Shoot for 180. If you do end up getting high 150's after putting forth a real effort and end up at a TTT/TTTT, use these forums to develop a strategy for success in 1L. There are so many great guides on TLS detailing how others have found great success during 1L, use them and develop a plan that works for you. Maybe you do well enough and are able to transfer to a stronger school. Even if you don't knock 1L out of the park, start networking early. Someone wrote a 1L guide who went to a school ranked in the 30/40 range and had a high 150's LSAT and low 3.0's GPA. He/she ended up finishing first in his/her class and transferred to HYS.

Honestly, for the kind of work you want to do you do not need a degree from a prestigious school. I would go to the cheapest regional school you can get into and participate in whatever clinics you can so that you can get some practical experience. Learning how to hustle is also crucial. I work in a smaller regional market for a small firm and can give you plenty of insight into how things work in the city I work in.

Keep in mind that while TLS places too much emphasis on t-14->biglaw or bust, this site does give good advice when it comes to debt. So not to beat a dead horse, but minimizing debt should be your top priority when considering schools that won't be getting you a high paying job.

Note that I still don't know what school I will attend next fall and while I am not looking at TTT/TTTT's, I have a number of friends and mutual friends who have graduated from said schools and are doing fine. I can only think of one who doesn't have a legal jerb and that is due to personal reasons. Feel free to PM me for more details regarding my location or anything else.

p.s. I wrote this while eating the best grilled cheese ever so it is probably incoherent and lacking structure.


Was the cheese laced with LSD? Seriously, regardless of structure, this is a lot of bad advice. Don't be drawn in based on anecdotal evidence of a few lucky souls who did well in law school. Let the numbers speak for themselves regarding employment outcomes and follow those. Never assume you're special and that you can out-hustle everyone at your school. Regardless of path, everyone ended up at the same place you are now in law school, so assume they have just as much ability to place well. Hence, assume median.

OP, while you have altruistic goals for why you want to go to law school, just remember what kind of investment we are talking about, so take the decision immensely serious. Look at how much debt you'll take on, including COL, tuition hikes and interest on your loans and think about your family. Unless your spouse can foot the bills and help pay for everything if law school doesn't work out, don't take the risk.

Besides, you talk about divorce situations and family law as something you're focused on, so why not find an alternate field that doesn't require potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars investment? I haven't done the research, so I apologize if I'm way off here, but I'm willing to bet you could help in domestic adjudication in some capacity without going to law school.

Debt is very real, and so are your families' many needs. Just keep in mind that law school debt is serious and it could potentially ruin your families' ability to lead a comfortable life for many, many years. I'M NOT telling you not to go, but please do a complete evaluation of whether it's worth it.

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tuffyjohnson
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Re: Need Serious Advice

Postby tuffyjohnson » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:29 am

A lot of people here indicate that they would not go to TTT for free. They likely are seeking biglaw and clerkships. While I think this site is phenomenal and filled with great people, I do think this reasoning overstates the point. And maybe that's the point, to really warn people, but I am willing to pay something for a TTT, just not $35,000. What is a TTT/TTTT education actually worth? For me that's somewhere around 10-12k in tuition. So that means I need a 60% scholarship to one of the local schools or to head to N/S Dakota.

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Ruxin1
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Re: Need Serious Advice

Postby Ruxin1 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:39 am

tuffyjohnson wrote:A lot of people here indicate that they would not go to TTT for free. They likely are seeking biglaw and clerkships. While I think this site is phenomenal and filled with great people, I do think this reasoning overstates the point. And maybe that's the point, to really warn people, but I am willing to pay something for a TTT, just not $35,000. What is a TTT/TTTT education actually worth? For me that's somewhere around 10-12k in tuition. So that means I need a 60% scholarship to one of the local schools or to head to N/S Dakota.


Plus living expenses plus interest plus lost wages.

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hephaestus
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Re: Need Serious Advice

Postby hephaestus » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:41 am

tuffyjohnson wrote:A lot of people here indicate that they would not go to TTT for free. They likely are seeking biglaw and clerkships. While I think this site is phenomenal and filled with great people, I do think this reasoning overstates the point. And maybe that's the point, to really warn people, but I am willing to pay something for a TTT, just not $35,000. What is a TTT/TTTT education actually worth? For me that's somewhere around 10-12k in tuition. So that means I need a 60% scholarship to one of the local schools or to head to N/S Dakota.

The general rule is that you should not borrow more than you are likely to make your first year. The problem is that these schools don't lend you a good chance at any sort of permenant legal employment. This makes the average amount you should reasonably borrow very small.
So, for example, if the average salary (the true one, not the fake USNWR number) is 45k, the amount you borrow after interest and tuition increases should only be 45k.




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