Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

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guano
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby guano » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:10 pm

rawlsohard wrote:@kappycaft1: corporate litigation, or criminal.

@TooOld4This: I don't know the scholarship conditions, which is why I asked. 170+ seems to get 2/3 to 2.75/3 scholarship at some schools (GWU and Baylor, e.g.) but I don't know how strict those conditions are. Considering I wouldn't even apply until December/January, I could (in theory) save for the CoL of living in a place like Waco for 1.5 years, which only require taking out $50k in loan. But then, that's in theory, and I don't know how well Baylor hires. With a year of living expenses saved up, GWU could cost $60-80k, assuming those scholarship numbers hold.

with the exception of georgetown, none of those schools will get you corporate litigation

TooOld4This
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby TooOld4This » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:14 pm

rawlsohard wrote:@kappycaft1: corporate litigation, or criminal.

@TooOld4This: I don't know the scholarship conditions, which is why I asked. 170+ seems to get 2/3 to 2.75/3 scholarship at some schools (GWU and Baylor, e.g.) but I don't know how strict those conditions are. Considering I wouldn't even apply until December/January, I could (in theory) save for the CoL of living in a place like Waco for 1.5 years, which only require taking out $50k in loan. But then, that's in theory, and I don't know how well Baylor hires. With a year of living expenses saved up, GWU could cost $60-80k, assuming those scholarship numbers hold.


Where are you getting such good scholarship numbers for GWU? LSN only shows people with your GPA getting about $30k with a 170. Total cost of attendance, without adding loan origination fees, compounding interest, and tuition increases will be $223,000. $30k is a drop in the bucket.

Baylor looks like it might give you about $50k. Total cost of attendance will be over $140k. I don't know how you plan to save 1.5 years worth of living expenses in 18 mos when you are only making $30k. But even if you did, that would still leave you with well over $75k in additional debt.

Out of 157 students:
Only 76% of them have full time jd required jobs.
Of that 76%, about 50% earn $60k or less.
13% of the class is unemployed.

So for more than $75k in additional debt, you would be going to a school where only about 58 out of 154 students got your desired outcome of a $60k or more job.

That said, take the LSAT, see what you get and apply broadly. Once you get your total cost of attendance, run this sort of analysis (adding in compounding interest, loan fees and tuition increases) and see if law school is a calculated risk or nothing more than a crap shoot.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:18 pm

rawlsohard wrote:@kappycaft1: corporate litigation, or criminal.

@TooOld4This: I don't know the scholarship conditions, which is why I asked. 170+ seems to get 2/3 to 2.75/3 scholarship at some schools (GWU and Baylor, e.g.) but I don't know how strict those conditions are. Considering I wouldn't even apply until December/January, I could (in theory) save for the CoL of living in a place like Waco for 1.5 years, which only require taking out $50k in loan. But then, that's in theory, and I don't know how well Baylor hires. With a year of living expenses saved up, GWU could cost $60-80k, assuming those scholarship numbers hold.


You're really missing the point - you can't afford to spend any money if you want to avoid getting debt pwned. Once you get into the six-figure debt range, Biglaw is practically required to pay it off. GWU, for instance, gives you a non-negligible shot at Biglaw, but it also gives you a roughly equal shot at un/underemployment. Everything in between is just as bad, because you simply can't pay off $200k in loans in DC on a $40-60k salary. Do you understand why there is no situation that makes sense for you? You are just too deep in debt to take on any more.

Redfactor
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby Redfactor » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:15 am

There is another way for you, OP. Military service to your country.

If accepted into a JAG program your law school will be free and some branches will commission you as an O-3. As an O-3, will have the ability to pay down the majority of your UG debt if not all of it.

Or, if you are accepted to commission before law school, you will start as an O-1 and you again will be able to pay down the majority if not all of your UG debt (as less time for interest to accrue) during your four years. Then you will have your GI Bill to pay for law school, especially when coupled with the Yellow Ribbon Program.

Or finally, you can go in as enlisted and depending on the branch, start as an E-4. You will be able to pay some to half of your UG debt down in your four years and you will again be eligible to use the GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon Program for law school.

Plus, military service will help you mature a bit more.

The educational opportunities afforded to me through these and state programs are allowing me to attend any school I want (provided i get admitted) and graduate <50k in debt.

WhiskeynCoke
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby WhiskeynCoke » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:15 am

What is your goal exactly, for me to wallow crying in front of the computer about decisions I've had to deal with for a year now? The fact is, I can't change the past. I'm seeking advice for factors I can control now.


- My goal is to help you to avoid further ruining your financial future as you dont seem to recognize the horrific impact that staggering debt will have on it and your overall well-being.
- The advice I gave you as to what you can do/control now is listed numerically from 1-7.
- Your odds of "succeeding" are extremely low. Come back with an LSAT/scholarship and we'll talk. Even after that they're extremely low but vaguely plausible (like 10% at that point, depending on what school)

You made a thread asking for input on your "plan." Don't get defensive when literally everyone tells you its an awful and poorly thought out plan that will likely ruin you.

rawlsohard
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby rawlsohard » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:25 pm

@WhiskeynCoke: I appreciate the information everyone has given me. I took issue with your reply in particular because you did things like put quotemarks around "institution" or "plan" and attack past decisions that I can't control now ("unbelievably irresponsible financial decision." I've been out of undergrad for a year; it's not like I haven't had time to reflect on my life choices.). Barring that, the rest of your reply was helpful and I appreciate it.

Thanks guano, TooOld4This, rickgrimes69, Redfactor. (Also @Redfactor, thanks for taking the time you took to make your reply.)

@TooOld4This: I posted the numbers in my first reply. I used the 3.2 - 3.29 GPA range and the 170 - 175 range. I don't expect to get as high as 175, it's just for more data points.

But based on the numbers you supplied, I'm not sure I'll attempt it. It seems like with those numbers jobs even in the 50-60k range are not that easily obtainable. Considering they pegged 60k+ at 3.5/10, it reasonable to peg 50k+ at 4.5/10?

So at the moment I'm going to hold off. LSAT prep is ~200 hours, which is a significant amount of time I could spend doing something else.

Thanks for the replies everyone.




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