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Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:21 pm
by bayark
I know that the HLS sticker vs CCN with scholarship question has been beaten to death on these boards, but I don't see it as much with YLS thrown in the mix. Just wanted to see what TLS thinks on this one. I'm mainly considering Yale at sticker v. the Root-Tilden-Kern (as with other RTKs, I want to have a well-formed idea of my decision before the interview), but HLS (sticker) is still a possibility.

I know that I'd like to go public interest, and I'm interested in constitutional law and international human rights law (particularly rule of law initiatives). As much as I'd love working in some UN agencies dealing with ROL promotion, I recognize it's a very niche field. I'd be equally content with a variety of legal jobs in DC that allow me some level of involvement with policy.

That said, here's what I'm debating. It seems like RTK does have a great network for PI, but does it really rival that of YLS or HLS? Would NYU provide increased access to UN work? Is full tuition really a game changer in light of COAP from YLS?

And btw, I know that Yale is Yale.

Re: Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:09 pm
by 02889
Congrats on great options! I think niche PI, particularly when it means creating opportunities for yourself where they might not already exist, is one of the areas where Yale's strengths really come out. NYU with little debt is a fantastic outcome, but I think you'll be in the best position to realize your goals at YLS. Good luck on a hard decision!

Re: Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:10 pm
by Rahviveh
02889 wrote:Congrats on great options! I think niche PI, particularly when it means creating opportunities for yourself where they might not already exist, is one of the areas where Yale's strengths really come out. NYU with little debt is a fantastic outcome, but I think you'll be in the best position to realize your goals at YLS. Good luck on a hard decision!


FYI, 02889 is also an RTK candidate :wink:

Re: Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:13 pm
by 02889
ChampagnePapi wrote:
02889 wrote:Congrats on great options! I think niche PI, particularly when it means creating opportunities for yourself where they might not already exist, is one of the areas where Yale's strengths really come out. NYU with little debt is a fantastic outcome, but I think you'll be in the best position to realize your goals at YLS. Good luck on a hard decision!


FYI, 02889 is also an RTK candidate :wink:

My scheming is revealed!

I do believe that OP's career goals can be met by an education at both NYU and YLS, but the flexibility to craft a path where there isn't one, in something like international rule of law, is significantly more likely to be found after attending YLS.

(edit) My own interests mostly involve direct legal services, and so the choice between YLS and NYU for free (as if I have anything close to that) would sway me more towards NYU since placement in that field is less prestige-dependent and having little debt would be very freeing. That said, working with the UN on rule of law development is so dramatically different than direct legal services that I think prestige is what you want to aim for here, OP.

Re: Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:15 pm
by Rahviveh
02889 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
02889 wrote:Congrats on great options! I think niche PI, particularly when it means creating opportunities for yourself where they might not already exist, is one of the areas where Yale's strengths really come out. NYU with little debt is a fantastic outcome, but I think you'll be in the best position to realize your goals at YLS. Good luck on a hard decision!


FYI, 02889 is also an RTK candidate :wink:

My scheming is revealed!

I do believe that OP's career goals can be met by an education at both NYU and YLS, but the flexibility to craft a path where there isn't one, in something like international rule of law, is significantly more likely to be found after attending YLS.


I agree, wasn't trying to give you a hard time.

But there's too many of these presumptuous threads being made when these people haven't even had the interview yet. :?

Re: Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:21 pm
by dixiecupdrinking
My sense is that the RTK will put you in as good a position as anything if you want to do things like civil legal services, public defense, maybe criminal/prison reform kind of stuff, impact litigation or ACLU-type work, things like that. For the kind of rarified thing you're looking at I do think Yale has a tangible advantage (though some NYU grads have certainly done these sorts of jobs).

Re: Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:24 pm
by Ti Malice
dixiecupdrinking wrote:My sense is that the RTK will put you in as good a position as anything if you want to do things like civil legal services, public defense, maybe criminal/prison reform kind of stuff, impact litigation or ACLU-type work, things like that. For the kind of rarified thing you're looking at I do think Yale has a tangible advantage (though some NYU grads have certainly done these sorts of jobs).

Re: Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:36 pm
by 02889
One resource for you to look at when considering immediate career outcomes from NYU is their list of recent graduate placement, available here: http://www.law.nyu.edu/publicinterestla ... /index.htm

You'll see that of 85 or so 2011 grads heading directly into PI, 6 did international work, including:

Arthur Helton Global Human Rights Fellowship, Bureau des Avocats Internationaux (International Lawyers Bureau), Port-au-Prince, Haiti
Arthur Helton Global Human Rights Fellowship, Lawyers Association for the Human Rights of Nepalese Indigenous Peoples (LAHURNIP), Nepal
Human Rights Law Foundation, Connie Smead Fellowship, Washington, D.C.
Institute for Justice and Democracy in Haiti, Boston, MA
NYU School of Law Human Rights Watch Fellowship, New York, NY
OXFAM America, Washington, D.C.
Robert F. Kennedy Center for Justice and Human Rights, Donald M. Wilson Fellowship, New York, NY
The Warnath Group, Washington, D.C.

Re: Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:40 pm
by bayark
ChampagnePapi wrote:
02889 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
FYI, 02889 is also an RTK candidate :wink:

My scheming is revealed!

I do believe that OP's career goals can be met by an education at both NYU and YLS, but the flexibility to craft a path where there isn't one, in something like international rule of law, is significantly more likely to be found after attending YLS.


I agree, wasn't trying to give you a hard time.

But there's too many of these presumptuous threads being made when these people haven't even had the interview yet. :?


I completely understand how presumptuous these can come across, but RTK gives you three days to accept. That is not enough time to go through an entire decision process, and NYU sticker is completely different from RTK, so it's important to have considered it as a real option.

And I'll take that good point on flexibility at face value, 02889!

Re: Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:56 pm
by Ti Malice
OP, it doesn't sound like this applies to you, but I just want to alert any RTK offerees that might stumble upon this thread that they do not need to withdraw apps for which they have not yet received decisions in order to accept the RTK, regardless of what NYU says. See: http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... rency.aspx.

Re: Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:37 am
by Dr. Dre
Yale

Re: Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:54 am
by risa
.

Re: Yale v. Harvard v. NYU (RTK)

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:05 pm
by Ti Malice
risa wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:OP, it doesn't sound like this applies to you, but I just want to alert any RTK offerees that might stumble upon this thread that they do not need to withdraw apps for which they have not yet received decisions in order to accept the RTK, regardless of what NYU says. See: http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... rency.aspx.

I'm quite belated to this conversation, but just read this post and wanted to point out that the RTK contracts NYU emailed to all interview invitees in advance do not say you need to withdraw applications for which you have not yet received a decision - only those from which you have gotten an offer. Not sure if they asked that in the past, but to NYU's defense, they are not trying to "trick" anyone into withdrawing pending applications this year at least.

OP - Have you made your decision?


Glad to see they've changed the contract language.