Help me choose! (Penn, Michigan, Duke, Cornell, UCLA, Texas) Forum

[bailey8078]

I think I have my list narrowed down to 2 schools. Penn and Michigan. I really would like to work in Government, but I understand the hiring is limited and easier after big law.

I am from the Boston area and would love to make it back there eventually if I was working in a firm. I have no savings and a little bit of debt from undergrad ($25k). I have a 3.71 171 on second take. Currently live in Philadelphia.

Penn has given me 42k in need based aid.

Michigan has given me 67,500 in merit.

I'm negotiating with both, but lets assume its close to settled.

Would I be crazy to pick Michigan in this situation? I really liked the campus, the feeling I got from the students and faculty. I liked Penn's campus, the students were nice, but dead-set on big-law. Any thoughts on my situation are appreciated.

Should this scholarship from Cornell change my thinking?

(Other options: Duke w/ $75k, Cornell w/ $35k, UCLA with $75 merit/ 8k need, Texas w/ instate +54k)

[rad lulz]

Please calculate total cost of attendance and add interest.

[WahooLaw24]

Please calculate total cost of attendance and add interest.

Need this for sure, but in general- any specific reason you eliminated Duke? That's a nice offer as well.

[bailey8078]

Yeah, sorry. COA with interest based on the Georgetown calculator is in the poll.

I'm visiting Duke in April. But I'm 3 years out of school and not preppy enough to feel comfortable at Duke, based on the people I know that go there. Also, when I told any of the Michigan faculty where I was looking the told me to look at Penn and weren't as impressed by Duke. I think they were talking about faculty contribution to scholarship, so I'm not sure why that should make a difference. But it was never a top contender for me.

[LittleTree]

Not meaning to hijack, but you said you were negotiating with Michigan. Is that possible? I was under the impression they didn't raise merit awards.

[bailey8078]

Not meaning to hijack, but you said you were negotiating with Michigan. Is that possible? I was under the impression they didn't raise merit awards.

A person that I emailed said they'd raise my scholarship once, so I should wait until I have all my offers. Whether this has been true in the past or not I don't know. I think the new dean will be making moves like this and be heavily focused on improving LRAP. Thats what he said at ASW.

[LittleTree]

Not meaning to hijack, but you said you were negotiating with Michigan. Is that possible? I was under the impression they didn't raise merit awards.

A person that I emailed said they'd raise my scholarship once, so I should wait until I have all my offers. Whether this has been true in the past or not I don't know. I think the new dean will be making moves like this and be heavily focused on improving LRAP. Thats what he said at ASW.

Thanks!

[WahooLaw24]

Yeah, sorry. COA with interest based on the Georgetown calculator is in the poll.

I'm visiting Duke in April. But I'm 3 years out of school and not preppy enough to feel comfortable at Duke, based on the people I know that go there. Also, when I told any of the Michigan faculty where I was looking the told me to look at Penn and just kind of laughed Duke off as not part of the same level of institution. I think they were talking about faculty contribution to scholarship, so I'm not sure why that should make a difference. But it was never a top contender for me.

Not sure why people at Michigan are just disregarding Duke given employment stats over the past few years, but I understand where you're coming from and I think, given your preferences, narrowing it down to Michigan/Penn is the right call.

I made a fairly similar decison last year (numbers pretty much the same) and wound up choosing UVA over Penn. There are some days where I regret it given the way Penn has just been killing it w/ respect to Biglaw over the past few years, and others when I'm glad I chose to go to a place where I'd be happier and where I could save a pretty decent amount in total COA.

There are probably people who wound find that to be a poor decision and other who would support it. So, at least IMO, you wouldn't be crazy to go to Michigan if that's where you felt more comfortable.

[bailey8078]

Thanks Wahoo.

Anyone voting Duke want to weigh in with some comments?

[WahooLaw24]

Thanks Wahoo.

Anyone voting Duke want to weigh in with some comments?

My guess is that since it's slightly cheaper and has placed just as well as Michigan recently, people are giving it the nod. Based on how you like Michigan and don't care as much for Duke, however, I don't think Duke makes much sense.

[rickgrimes69]

Thanks Wahoo.

Anyone voting Duke want to weigh in with some comments?

My guess is that since it's slightly cheaper and has placed just as well as far better than Michigan recently, people are giving it the nod. Based on how you like Michigan and don't care as much for Duke, however, I don't think Duke makes much sense.

Just sayin'. I agree with your overall statement though.

[WahooLaw24]

Thanks Wahoo.

Anyone voting Duke want to weigh in with some comments?

My guess is that since it's slightly cheaper and has placed just as well as far better than Michigan recently, people are giving it the nod. Based on how you like Michigan and don't care as much for Duke, however, I don't think Duke makes much sense.

Just sayin'. I agree with your overall statement though.

Yeah lol, I didn't want to go down that route because some people take the anti-Michigan stuff too far, but I would advise OP to take a good look at the most recent employment stats for sure.

[romothesavior]

Why no BU/BC if you want Boston? Those would be great options for Boston since I imagine you could go for close to free with those numbers.

[BigZuck]

I don't see what polo shirts and beer pong has to do with your law school choice so that's why I voted Duke. The fact that it has been out placing Michigan significantly recently seems much more important than the clothing style and perceived attitude of its undergrads.

[bailey8078]

I don't see what polo shirts and beer pong has to do with your law school choice so that's why I voted Duke. The fact that it has been out placing Michigan significantly recently seems much more important than the clothing style and perceived attitude of its undergrads.

Implying that this does not apply to the law school, or that feeling comfortable in a place you'll be for 3 years is unimportant?

[BigZuck]

I'm guessing it doesn't apply as much to the law school (rickgrimes actually goes there, maybe ask him?). But more importantly even if it does apply to some of the people there what does that have to do with you? What are they going to do, waterboard you with a beer bong while you're trying to write a brief?

[bailey8078]

I'm guessing it doesn't apply as much to the law school (rickgrimes actually goes there, maybe ask him?). But more importantly even if it does apply to some of the people there what does that have to do with you? What are they going to do, waterboard you with a beer bong while you're trying to write a brief?

Well I really disagree that it doesn't matter. I'd much rather be on a place where I'd like the people I'm around 24/7. If it doesn't apply to the law school, that's a totally different situation, and one that would make me take a more serious look at duke. I am going to visit in April. It is a nice offer.

[romothesavior]

Why no BU/BC if you want Boston? Those would be great options for Boston since I imagine you could go for close to free with those numbers.

[bailey8078]

Why no BU/BC if you want Boston? Those would be great options for Boston since I imagine you could go for close to free with those numbers.

Getting a job is more important to me than being in Boston. I applied to BU last year and got very little money. I guess I thought they'd hold my withdrawal against me. I guess I blanketed the T 14 and didn't hit BC. Its a little late at this point though, don't you think?

[BigZuck]

I'm guessing it doesn't apply as much to the law school (rickgrimes actually goes there, maybe ask him?). But more importantly even if it does apply to some of the people there what does that have to do with you? What are they going to do, waterboard you with a beer bong while you're trying to write a brief?

Well I really disagree that it doesn't matter. I'd much rather be on a place where I'd like the people I'm around 24/7. If it doesn't apply to the law school, that's a totally different situation, and one that would make me take a more serious look at duke. I am going to visit in April. It is a nice offer.

Doubtful that there is a law school with students who are all likeable. They are law students after all.

Also, part of being a grown up is learning to interact/work with people who are different than you. Sometimes you even have to work with people that you can't stand.

Plus, all this is based on a prejudice that you don't even know has any basis in reality.

I would consider things like cost, employment outcomes, location, etc. over what you think the students might be like.

[bailey8078]

Thanks for the life lesson Big Zuck.

I was basing my concern over the student body on other threads that have made Duke Law sound less than ideal for me. While I agree that cost and employment outcomes are important, choosing to place yourself somewhere that you won't enjoy and paying six figures for it seems stupid. This is especially true if it isn't that much better, or that much cheaper than my other options. I don't need everybody to be like me, I just don't want the general atmosphere of the school I attend to be unappealing.

[Rahviveh]

I'm guessing it doesn't apply as much to the law school (rickgrimes actually goes there, maybe ask him?). But more importantly even if it does apply to some of the people there what does that have to do with you? What are they going to do, waterboard you with a beer bong while you're trying to write a brief?

Well I really disagree that it doesn't matter. I'd much rather be on a place where I'd like the people I'm around 24/7. If it doesn't apply to the law school, that's a totally different situation, and one that would make me take a more serious look at duke. I am going to visit in April. It is a nice offer.

Doubtful that there is a law school with students who are all likeable. They are law students after all.

Also, part of being a grown up is learning to interact/work with people who are different than you. Sometimes you even have to work with people that you can't stand.

Plus, all this is based on a prejudice that you don't even know has any basis in reality.

I would consider things like cost, employment outcomes, location, etc. over what you think the students might be like.

Thanks for the life lesson Big Zuck.

I think BigZuck is a shitboomer, you should listen to him sonny

[WearyCartographer]

Dukie here. PM me if you decide to seriously consider Duke. I can talk more specifically about Duke and the Boston market.

I'll say that I don't think Duke Law is ANYTHING like it's undergrad reputation. But by all means judge for yourself at ASW. I'm really happy at Duke and I certainly would not describe myself or the vast majority of my friends as preppy/fratty/etc. Are there fratty people who party hard to blow off steam at Duke? Yes. But they are definitely not the majority of people and I would suspect that you find that at every law school - frankly I think that diversity in a student body is a good thing.

I don't think Penn justifies the debt when you have Duke and Michigan as options for $50k less (that's one to two less years in biglaw necessary to service your debt if you are aggressively paying it down). Like others have said - Duke has been outperforming Michigan lately in both biglaw and marginally clerkship placement. I have nothing but good things to say about the faculty and career services staff at Duke - I think there really is something to be said for having a 200 person class size.

If you want more specifics, just let me know.