Seton Hall vs. Rutgers N vs. Cardozo Forum

[japenanunez]

Before anyone goes off about how I am crazy for going to law school or that these schools are toilets or diploma mills here is my situation;

I am a Marine Corps Veteran, who still has his full GI Bill benefits to use towards law school and given that all three schools either participate in the Yellow ribbon program or are a state school, my debt at the end of three years will be $0.

Also, I have very little interest in Big Law, I won't rule it out, but at this point I have my hopes set on a public interest career in NYC.

I live in Jersey and the commutes for each school will be; Rutgers N & Seton Hall: 30 Minutes / Cardozo: 45 Minutes

My GI Bill will give me a monthly allowance of $2200 per month if I go to Rutgers N or Seton Hall and $3200 if I go to Cardozo. a Difference of $36,000.00 at the end of 3 years, if I choose Cardozo.

Here are the facts surrounding each school;

Rutgers N; accepted me into their JD/MBA program, I applied to the business to give myself some versatility given that the law school is not the most prestigious in the NYC market. I was also accepted into their Minority Student Program, which I think is pretty awesome. When I visited the School it felt like a good fit and the I liked the fact that the people there seemed down to earth. The building was nice as well. I made my seat deposits for both the Law school and Business School, which totals to about $900 and that I will have to get partial refunds for. I was pretty much set on going to Rutgers until I heard from Cardozo, just in case anybody was wondering.

Seton Hall; accepted with no special offers or programs. Visited their campus for their ASD and the general atmosphere was elitist and Douchey. Everyone seemed to be rich and pretentious, even got a couple of surprised looks when I mentioned I was a veteran. Didn't seem like the place an Hispanic would feel comfortable at. The whole time I felt like throat punching the next person surprised by the fact they were meeting an Hispanic who served in the Marine Corps. However, the building and library were very nice and the clinics seemed good. Also, they threw around a lot of $$$ giving the impression they were very well funded.

Cardozo; accepted me a couple of days ago after about three months of waiting on a reply, which really pissed me off. But, whatever, I was accepted. I visited the school in February during a diversity program they had for prospective students. I loved the mock class I participated in with Professor Yankah and the constitutional law class with Professor Adams. They both seemed brilliant and did a very good job of making very dull subjects seem interesting. The building and library were the least favorite of all three schools, but the location in NYC is exquisite. The student body seemed close and not as cut throat as I had heard it was, but then again maybe they were on their best behavior for the 0L's. The clinics from Cardozo seem incredible I mean they started the Innocence Project for gods sake. The fact that it is Jewish does not seem to be a major issue there, and even the students I talked said is was not an issue. Overall experience there was very good, except for the fact that the student body seemed very young, I think the average age is 24. I will be 30 when I start law school so I don't know how accepting Cardozo students will be of a 30 year old Marine Corps Vet who is ultra competitive.

Needless to say I am having a hard time choosing. So if any one has some insights on any of the schools, or on my situation in general please feel free to chime in. Thanks.

[hopingtogetin]

Well, I think you can definitely rule out Seton Hall. It's not a great school, and from your description, it seems like you don't want to go there.

I would choose Cardozo. It's 30 places higher than Rutgers on the rankings, and I heard the Rutgers law schools are combining or something (?) so I don't know if that would affect you, but just a thought. Cardozo is the best school you got into, and I would assume you could probalby take a Cardozo degree back to NJ better than you could take a Rutgers degree to NYC. So that's a thought.

I mean you're pretty much balancing "better fit" against "better education." I think you should go for "better education." I would be surprised if people at Cardozo didn't respect you for your service and weren't willing to make friends with a 30-year-old. So I would say go for Cardozo, personally.

Best of luck and thank you so much for your service to our country.

[Username123]

I would say Cardozo because of a couple reasons. First, you want to practice in NYC doing public interest work. Now Dozo isn't the greatest for that, but it's a ton better at getting your foot in the door compared to Seton Hall and Rutgers. Second, you are getting more money from the government while going there, which allows you to save more. Third, you can still live at home so cost is very minimal for you.

Rutgers or Seton Hall will not get you into PI work in NYC. You're getting paid to go to law school. Go to the one that gets you into the market you wanna work in - Cardozo.

[Username123]

And thank you very much for serving for our country and our freedom.

[dirtrida2]

Tagged - interested in the feedback.

I also second your opinion of Seton Hall - something about the atmosphere and student body didn't click.

[romothesavior]

Of these, I'd say Cardozo. But is it possible to retake and still get your benefits? Imagine going to a good school for free instead of a mediocre to crappy school for free. It's a heck of a lot better deal.

[japenanunez]

I know Cardozo has a very strong IP reputation, but I have not heard good or bad news regarding PI reputation, when I visited the school one of the deans explained in full detail their involvement in PI, but then he might have been trying to sell me the dream. Thanks for the insight.

[romothesavior]

I know Cardozo has a very strong IP reputation, but I have not heard good or bad news regarding PI reputation, when I visited the school one of the deans explained in full detail their involvement in PI, but then he might have been trying to sell me the dream. Thanks for the insight.

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but it doesn't have a good reputation for either. Try not to let things like purported "specialties" affect your decision too much. Cardozo places 50% of their students into long-term, full-time, J.D.-required jobs. There are dozens and dozens of better schools for IP and PI.

[japenanunez]

@romothesavior

Retake is not a possibility anymore, because if I don't start school in the fall I will pretty much be without an income. Also, I am horrible at standardized tests so I don't think it would make much of a difference.

[guano]

Well, I think you can definitely rule out Seton Hall. It's not a great school, and from your description, it seems like you don't want to go there.

I would choose Cardozo. It's 30 places higher than Rutgers on the rankings, and I heard the Rutgers law schools are combining or something (?) so I don't know if that would affect you, but just a thought. Cardozo is the best school you got into, and I would assume you could probalby take a Cardozo degree back to NJ better than you could take a Rutgers degree to NYC. So that's a thought.

rankings is the wrong thing to look at here, and Cardozo is not a "better education" than Rutgers. There is no qualitative difference in between Cardozo and Rutgers (Newark). Do not choose a school based solely on rankings, it's a stupid mistake.
I also disagree that a Cardozo degree travels better to NJ than a Rutgers degree going into NYC; it's actually other way around. Rutgers has a stronger name in the city than Cardozo does in Jersey.
The issues regarding a possible combining of Rutgers Newark and Rutgers Camden is a separate matter, and one that any prospective student to either school should consider, but, IMO the ramifications are blown out of proportion. Rutgers will remain the state flagship law school and, even if the impracticability of combining the campuses were possible, it would not diminish employment prospects.

However, that being said, if OP wants to practice in NYC, Cardozo is a better choice. Not because of the rankings (which are nowhere near as significant as ignorant posters think), but because it is in the city and is focused on getting jobs in the city, while Rutgers is focused on NJ, and getting jobs in NJ.

[romothesavior]

@romothesavior

Retake is not a possibility anymore, because if I don't start school in the fall I will pretty much be without an income. Also, I am horrible at standardized tests so I don't think it would much of a difference.

Did you study a lot for your first take?

And you can do something, anything for a year. Lot's of people have made that decision. If you could get into Fordham and have your vet benefits pay for it, it would be a hell of a deal.

[guano]

Of these, I'd say Cardozo. But is it possible to retake and still get your benefits? Imagine going to a good school for free instead of a mediocre to crappy school for free. It's a heck of a lot better deal.

On that note, Fordham participates in the yellow ribbon program, and is the best school in the region that a GI can attend for free. They also provide a significant boost re applications for vets.

[japenanunez]

I was wait-listed at Fordham this year, I will try to get in off their wait-list, but I don't know what my chances are of getting in off the wait list. I totally agree Fordham would be an incredibly great deal for free, but i have two little mouths to feed, preventing me from taking a one year sabbatical. Oh and after being in the Marine Corps for 9 years, I don't just want to do something for a year, I got out to pursue my dream of becoming a lawyer and I don't think I can wait any longer.

[romothesavior]

Do you know how Fordham would view a June retake? If you could just get a few points and get in, it would be so worth it.

Also, send some LOCIs, maybe make a phone call or two and tell them they're your top choice, that you love the school, that you really want to attend, etc. Fordham for free would be a steal, and would be FAR better than the schools you're looking at now.

[guano]

Retake in June. Worst that can happen is nothing changes.
Last year, people were accepted off the waitlist through the end of July, and it won't surprise me if that'll happen again this year

[resilience99]

..

[japenanunez]

Do you know how Fordham would view a June retake? If you could just get a few points and get in, it would be so worth it.

Also, send some LOCIs, maybe make a phone call or two and tell them they're your top choice, that you love the school, that you really want to attend, etc. Fordham for free would be a steal, and would be FAR better than the schools you're looking at now.

That is pretty much my strategy right now, I don'y know how they would view a June retake, but you are right I should ask. I have not sent out a LOCI yet, since I figured the wait list at Fordham is pretty much a very polite way of saying you are not what we are looking for. Again, I have very little experience in this realm, so I am kind of taking it one day at a time.

[japenanunez]

Take employment stats with a grain of salt, but Seton Hall is much better for employment than Dozo or Rutgers. Specifically Rutgers.

Much better for employment in NJ or NYC? Because while I would not mind working in NJ, where I want to end up is NYC.

[guano]

Take employment stats with a grain of salt, but Seton Hall is much better for employment than Dozo or Rutgers. Specifically Rutgers.

Much better for employment in NJ or NYC? Because while I would not mind working in NJ, where I want to end up is NYC.

That makes Dozo the clear winner. Also, the employment statistics are not that different between the schools that one can say Seton Hall is better - they're behind Rutgers-N in (semi-)desirable employment and make up the difference in the 2-10 firm size range (aka starting up shop with your equally unemployed buddies)

[japenanunez]

Take employment stats with a grain of salt, but Seton Hall is much better for employment than Dozo or Rutgers. Specifically Rutgers.

Much better for employment in NJ or NYC? Because while I would not mind working in NJ, where I want to end up is NYC.

That makes Dozo the clear winner. Also, the employment statistics are not that different between the schools that one can say Seton Hall is better - they're behind Rutgers-N in (semi-)desirable employment and make up the difference in the 2-10 firm size range (aka starting up shop with your equally unemployed buddies)

^^^^that's hilarious

[dirtrida2]

Take employment stats with a grain of salt, but Seton Hall is much better for employment than Dozo or Rutgers. Specifically Rutgers.

You also have to consider the fact that Seton Hall is basically the landing zone for kids, with wealthy parents, who couldn't break into NYU or Columbia. A decent chunk of SH students have had legal jobs lined up since they came out of the womb.

[japenanunez]

Take employment stats with a grain of salt, but Seton Hall is much better for employment than Dozo or Rutgers. Specifically Rutgers.

You also have to consider the fact that Seton Hall is basically the landing zone for kids, with wealthy parents, who couldn't break into NYU or Columbia. A decent chunk of SH students have had legal jobs lined up since they came out of the womb.

I definitely agree with this statement, half of the kids there talked about daddy's firm or daddy's connection, I basically felt that Seton Hall was a good ole boys club.

[dirtrida2]

Take employment stats with a grain of salt, but Seton Hall is much better for employment than Dozo or Rutgers. Specifically Rutgers.

You also have to consider the fact that Seton Hall is basically the landing zone for kids, with wealthy parents, who couldn't break into NYU or Columbia. A decent chunk of SH students have had legal jobs lined up since they came out of the womb.

I definitely agree with this statement, half of the kids there talked about daddy's firm or daddy's connection, I basically felt that Seton Hall was a good ole boys club.

Yea I'm from NY/NJ and grew up with "those" kids. That's the reputation SH gets around here - especially their undergrad business school. I have nothing against it, but it definitely gives them that extra boost in employment. The only positive you could take from that is network, network, network; become friends with "those" kids and get your foot in the door, lol.

[japenanunez]

Take employment stats with a grain of salt, but Seton Hall is much better for employment than Dozo or Rutgers. Specifically Rutgers.

You also have to consider the fact that Seton Hall is basically the landing zone for kids, with wealthy parents, who couldn't break into NYU or Columbia. A decent chunk of SH students have had legal jobs lined up since they came out of the womb.

I definitely agree with this statement, half of the kids there talked about daddy's firm or daddy's connection, I basically felt that Seton Hall was a good ole boys club.

Yea I'm from NY/NJ and grew up with "those" kids. That's the reputation SH gets around here - especially their undergrad business school. I have nothing against it, but it definitely gives them that extra boost in employment. The only positive you could take from that is network, network, network; become friends with "those" kids and get your foot in the door, lol.

Yeah they definitely seemed to be the people you want to have on your side, but definitely not the crowd I want to go to law school with.

[thethe]

Rich kids aren't so bad in general, but the NJ rich kids are unbearable. They don't seem to realize that it's their parents who are successful and accomplished, and not them.