Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

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thethe
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby thethe » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:27 pm

japenanunez wrote:@romothesavior

Retake is not a possibility anymore, because if I don't start school in the fall I will pretty much be without an income. Also, I am horrible at standardized tests so I don't think it would make much of a difference.

That's always a bad reason. It is very easy to find some job at our age group that if you hustle, you'll be able to support yourself. You can wait tables, pour drinks, be an assistant, do sales, etc. for a year. The goal should always be doing what's best for you over a 40 year span, not what is the easiest for 1 year. There is no shame in waiting tables for 1 year. I can understand the shame in waiting tables for 20 years, but don't rush it.

Of these, if cost is the same I'd go with Cardozo. It doesn't have a bad reputation, just not an especially good one. The issue is you always want a good one in this economy. However, it's your best current option.

And thank you for your service.

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guano
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby guano » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:27 pm

thethe wrote:Rich kids aren't so bad in general, but the NJ rich kids are unbearable. They don't seem to realize that it's their parents who are successful and accomplished, and not them.

That's not limited to just NJ rich kids

MrAnon
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby MrAnon » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:33 pm

If someone offered me 50,000 per year full ride to attend any of these schools I'd still question the value proposition of attending.

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guano
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby guano » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:34 pm

MrAnon wrote:If someone offered me 50,000 per year full ride to attend any of these schools I'd still question the value proposition of attending.

Please elaborate this point

(seriously. In this particular case, I want OP to get your view)

japenanunez
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby japenanunez » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:39 pm

MrAnon wrote:If someone offered me 50,000 per year full ride to attend any of these schools I'd still question the value proposition of attending.


Thanks for your opinion, but to me Cardozo, Rutgers, or Seton Hall at approximately $140,000.00 (Paid in full with my GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon program) + $36,000.00 (housing allowance) sounds like a great deal compared to being in Afghanistan or Iraq being shot at.

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DaRascal
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby DaRascal » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:41 pm

guano wrote:
MrAnon wrote:If someone offered me 50,000 per year full ride to attend any of these schools I'd still question the value proposition of attending.

Please elaborate this point

(seriously. In this particular case, I want OP to get your view)



Also very interested seeing as I'm on some T14 WL's and have a full ride at Seton Hall. Right now I'm thinking SH is better than T14 sticker unless it's a T6.

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guano
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby guano » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:42 pm

DaRascal wrote:
guano wrote:
MrAnon wrote:If someone offered me 50,000 per year full ride to attend any of these schools I'd still question the value proposition of attending.

Please elaborate this point

(seriously. In this particular case, I want OP to get your view)



Also very interested seeing as I'm on some T14 WL's and have a full ride at Seton Hall. Right now I'm thinking SH is better than T14 sticker unless it's a T6.

please tell me you've got some in-between options

Also, what's the stip at Seton Hall? They've been accused of section stacking

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DaRascal
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby DaRascal » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:49 pm

guano wrote:
DaRascal wrote:
guano wrote:
MrAnon wrote:If someone offered me 50,000 per year full ride to attend any of these schools I'd still question the value proposition of attending.

Please elaborate this point

(seriously. In this particular case, I want OP to get your view)



Also very interested seeing as I'm on some T14 WL's and have a full ride at Seton Hall. Right now I'm thinking SH is better than T14 sticker unless it's a T6.

please tell me you've got some in-between options

Also, what's the stip at Seton Hall? They've been accused of section stacking



Best other option is BC at sticker price. Stip is Top 75% and I'm from north jersey.

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guano
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby guano » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:52 pm

DaRascal wrote:Best other option is BC at sticker price. Stip is Top 75% and I'm from north jersey.

stip is top 75%? not bad - if you're bottom 25% you should probably drop out anyway

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DaRascal
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby DaRascal » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:57 pm

guano wrote:
DaRascal wrote:Best other option is BC at sticker price. Stip is Top 75% and I'm from north jersey.

stip is top 75%? not bad - if you're bottom 25% you should probably drop out anyway


So it's a good decision to put my seat deposit down then right?

thethe
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby thethe » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:06 pm

guano wrote:
DaRascal wrote:Best other option is BC at sticker price. Stip is Top 75% and I'm from north jersey.

stip is top 75%? not bad - if you're bottom 25% you should probably drop out anyway

I agree with this logic, and would agree even if it was top 50%.

But I don't think it's a good deal, because of section stacking.

True, you might have your law degree for free, but if you're going to a school with TT prospects you should not have to further diminish your chances of getting a good job by competing against students with numbers for tier one schools. There is a legitimate financial cost, though I don't contend to have the slightest idea of how to calculate it, in this.

Employers won't know Seton Hall section stacks, you can't really bring it up to them without looking like a jerk and it will hurt you. If you're going to a school with higher pressure for a supreme class rank, you shouldn't have to deal with shady practices that further diminish your opportunity.

You have a free law degree... but then what?

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DaRascal
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby DaRascal » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:22 pm

Yeah but does Seton Hall section stack for sure? I've heard some people say that they do and some say that they don't.

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guano
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby guano » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:23 pm

DaRascal wrote:Yeah but does Seton Hall section stack for sure? I've heard some people say that they do and some say that they don't.

there are allegations, but you can never know for sure

resilience99
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby resilience99 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:22 pm

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Last edited by resilience99 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dirtrida2
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby dirtrida2 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:31 pm

To the above poster, easy on the blue text and fix your quotes.

Did you attend or plan on attending SH? You seem to be offended by our observations/assumptions. I also never implied that they were "all" rich kids. I just said that they definitely receive a small percentage bump in the employment numbers due to the connections these students hold (not typically a bad thing).

As per the "best" law school in NJ - that is not so easily decided. If anything, the Rutgers name seems to hold a little more regional weight. The drastic difference in tuition is also another factor to consider. Though, ill just stop here - neither of these schools are worth writing home about. It's like deciding between two pieces of rotten fruit.

resilience99
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby resilience99 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:09 pm

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Last edited by resilience99 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thethe
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby thethe » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:12 pm

resilience99 wrote:
dirtrida2 wrote:To the above poster, easy on the blue text and fix your quotes.

Did you attend or plan on attending SH? You seem to be offended by our observations/assumptions. I also never implied that they were "all" rich kids. I just said that they definitely receive a small percentage bump in the employment numbers due to the connections these students hold (not typically a bad thing).

As per the "best" law school in NJ - that is not so easily decided. If anything, the Rutgers name seems to hold a little more regional weight. The drastic difference in tuition is also another factor to consider. Though, ill just stop here - neither of these schools are worth writing home about. It's like deciding between two pieces of rotten fruit.


Actually it is generally regarded as the best law school in NJ. Consistently higher bar pass rate. Higher ranking. Better employment. Not being defensive, just stating the obvious. Rutgers is definitely cheaper for most students, but SH is the better school.

Adelle is the hottest fat chick.

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guano
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby guano » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:16 pm

resilience99 wrote:Actually it is generally regarded as the best law school in NJ.
by Seton Hall staff, students and (some) alumni
resilience99 wrote:Consistently higher bar pass rate.
true
resilience99 wrote:Barely Higher ranking.
fixed
resilience99 wrote:Better employment.
once you get rid of firms 2-10, it's a dead heat (and Rutgers places more into biglaw)
resilience99 wrote:Not being defensive, just stating the obvious. Rutgers is definitely cheaper for most students, but SH is the better school.
then how come SH has nearly double the acceptance rate? They're peer schools. Sure, one of them might have a slight edge, but, to say that one's noticeably better than the other is overreaching

resilience99
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby resilience99 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:27 pm

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Last edited by resilience99 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby romothesavior » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:31 pm

You do realize that USNWR rankings are virtually meaningless, and doubly so outside of the T14?

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guano
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby guano » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:33 pm

romothesavior wrote:You do realize that USNWR rankings are virtually meaningless, and doubly so outside of the T14?

and triply so near the middle of the pack (which is why there are regularly huge swings from one year to another)

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dirtrida2
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby dirtrida2 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:36 pm

resilience99 wrote:
guano wrote:
resilience99 wrote:Actually it is generally regarded as the best law school in NJ.
by Seton Hall staff, students and (some) alumni
resilience99 wrote:Consistently higher bar pass rate.
true
resilience99 wrote:Barely Higher ranking.
fixed
resilience99 wrote:Better employment.
once you get rid of firms 2-10, it's a dead heat (and Rutgers places more into biglaw)
resilience99 wrote:Not being defensive, just stating the obvious. Rutgers is definitely cheaper for most students, but SH is the better school.
then how come SH has nearly double the acceptance rate? They're peer schools. Sure, one of them might have a slight edge, but, to say that one's noticeably better than the other is overreaching


When is 22 spots barley higher in ranking? thats half a tier!

The contrast in bar pass rate alone speaks to the education quality. And its a big difference. Not saying rutgers is bad, but SH gives you a better education and preparation.



Mainly everything you just said is subjective.

Secondly, outside the T20 - rankings don't mean squat.

For comparison. Wake forest, a peer school I was interested in places a few percentage points higher in JD employment and only 4% more of its grads into nlj250 big law. Rutgers is ranked 91 while Wake moved up to 36. Or you could look at American; that just speaks for itself.

resilience99
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby resilience99 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:38 pm

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Last edited by resilience99 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dirtrida2
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby dirtrida2 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:45 pm

higher bar pass rate is not subjective at all.


Your explanation for it was. How do you know that the quality of education is the sole reasoning behind their higher passage rate? How do you know that it isn't because Seton Hall recruits/attracts students of a higher intelligence?

Their are too many factors to consider when looking at a statistic like that.

Like I said earlier - arguing over these minute details is silly. Until one of the schools starts placing 20% of its grads into big law or jumps into the T20 with strong employment prospects their is no clear winner. Frankly, who cares - it all comes down to $$$ when your talking about TTT.

Mister Gold
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo

Postby Mister Gold » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:17 pm

Fellow vet here, was considering Seton Hall as well because of yellow ribbon program. I decided against it because they only offer yellow ribbon to 10 students per year. First come, first served basis. If you're not actively refreshing email when the forms are released, there's a possibility of not being one of the first ten. Considering the astronomical prices associated with SH, not having the YR for even 1 year out of 3 would be a disaster.

If you can retake and get a few extra points, Fordham would be a solid option. They offer 55 spots in YR, so you wouldn't have to worry about that aspect of things. I believe the BAH is also significantly higher for Fordham than SH, but I haven't looked at the charts.

Anyway, high risk at SH, there are much safer options for us as veterans at other schools.

Hope this helps you in some way, good luck.




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