When is a full ride worth it?

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superhopefulwoo
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When is a full ride worth it?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:06 pm

Can we get a list of schools outside the top 14 that would be worth full tuition nationally and/regionally (please specify)?

Basically, what schools could be worth the debt of COL?

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dirtrida2
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby dirtrida2 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:14 pm

superhopefulwoo wrote:Can we get a list of schools outside the top 14 that would be worth full tuition nationally and/regionally (please specify)?

Basically, what schools could be worth the debt of COL?


Depends on a lot of factors - mainly the stipulations of the scholarship, reputation of the school in the region, and your ties to the area.

superhopefulwoo
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:16 pm

dirtrida2 wrote:
superhopefulwoo wrote:Can we get a list of schools outside the top 14 that would be worth full tuition nationally and/regionally (please specify)?

Basically, what schools could be worth the debt of COL?


Depends on a lot of factors - mainly the stipulations of the scholarship, reputation of the school in the region, and your ties to the area.


Well, I want opinions so schools you personally think would be worth it in your region and any non t14 that are potentially national

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Ramius
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:19 pm

superhopefulwoo wrote:
dirtrida2 wrote:
superhopefulwoo wrote:Can we get a list of schools outside the top 14 that would be worth full tuition nationally and/regionally (please specify)?

Basically, what schools could be worth the debt of COL?


Depends on a lot of factors - mainly the stipulations of the scholarship, reputation of the school in the region, and your ties to the area.


Well, I want opinions so schools you personally think would be worth it in your region and any non t14 that are potentially national


What is your definition of "national?" If <5-10% of the class places outside the region, are they at all "national" in the sense you mean?

Going after what you're getting at, I'd say you'd have a nominal shot at employment nationally with ties from a few schools outside the T14, but you can probably count them on one hand.

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dirtrida2
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby dirtrida2 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:24 pm

superhopefulwoo wrote:
dirtrida2 wrote:
superhopefulwoo wrote:Can we get a list of schools outside the top 14 that would be worth full tuition nationally and/regionally (please specify)?

Basically, what schools could be worth the debt of COL?


Depends on a lot of factors - mainly the stipulations of the scholarship, reputation of the school in the region, and your ties to the area.


Well, I want opinions so schools you personally think would be worth it in your region and any non t14 that are potentially national



maybe you should be telling me where you're located so we can look at schools in your region.

superhopefulwoo
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:31 pm

Personally I'm looking at California, Pennsylvania, and Washington State.

Edited for weird grammar/spelling typos from my phone.
Last edited by superhopefulwoo on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ramius
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:35 pm

It's amazing, LST has this incredibly functional system where you click on the state you want to work in, and *pow* the results of schools placing in that region magically appears.

Seriously, use LST, focus on where you want to work, and see if the risk is worth the reward?

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jvincent11
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby jvincent11 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:36 pm

Not sure if any school outside the T14 has a national reputation that's worth sticker. There are some schools within the T14 that aren't worth sticker to certain people (i.e. it would not be wise to pay sticker at Berkeley for someone who wants NYC biglaw, because sticker at Cornell would make more sense).

I imagine if you live/want to work in Tennessee Vanderbilt is worth sticker. Same with UCLA, Texas, and UNC (for respective regions). I'm sure there are others as well.

EDIT: misinterpreted your question

Most of the T25 and a few others (BC, UNC) are national ENOUGH to justify attending on full scholarship, but it will still be difficult to get a job outside of its region. Once you get out of the T30, you will most likely be limited to the region the school is in
Last edited by jvincent11 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

empyreanrrv
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby empyreanrrv » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:47 pm

I think OP is asking what schools are worth going to on a full ride and of those schools, which are national and which are regional.

OP - Any school that is the top in its state is worth going to on a full ride. Any school where the debt from COL can be conceivably paid back is worth going to. This could full well be 50-100 schools. Even with 50% FTLT jobs, most people can pay back ~60k.
Last edited by empyreanrrv on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ramius
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:53 pm

empyreanrrv wrote:I think OP is asking what schools are worth going to on a full ride and of those schools, which are national and which are regional.

OP - Any school that is the top in its state is worth going to on a full ride. Any school where the debt from COL can be conceivably paid back is worth going to. This could full well be 50-100 schools. Even with 50% FTLT jobs, most people can pay back ~60k.


The OP clearly wants schools with some national reach, so regardless whether UMontana is worth attending on a full ride if you want to practice in Montana, this is the question that needs to be answered.

From the states he listed, there are a select few worth it in California, Pennsylvania and Washington State worth it even on a full ride, especially since they're so wildly different that I doubt he is from all of them.

Unsurprisingly, all of the information the OP wants is available at LST. Seriously, it might be a one-stop shop for all 0Ls, or at least it should be.

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Ramius
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:00 pm

empyreanrrv wrote:OP - Any school that is the top in its state is worth going to on a full ride. Any school where the debt from COL can be conceivably paid back is worth going to. This could full well be 50-100 schools. Even with 50% FTLT jobs, most people can pay back ~60k.


This is also a bit of an overexageration. It really depends on the OP's personal circumstances. If the OP is leaving a profitable job on the table with a wife and kids needing support, even a full ride is risky at a decent regional school. OTOH, if the OP is an Eng/Philo. major straight out of UG with no ties other than to the local strong regional, it is probably a decent bet.

Specific situations differ WILDLY, deciding based simply on a ranking or even on some abstract relative "worth" makes no sense. OP, figure out what your potential costs, benefits and losses will be, be harshly honest with yourself about this goal of going to law school and what you wanted out of it, and go from there.

Making adult decisions is surprisingly easy if you're smart and willing to be smart about your own situation. And when you can't be sure? Don't be afraid to play it safe and not make the life-ruining decision based on an ill-conceived risk.

nebula666
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby nebula666 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:13 pm

superhopefulwoo wrote:Well if like to know for regions I'm looking at but I thought it'd be nice to get the count of regionals that are worth full tuition from people in all areas.

Personally I'm looking at California, Pennsylvania, and Washington State.


CA: Obviously UCLA/USC but also Loyola, Pepperdine, Davis, Hastings, Irvine

PA: Penn State, Pitt, Temple, Villanova

WA: UW, Gonzaga

With a 100% scholarship, no or reasonable stips, and a desire to work in these SPECIFIC markets, all of these are at least decent options.

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Nova
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby Nova » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:15 pm

superhopefulwoo wrote:any non t14 that are potentially national

There are none.

superhopefulwoo wrote:Can we get a list of schools outside the top 14 that would be worth full tuition nationally and/regionally (please specify)?

I dont think a list would work, because its too subjective. I generally agree with Nebula's line of reasoning.

superhopefulwoo
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:28 pm

Nova wrote:
superhopefulwoo wrote:any non t14 that are potentially national

There are none.

superhopefulwoo wrote:Can we get a list of schools outside the top 14 that would be worth full tuition nationally and/regionally (please specify)?

I dont think a list would work, because its too subjective. I generally agree with Nebula's line of reasoning.


Wow. This thread is more of an opinions from people in their perspective regions mainly out of curiousity. I am a 0L that has already been lectured on LST, and frankly, I've been lucky enough to use it and make decisions on my current cycle based on the data.

On that note, I don't think LST should be the ONLY measure of if a school is worth it - especially when you are talking about full scholarships. I wanted to see to what degree most people would agree it would be worth going to school for 60k of debt (which is typical COL from what I've gathered). I understand everyone has a different situation and there are tons of exceptions to the rule. Let's put it this way, if someone in Hawaii said "UH" - I would be inclined to say there are few exceptions where it is NOT worth the "coin flip" chance of a job because it is the ONLY regional school there, and you are getting away with very little debt.

I'm not looking for insight on my personal situation as much as trying to see which regionals are considered the strongest aside from an LST standpoint. I hope I am making some sense...

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dextermorgan
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby dextermorgan » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:29 pm

I'm going to get shit for this, but honestly outside the T14 debt doesn't matter. You are gong to be on IBR until forgiveness (either public interest, or private while you work for some small firm if you are lucky). Thus, all that matters is your chance of getting a job that actually requires a JD.

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Ramius
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:33 pm

I'm hereby calling this thread retarded. You can't separate "worth it" from the personal circumstance. In fact, that's all that really matters in deciding whether or not law school is a good investment.

superhopefulwoo
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:34 pm

nebula666 wrote:
superhopefulwoo wrote:Well if like to know for regions I'm looking at but I thought it'd be nice to get the count of regionals that are worth full tuition from people in all areas.

Personally I'm looking at California, Pennsylvania, and Washington State.


CA: Obviously UCLA/USC but also Loyola, Pepperdine, Davis, Hastings, Irvine

PA: Penn State, Pitt, Temple, Villanova

WA: UW, Gonzaga

With a 100% scholarship, no or reasonable stips, and a desire to work in these SPECIFIC markets, all of these are at least decent options.


Thank you nebula. I wish UW would give out full scholarships other than for PI :(.

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Clearly
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby Clearly » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:35 pm

An entirely personal question, all about opportunity cost. Are you giving up a 60k career, or are you a basket weaving major in a saturated market??

superhopefulwoo
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:36 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:I'm hereby calling this thread retarded. You can't separate "worth it" from the personal circumstance. In fact, that's all that really matters in deciding whether or not law school is a good investment.


Thanks for the hostility. There is such a thing as a rule of thumb - a general standard to go by. Anyway, I didn't make this thread because I thought it was intelligent. It was curiosity - and if that's retarded. Oh well. Thanks for your input matthew. Have a WONDERFUL day :) (No sarcasm)

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Ramius
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:36 pm

superhopefulwoo wrote:I'm not looking for insight on my personal situation as much as trying to see which regionals are considered the strongest aside from an LST standpoint. I hope I am making some sense...


The strongest regional in the region is, by definition, the strongest in the region, and therefore worthy of *possibly* being worth a full ride trip there.

/thread

superhopefulwoo
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:40 pm

Clearlynotstefan wrote:An entirely personal question, all about opportunity cost. Are you giving up a 60k career, or are you a basket weaving major in a saturated market??


For general standard's sake, I'm thinking about someone who will not face an opportunity cost by transitioning into a legal career. Someone who wants to practice law and is a good candidate to be a lawyer. Someone with no kids (because I think that is not typical for a law student, even if there are some people who have children) - so someone that is probably supporting themselves financially.

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Ramius
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:45 pm

superhopefulwoo wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:I'm hereby calling this thread retarded. You can't separate "worth it" from the personal circumstance. In fact, that's all that really matters in deciding whether or not law school is a good investment.


Thanks for the hostility. There is such a thing as a rule of thumb - a general standard to go by. Anyway, I didn't make this thread because I thought it was intelligent. It was curiosity - and if that's retarded. Oh well. Thanks for your input matthew. Have a WONDERFUL day :) (No sarcasm)


You call that hostility? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that response was pretty mundane.

Also, there is no such thing as a rule of thumb at life. Maybe a good investment for a person to attend UW on a full ride is a good deal, whereas someone who has been working for years and has a solid income would ultimately be foolish to take on debt and a lack of income for these three years at a shot at a marginal income at law.

Let me extract myself from thinking you were the one looking for advice and just say everyone is capable of doing an honest cost/benefit analysis of their own situation and make a decision accordingly. Anecdotal regional influence is exactly that.

superhopefulwoo
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:51 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:
superhopefulwoo wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:I'm hereby calling this thread retarded. You can't separate "worth it" from the personal circumstance. In fact, that's all that really matters in deciding whether or not law school is a good investment.


Thanks for the hostility. There is such a thing as a rule of thumb - a general standard to go by. Anyway, I didn't make this thread because I thought it was intelligent. It was curiosity - and if that's retarded. Oh well. Thanks for your input matthew. Have a WONDERFUL day :) (No sarcasm)


You call that hostility? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that response was pretty mundane.

Also, there is no such thing as a rule of thumb at life. Maybe a good investment for a person to attend UW on a full ride is a good deal, whereas someone who has been working for years and has a solid income would ultimately be foolish to take on debt and a lack of income for these three years at a shot at a marginal income at law.

Let me extract myself from thinking you were the one looking for advice and just say everyone is capable of doing an honest cost/benefit analysis of their own situation and make a decision accordingly. Anecdotal regional influence is exactly that.


I definitely understand what you are saying. I figured most of us on here wouldn't go to law school at all if we already had solid income. I mean, most of us are intelligent enough to research sites like LST and understand employment prospects. That is why I was directing this more at people who will not risk a severe opportunity cost. But hey, if we are talking in terms of LST - what % employment score would YOU (matthew) say would make a school worth attending at a full tuition scholarship?

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Ramius
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby Ramius » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:02 pm

That is a much more fair question, albeit more individualized and less relevant for the masses. My personal preference is that I would not undertake a law school career with $0 debt for anything less than a T20 in the region I want to end up, and even then it's suspect. I have other options I'm willing to explore and am willing to leave it all on the table.

I'll stop being confrontational altogether here and say that, regardless of region, the top 1-2 schools in a given region would be potentially worth it in that region. In a place like California, you can even exclude Stanford, UCB, UCLA and USC and find 1-2 schools worth the free education.

As to other regions, you look at UF & FSU, BU & BC, etc., they all have marginally decent options in the region, particularly at zero cost.

Still, regardless of confrontation, all I ask is that anyone looking at this thread understands that they need to make honest decisions about their circumstance and move from there. Debt is more scary to deal with than the average 22 year old might be able to deal with.

Edit: as much as you like listing my first name, why does it seem like you're pointing a giant foam finger at me? I don't think I'm trying particularly hard to hide my identity, so these references to my name seem useless. Not trying to be confrontational, just noticed a trend.

Aroldis105
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Re: When is a full ride worth it?

Postby Aroldis105 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:14 pm

There are some regional schools with strong employment numbers. Off the top of my head Kentucky, Alabama, LSU and Arizona would all be good decisions on a full ride, especially with ties. I tend to be of a more liberal mindset when it comes to TLS advice, but I still think that for free these are decent choices. Don't expect to move to NYC or LA after graduation, but if you want to stay local these are good choices.




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