Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

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rawlsohard
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Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby rawlsohard » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:28 pm

Right now I live in south Texas. I have a BA in philosophy from a fourth-tier institution that I attended, in part, as a GPA booster. I also have $90k in undergrad debt. There are reasons for these things, but I don't want to bog you down with details -- whatever your initial reaction to the debt would be is something I've heard before, since I've been out of undergrad for about a year now. (I'm 24.)

My GPA is 3.25. I'm not going to attend if I get under a 167 or 168, though realistically I should set the bar for 170+.

I would love to be a lawyer, since a good deal of undergrad was spent with that in mind, but I also need to be realistic about my time investments, which is why I'm posting here.

This is the investment math I've run. You can tell me if it's bullshit: most of the jobs I can get now pay around $30k-35k. Something like $40k is optimistic, and difficult, because the CoL is so low here (you can get a 1-bedroom for as low as $600/month). Debt-to-income would suggest that 30k at 90k debt is equivalent to 60k at 180k debt, but deeper analysis reveals this to be not true: at least 13k will be spent on rent/food/bills, so the amount I can put toward debt is 17k/year vs. 47k/year. With these numbers, a 90k debt would take 5.2 years to pay off, while a 180k debt would take 3.8. (Further, this isn't taking into account emergency expenses, such as if I need to make expensive car repairs. In this sense, 60k gives more cushion.) Taking into account how much I'd take home, it wouldn't take long to recoup the opportunity cost of law school either. So it seems that, if I can make 60k, law is still better than my current circumstances up to $180k in debt.

Ideally, I'd like to be $0k extra in debt, but I realize this is unlikely. These are the stats I'd find acceptable to apply to law school: http://www.mylsn.info/iubg5z and these are more optimistic stats: http://www.mylsn.info/xohook

Some of these universities give out very nice scholarships: University of Miami, Seton Hall, University of Iowa, Baylor, and GWU. Georgetown also gives out a year's worth of tuition under the optimistic numbers.

If I were guaranteed to get a scholarship, I could save to pay the cost of living expenses and forego very little, making my potential debt load closer to $140k or even less. That's still a ton of debt by LS standards, but not a huge increase from my current debt load. However, I'm hoping that some of you know better than I do about scholarships like these. How likely are they to be conditional or extremely binding?

I realize that these are very "if-then" conditions, but I think this is a rational thing to ask given that if I don't meet these conditions, it might not be worth it to apply.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby somewhatwayward » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:48 pm

Many things wrong with this analysis:

1) Come back with a real LSAT score. Imaginary 170s are imaginary. The road is littered with people who thought they would get 170 or 168.

2) When you make 60K and spend 13K on living expenses, you don't get to send the other 47K to debt; you have taxes, and taxes are generally a higher proportion of your income if you make 60K than if you make 30K.

3) You can't assume you will make 60K out of law school. 60K is an optimistic median for c/o 2011....it is very likely the true median is lower. Perhaps it will be the true median for your class out of school. But that still means that half of graduates make less than that! If you go to a school that places more than half of its class into big law and clerkships, I guess you can assume you'll make 60K+ although there is still some risk that you won't. If you go somewhere like IU-B (a "T25") probably a half to two third of the class make less than 60K.

4) How are you planning to keep your law school debt under 90K? Many (most?) schools are pushing 200K in tuition and COL. Pretty much all are at 150K. This means you will need a pretty big scholarship, but you will be a splitter (if you manage to get a 168+). Splitters usually get smaller scholarships since they only help one median. This might be changing a little since high LSATs are less common. But when you take the scholarship, you also trade off quality of school for money. Generally as you go farther down the chain, you decrease your chances of employment and employment at a job that pays enough to service your loans. Job prospects drop more quickly than student quality, so you end up competing against people who are just as smart for way less spots.

5) You forgot to include interest. Obviously interest accrues faster on 180K in debt than on 90K in debt, and much of the law school debt will have a worse interest rate because undergrad loans are subsidized while law school ones are not.

6) If you knew you were gonna go to law school, why didn't you keep your grades up??? Law schools care so much. You're below the 25th percentile at every school worth attending. Sorry, but it is really creating a roadblock to getting a big scholarship.

Honestly there is probably other stuff but that is enough. IMO you need to pay down this undergrad debt before starting law school. 90K is a huge amount of undergrad debt, and I would be shitting my pants if I were entering law school, incurring more debt, when 90K was already hanging over my head.

rawlsohard
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby rawlsohard » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:05 pm

"Come back with xxx" doesn't help me here since I'm not attending if I get less than that, as I said. In other words, if I get below my numbers, I'm not "coming back" to you, so this conversation would be irrelevant then and I have a rational interest in knowing the answers to my questions now, since that also determines how much time investment I will put into studying the LSAT. If even a 170+ isn't worth it, which you seem to have hinted at, then it wouldn't be worth it to even attempt studying, now would it? Hence the point of asking these questions.

(1) How much can one expect to be taxed on $60k?

(2) If $60k is an optimistic median, what is a realistic one? $55k? Obviously, there's a limit. Does 30% of George Washington U make $40k/year?

How are you planning to keep your law school debt under 90K?


Which is the basis for this question:

(3) "Some of these universities give out very nice scholarships: University of Miami, Seton Hall, University of Iowa, Baylor, and GWU. Georgetown also gives out a year's worth of tuition under the optimistic numbers. If I were guaranteed to get a scholarship, I could save to pay the cost of living expenses and forego very little, making my potential debt load closer to $140k or even less. That's still a ton of debt by LS standards, but not a huge increase from my current debt load. However, I'm hoping that some of you know better than I do about scholarships like these. How likely are they to be conditional or extremely binding? "

(4) How rapidly could I expect interest to accrue on a $180k loan?

re: why my GPA is 3.25, again -- this doesn't answer any of my questions. I can go deep into the circumstances of my college education, but it's irrelevant to my questions.

(5) "IMO you need to pay down this undergrad debt before starting law school." -- this would take five years or more, then law school would make this eight years of pre-lawyer money. Even with 50k income from LS (again, what is a realistic median?), this seems like a better option than what I have currently. Why do you think paying ~$15k for five years is better than going to school for three and making (whatever the median is) for two years?

Redfactor
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby Redfactor » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:20 pm

I don't think that you're in much of a financial position to go to law school, sorry. Sucks to hear, but you took out LS debt for your undergrad.

If you are dead set on going to law school, I suggest that you attend a school in the region you want to practice/live that gives you as close to a full ride as possible. Georgetown and GW sound like horrible options for you unless you are URM / a miracle.

The other way is to just say FU to everyone who pays taxes and take out as much debt as you want knowing that you'll just go IBR. But you'd have to be a real POS to do that.

Ever think about getting a second bachelor's from a state school in a degree that is more marketable? I am sure you can keep your 30-35k job while going to school (well not actually sure due to your GPA) to keep paying down your debt and go at night for 6-10k a year.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:30 pm

rawlsohard wrote:Right now I live in south Texas. I have a BA in philosophy from a fourth-tier institution that I attended, in part, as a GPA booster. I also have $90k in undergrad debt. There are reasons for these things, but I don't want to bog you down with details -- whatever your initial reaction to the debt would be is something I've heard before, since I've been out of undergrad for about a year now. (I'm 24.)

My GPA is 3.25.


Stopped reading right here. (I actually read the rest, but this was all I needed to know). $90k is a large amount of loans in general; the idea of adding law school-sized debt on top is terrifying. You're already approaching Biglaw-level debt before you've spent a dime on tuition, so you need to basically go for free if you want any shot at paying it back on $30-60k. And that is a problem, because you are a classic (potential) splitter. Splitters generally get much less scholarship money. Look at some LSN profiles around your numbers, and you'll see that schools don't give many full rides to splitters.

Even if you manage to rock out on the LSAT and score a T14 acceptance (UVA, NU, and GULC are probably your best bets), you will be paying sticker or close to it. Graduating with over $300,000 in debt is absolutely insane. It's throwing good money after bad, my friend. I'm sorry, but you literally cannot afford law school.

rawlsohard
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby rawlsohard » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:34 pm

@Redfactor: I've considered a second bachelor's. However, I'm not sure how loan deferrals work, and if that doesn't happen then I would essentially have no money for emergencies if the tuition is close to 6-10k/year, and realistically it's probably closer to 15k/year. It also doesn't seem like it would help much.

Also, this (@redfactor and @rickgrimes69, since you both addressed the same concerns):

I don't think that you're in much of a financial position to go to law school, sorry. Sucks to hear, but you took out LS debt for your undergrad.


seems inaccurate, since over a five-year period it does seem like law school would be superior to where I am now. Over a ten-year period it seems like law would indisputably be superior. More specifically, I'm not really sure why you think my current situation is superior. Obviously, they're both bad situations, but one seems less bad.

edit: Also @rickgrimes: " Look at some LSN profiles around your numbers, and you'll see that schools don't give many full rides to splitters. "

I did, which is why I posed this question.

These are the stats I'd find acceptable to apply to law school: http://www.mylsn.info/iubg5z and these are more optimistic stats: http://www.mylsn.info/xohook

(3) "Some of these universities give out very nice scholarships: University of Miami, Seton Hall, University of Iowa, Baylor, and GWU. Georgetown also gives out a year's worth of tuition under the optimistic numbers. If I were guaranteed to get a scholarship, I could save to pay the cost of living expenses and forego very little, making my potential debt load closer to $140k or even less. That's still a ton of debt by LS standards, but not a huge increase from my current debt load. However, I'm hoping that some of you know better than I do about scholarships like these. How likely are they to be conditional or extremely binding?"


e.g. Baylor gives out $110,000 using the mylsn.info numbers. That's 275% tuition. But then, I have no idea how conditional scholarships like that are, hence the above question.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby Rahviveh » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:44 pm

In major markets, law school now costs closer to 250,000. You need a full ride to get total COA below six figures. How likely are you to get a full ride to a top local school? That's the question you need answered, and you can answer it by researching profiles on lawschoolnumbers.com

The other alternative is trying to get a scholarship at a lower T14 that would mitigate your current debt load. Again, I don't know how likely that is with your numbers, but high LSAT scorers are in great demand.

timbs4339
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:14 pm

Why are you assuming you'll be making the same now in five years?

If you can go to a local school on full or close to full, okay. But a school like GW could only confirm 25% of its class in jobs paying 65K or more.

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Nova
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby Nova » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:20 pm

rawlsohard wrote:e.g. Baylor gives out $110,000 using the mylsn.info numbers. That's 275% tuition. But then, I have no idea how conditional scholarships like that are, hence the above question.

Its 91%

scholarships at most tier 1 schools are conditional on good standing(don't flunk). Most schools ranked around Baylor and below typically have stipulations from top quartile to top half.
Here are the strips from last year:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=189178

Your best outcome seems to be 100k scholly from umn or wustl if you score 170+. Throwing your 90k debt on top of that, essentially its like your paying sticker. Sticker at a top 30 is a bad financial decision.

rawlsohard
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby rawlsohard » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:23 pm

timbs4339 wrote:Why are you assuming you'll be making the same now in five years?


Most jobs I have looked at in the 30k range don't seem to give substantial pay bumps until you've been at it for about five years, and in that case it's something like 30k --> 40k, instead of 30k --> 50k.

If you know of any entry-level jobs that are not like this that you think someone who is very good at writing/branding/marketing can do, let me know.

Your best outcome seems to be 100k scholly from umn or wustl if you score 170+. Throwing your 90k debt on top of that, essentially its like your paying sticker. Sticker at a top 30 is a bad financial decision.

And its not 275%. It'd like 91%


Right, I typed 275% and meant to type 275/300, which comes out to 91%.

I recognize that sticker at top 30 is a bad financial decision, but I don't know if that's a bad financial decision in my circumstances. If so, I'm not sure what's a better financial decision that doesn't involve making 40k in five years.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby Rahviveh » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:33 pm

Regardless of the financial aspect, how badly do you want to be a lawyer? Others are telling you not to go and that may in fact be the correct call, but you will not know what your actual options are until you have the offers in front of you. Right now its all speculation based on LSN. In the past, yes, splitters have not gotten much money. But a high LSAT score can be worth a lot, and splitter cycles are now even harder to predict due to the decline in apps. If you score a 170+ maybe you can get a full ride at a good local school. Then you can assess.

So tldr - nobody here can truly predict what your outcome will be given a score range. LSN sample is too small and less reliable due to changing market conditions. If you really want to be a lawyer, work your ass off for a 170+ and apply, then come back here next year.

TooOld4This
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby TooOld4This » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:36 pm

Post a scenario where you think this will work.

I doubt you will find a school that will give you enough money with a 170/3.25 to keep your total educational debt below $150k AND has employment statistics that make a $60k/year job upon graduation a realistic outcome.

timbs4339
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:05 pm

rawlsohard wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:Why are you assuming you'll be making the same now in five years?


Most jobs I have looked at in the 30k range don't seem to give substantial pay bumps until you've been at it for about five years, and in that case it's something like 30k --> 40k, instead of 30k --> 50k.

If you know of any entry-level jobs that are not like this that you think someone who is very good at writing/branding/marketing can do, let me know.



It's hard to predict entry-level career progression except in a couple of fields (law being one). Maybe you get a couple of years of experience and suddenly someone is interested in bumping you up to 60K. Or maybe you make 30k for five years and then revisit law school with a higher LSAT and less UG debt. What I do know is that your plan to pay off 180K in debt in 3.8 years on a 60K salary is wildly unrealistic for half a dozen reasons. I'll say that most people I know with that debt range and salary are on IBR.

rawlsohard
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby rawlsohard » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:30 pm

timbs4339 wrote:It's hard to predict entry-level career progression except in a couple of fields (law being one). Maybe you get a couple of years of experience and suddenly someone is interested in bumping you up to 60K. Or maybe you make 30k for five years and then revisit law school with a higher LSAT and less UG debt. What I do know is that your plan to pay off 180K in debt in 3.8 years on a 60K salary is wildly unrealistic for half a dozen reasons.


If you know a more realistic choice for income 10 years down the road, feel free to throw it by me. Making $30k for five years and applying to law school after that seems no better than applying to law school now, in terms of 10-year income. Low-ranked to mid-ranked in-state MBA programs cost $60,000. Do you think that would be a better option? Or are there similarly damning stats for MBAs?

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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby WhiskeynCoke » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:42 pm

I have a BA in philosophy from a fourth-tier institution that I attended, in part, as a GPA booster. I also have $90k in undergrad debt. There are reasons for these things, but I don't want to bog you down with details -- whatever your initial reaction to the debt would be is something I've heard before, since I've been out of undergrad for about a year now. (I'm 24.)

My GPA is 3.25.


So this was your master plan huh? Let me get this straight.....

Step 1: Attend "fourth-tier institution" (does that mean shitty in UG speak?) and take philosophy to "boost GPA."
Step 2. Go $90,000 in debt for this 3.25 "boosted" GPA in philosophy from TTTT.
Step 3. Go to law school

- Why did you pay so much money to go to this self-described shitty school?
- If you attended this shit heap and majored in philosophy for the planned purpose of "boosting" your gpa for law school, then why did you only get a 3.25?

I would love to be a lawyer, since a good deal of undergrad was spent with that in mind, but I also need to be realistic about my time investments, which is why I'm posting here.


Here's the truth..... You blew it. For law school to be at all financially feasible, you need to go to law school for free or almost free. Not only does your 3.25 ruin nearly all your chances at $$$ at decent schools, your unbelievably irresponsible $90k of UG debt cripples your ability to risk further debt.

To attend law school in any reasonably fashion you would have to:
1. Score at least 170+ on LSAT, the higher the better. (not easy to do... nearly impossible for most, ~3% accomplish this)
2. apply to 30+ schools
3. leverage every acceptance against each other for $$$.
4. Attend best school you get a full scholarship to (according to employment stats... LST not US News)
5. Do everything in your power to reduce your COL, hopefully leaving you with under $150k in debt after law school (will be very hard)
6. Finish in top 5% of class (esp. 1st year), get Law Review. Network, hustle, hustle, hustle. (get your resume out)
7. Pray to god you're one of the few lucky fuckers who actually gets a job from your TTT.

Suffer for the next 20+ years of your life, struggling to pay your 150k at 8% interest off, while hating the hell out of your shitlaw job you were "so lucky" to get.

Sound like a plan to you or what?

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smaug_
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby smaug_ » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:51 pm

Sorry OP, but you should really consider not going if you're planning on going for money. There are very few situations where law school will end up being a good investment for you, and the odds of achieving those outcomes are so low that it would be a fool's gamble to try to make it work.

Maybe in a few years if you pay off your loans, save up some money and get a good LSAT you could try applying and see what happens. As your numbers/situation stands, there's no winning situation.

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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:59 pm

rawlsohard wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:It's hard to predict entry-level career progression except in a couple of fields (law being one). Maybe you get a couple of years of experience and suddenly someone is interested in bumping you up to 60K. Or maybe you make 30k for five years and then revisit law school with a higher LSAT and less UG debt. What I do know is that your plan to pay off 180K in debt in 3.8 years on a 60K salary is wildly unrealistic for half a dozen reasons.


If you know a more realistic choice for income 10 years down the road, feel free to throw it by me. Making $30k for five years and applying to law school after that seems no better than applying to law school now, in terms of 10-year income. Low-ranked to mid-ranked in-state MBA programs cost $60,000. Do you think that would be a better option? Or are there similarly damning stats for MBAs?


Your plan is simply unrealistic for increasing your take-home income over the next decade- first of all 60K is a huge assumption. And I seriously doubt you'll work for five years and still be making 30K.

Look, you still seem to be laboring under the delusion that getting a graduate degree automatically boosts your income. That's a myth. Go to work.

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guano
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby guano » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:02 pm

check this link: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=202470
The person who made it works in finance

rawlsohard
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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby rawlsohard » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:15 pm

Thanks, guano.

WhiskeynCoke wrote:- Why did you pay so much money to go to this self-described shitty school?

... vitriol, vitriol, vitriol


Attacking my past decisions is useless. For all you know, my dad went there and threatened to throw me out of the home if I didn't. Or it could be that I was engaged to the president's daughter and stood to marry into money. Either way, this is entirely unproductive and seems like you're getting out some urge to attack a class of people who you think I represent. What is your goal exactly, for me to wallow crying in front of the computer about decisions I've had to deal with for a year now? The fact is, I can't change the past. I'm seeking advice for factors I can control now.

Anyway, there are still a few unanswered questions I have. Namely:

- Making $30k for five years and applying to law school after that seems no better than applying to law school now with the target LSAT, in terms of 10-year income. Why would this not be the case? If having a 170+ would still make law school a bad decision, then I could at least save ~200 or so hours of practicing. I'm not going to even apply if I get less than my target, as the first post said. I get that law school is a lot of debt; this is obvious by this point. Why would $30k for five years be better? The terribleness of law school notwithstanding, this path seems equally terrible. Why is it not terrible?

timbs4339 wrote:Look, you still seem to be laboring under the delusion that getting a graduate degree automatically boosts your income. That's a myth. Go to work.


Yeah, I've seen Glengarry Glen Ross too. I don't know why else you'd invoke that shtick, since it's 8:00 at night and I couldn't possibly be working anyway.

That said, why would working for five years at 30k automatically boost my income to anything significantly competitive with low-end law salaries? It would seem like I have even less reason to conclude this than I do with optimistic conclusions about law income.

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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:24 pm

rawlsohard wrote:Thanks, guano.

WhiskeynCoke wrote:- Why did you pay so much money to go to this self-described shitty school?

... vitriol, vitriol, vitriol


Attacking my past decisions is useless. For all you know, my dad went there and forced to throw me out of the home if I didn't. Or it could be that I was engaged to the president's daughter and stood to marry into money. Either way, this is entirely unproductive and seems like you're getting out some urge to attack a class of people who you think I represent. What is your goal exactly, for me to wallow crying in front of the computer about decisions I've had to deal with for a year now? The fact is, I can't change the past. I'm seeking advice for factors I can control now.

Anyway, there are still a few unanswered questions I have. Namely:

- Making $30k for five years and applying to law school after that seems no better than applying to law school now with the target LSAT, in terms of 10-year income. Why would this not be the case? If having a 170+ would still make law school a bad decision, then I could at least save ~200 or so hours of practicing. I'm not going to even apply if I get less than my target, as the first post said. I get that law school is a lot of debt; this is obvious by this point. Why would $30k for five years be better? The terribleness of law school notwithstanding, this path seems equally terrible. Why is it not terrible?

timbs4339 wrote:Look, you still seem to be laboring under the delusion that getting a graduate degree automatically boosts your income. That's a myth. Go to work.


Yeah, I've seen Glengarry Glen Ross too. I don't know why else you'd invoke that shtick, since it's 8:00 at night and I couldn't possibly be working anyway.

That said, why would working for five years at 30k automatically boost my income to anything significantly competitive with low-end law salaries? It would seem like I have even less reason to conclude this than I do with optimistic conclusions about law income.


First, 60K is not a "low-end salary." As I already pointed out, at GW only 25% of the class was confirmed making more than 65K. A substantial portion of the class was employed by the school making about 20K per year. Salaries are severely deflated because there is a huge oversupply of graduates.

Second, I think you can conclude you'll get some raises. And if you don't, so what? You've paid off some of that UG debt, accumulated contacts and experience (making you more marketable to legal employers) and law school will still be there.

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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby rawlsohard » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:36 pm

What is the low end? $50k? $40k? $20k? (Does "a substantial portion of that class" count as "the low end"?)

I feel like people think that by continuing to respond, I'm rejecting your advice. I'm not. All of you have made a pretty good case for not going. I'm just trying to get my unanswered questions answered.

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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby TooOld4This » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:46 pm

rawlsohard wrote:
Why would $30k for five years be better? The terribleness of law school notwithstanding, this path seems equally terrible. Why is it not terrible?


If you would answer my unanswered question you would get the reason.

Find a school you think you could go to with a total cost of attendance over three years of $60k.

Let us know what it is and we can walk through the employment outcomes with you.

All of your posts here and in the Ask a Graduate section treat law school as a short cut for fixing your current situation. With your GPA and this economy, it just isn't likely to be the case.

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Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:47 pm

rawlsohard wrote:What is the low end? $50k? $40k? $20k? (Does "a substantial portion of that class" count as "the low end"?)

I feel like people think that by continuing to respond, I'm rejecting your advice. I'm not. All of you have made a pretty good case for not going. I'm just trying to get my unanswered questions answered.


Well literally, the low end would be zero since some people are entirely unemployed. At GW, most unemployed people (one-fifth of the class) wind up in Pathways to Practice which pays $15/hr.

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For the "low-end" of full-time lawyer jobs, I'd say about 30K in most areas, 40K in high COL metro areas like NYC and DC. But many will be working short-term, temp, or part-time gigs and maybe making 10K or 15K as an independent contractor and then picking up non-law, non-professional work on the side.

20141023
Posts: 3072
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:17 am

Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby 20141023 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:49 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rawlsohard
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: Law Schools, potential LSATs, and income considerations

Postby rawlsohard » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:05 pm

@kappycaft1: corporate litigation, or criminal.

@TooOld4This: I don't know the scholarship conditions, which is why I asked. 170+ seems to get 2/3 to 2.75/3 scholarship at some schools (GWU and Baylor, e.g.) but I don't know how strict those conditions are. Considering I wouldn't even apply until December/January, I could (in theory) save for the CoL of living in a place like Waco for 1.5 years, which only require taking out $50k in loan. But then, that's in theory, and I don't know how well Baylor hires. With a year of living expenses saved up, GWU could cost $60-80k, assuming those scholarship numbers hold.




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