Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

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dirtrida2
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Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby dirtrida2 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:22 pm

Currently contemplating my full-ride (top 60% stip) at Rutgers Camden.

I also received an annual $1,000 grant from the state of NJ (free money is always nice).

Besides getting into BC/Fordham at sticker (financial suicide) or into William and Mary with a partial-scholly/instate (still waiting on them) - the only other option I would consider is Wake Forest. They gave me a 20k scholarship, but I am still waiting on the results of two competitive scholarships. If I were to be awarded either, it would give me a near full-ride; I would not attend WF with only half-tuition. Though, paying only a few thousand a year would be quite tempting - possibly cheaper; especially given the low COL in comparison to the tri-state.

While my ties are in NJ/NY, I would prefer to get out of this state and into the mid-south - where one can actually afford a decent life, on a 60k salary. I have frequently visited the region (NC/VA/MD) and would be more than happy living down there.

I have taken the LSAT 3 times and invested a lot of time into the exam. Spent 2 years studying/tutored/testing while continuing my law internship and part-time job.

I appreciate any and all feedback (especially in regards to Camden), thanks.

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Bronck
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby Bronck » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:25 pm

Rutgers isn't going to get you out of the region. If you're OK with staying in NJ, have no lofty aspirations (e.g., big law), and you're willing to drop out if you lose the scholarship, then it's probably an OK choice.

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dirtrida2
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby dirtrida2 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:28 pm

Bronck wrote:Rutgers isn't going to get you out of the region. If you're OK with staying in NJ, have no lofty aspirations (e.g., big law), and you're willing to drop out if you lose the scholarship, then it's probably an OK choice.


Yes, I understand that if I attended Camden I would be isolated to the Philly/NJ region. I lived here all my life and that is completely acceptable. I would also drop out before forking over any tuition related fees.

WahooLaw24
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby WahooLaw24 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:30 pm

Bronck wrote:Rutgers isn't going to get you out of the region. If you're OK with staying in NJ, have no lofty aspirations (e.g., big law), and you're willing to drop out if you lose the scholarship, then it's probably an OK choice.


I agree with this.

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Bronck
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby Bronck » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:32 pm

dirtrida2 wrote:
Bronck wrote:Rutgers isn't going to get you out of the region. If you're OK with staying in NJ, have no lofty aspirations (e.g., big law), and you're willing to drop out if you lose the scholarship, then it's probably an OK choice.


Yes, I understand that if I attended Camden I would be either in the Philly/NJ region. I lived here all my life and that is completely acceptable. I also accept that fact that I would drop out before forking over any tuition related fees.


I'm sure someone else can speak more authoritatively on the requisite ties needed to work in NC. But, assuming that attending school there is sufficient, then I think the appropriate hierarchy given your desires would be:

1) Wake Forest, assuming you're awarded the scholarships
2) Rutgers, with the aforementioned caveat of dropping out if you lose the scholarship

TLS is very pessimistic w/r/t legal employment and debt (and rightly so), but I think in your situation, these are acceptable choices. Just keep in mind that there is a real chance you may not land a legal job after graduating.

Ti Malice
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby Ti Malice » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:33 pm

It's not going to be very portable, but Rutgers-Camden for free is reasonable. You should be content with the possibility of winding up in NJ/NY, though. And you should be cognizant of the real risk of winding up with no legal job at all. If you lose the scholarship, you should drop out anyway. Really, if after 1L you're not top-third, you should probably drop out. Save yourself the opportunity costs and avoid the negative effects that a JD will have on your efforts to secure most non-legal employment.

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dirtrida2
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby dirtrida2 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:40 pm

I apologize for any confusion - when I talked about the mid-south I was mainly referring to my attendance at Wake Forest and/or William and Mary (given I am granted the additional scholarship $$).

I wholly accept the prospects coming out of Camden; I know the market is over-saturated and their placement is far from stellar - but with my ties and low COA, I am confident that I could at least come out with some form of employment. I have been an intern for 4+ years now - I understand the positives and mostly negatives that come with the profession. Even with its downsides, I truly enjoy the field. I am not just some K-JD with hopes of gaining that glorious (*sarcasm) :roll: legal job; I know what I am getting myself into.
Last edited by dirtrida2 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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YankeesFan
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby YankeesFan » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:41 pm

WahooLaw24 wrote:I'm sure someone else can speak more authoritatively on the requisite ties needed to work in NC. But, assuming that attending school there is sufficient, then I think the appropriate hierarchy given your desires would be:


As long as you go to school in NC and work there for your 1L summer (assuming your from OOS), you shouldn't have any problems breaking into the market. If you go to Rutgers, without pre-existing ties to NC, you are never going to get a job down here. NC employers are too loyal to Duke/UNC/Wake to pull from Rutgers.

Ti Malice
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby Ti Malice » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:55 pm

dirtrida2 wrote:I apologize for any confusion - when I talked about the mid-south I was mainly referring to my attendance at Wake Forest and/or William and Mary (given I am granted the additional scholarship $$).

I wholly accept the prospects coming out of Camden; I know the market is over-saturated and their placement is far from stellar - but with my ties and low COA, I am confident that I could at least come out with some form of employment. I have been an intern for 4+ years now - I understand the positives and mostly negatives that come with the profession. Even with its downsides, I truly enjoy the field. I am not just some K-JD with hopes of gaining that glorious (*sarcasm) :roll: legal job; I know what I am getting myself into.


Go for it. Just don't be stubborn about leaving if it really doesn't make sense to stay.

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romothesavior
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:56 pm

WahooLaw24 wrote:
Bronck wrote:Rutgers isn't going to get you out of the region. If you're OK with staying in NJ, have no lofty aspirations (e.g., big law), and you're willing to drop out if you lose the scholarship, then it's probably an OK choice.


I agree with this.

+1. Rutgers is a decent regional school and is fine with a full ride. Just understand that biglaw will be very tough, and that it is a very regional school.

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dirtrida2
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby dirtrida2 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:28 pm

I appreciate everyone's input thus far. I have definitely become more debt adverse as the deadlines approach - leaning me more towards Camden.

And yes - I accept the limited portability and regional restrictions - I love NJ it's just expensive, lol.

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dirtrida2
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby dirtrida2 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:42 pm

Update.

Didn't get the extra money I wanted from Wake Forest - while I like the area and school, it's not worth 20k a year in tuition.

Still waiting to hear back from WM, if they gave me instate or at least matched Wakes offer - should I consider paying for a WM degree over Rutgers full ride plus grant money? My instincts say no, but I love the region and reputation WM brings, but how much is too much for a degree there (my initial goal this cycle was to get away from the tristate and work in the mid-south).
Last edited by dirtrida2 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby romothesavior » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:20 am

Rutgers for free + stipend wins hands down.

nebula666
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby nebula666 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:47 am

I would try to get the stip eliminated. Of course you think you will be in the Top 60% but 40% of people who think that are wrong. If you lose your scholarship, it is not worth attending. I know that you think "oh that won't happen to me, I'll be Top 60% no problem" but just be careful.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:50 am

nebula666 wrote:I would try to get the stip eliminated. Of course you think you will be in the Top 60% but 40% of people who think that are wrong. If you lose your scholarship, it is not worth attending. I know that you think "oh that won't happen to me, I'll be Top 60% no problem" but just be careful.

If you're below median at Rutgers you should drop out anyway, but you also shouldn't go in the first place because scholarship stipulations guarantee the school is atrocious.

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dirtrida2
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby dirtrida2 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:44 am

*Please don't quote*

3.66 GPA | 161 LSAT

Took the test three times. Spent four years at my current law internship. Two of those years were spent out of undergrad working part-time, studying, tutoring, and testing. I definitely invested a lot of time and money into this exam; I wish I would have performed better (UVA ED was my initial goal).

My cycle:

W&L - Waitlisted
Fordham - Waitlisted
Boston College - Still waiting on decision
W&M - Still waiting on decision
Wake Forest - $20k
Cardozo - $20k
Seton Hall - $45k
Penn State - $35k
Brooklyn - $41k
St. Johns - Full tuition
Hofstra - $40k
Rutgers Newark - $12k + $3k grant
Rutgers Camden - Full tuition + $3k grant
American - $7.5
U Richmond - Accepted

My initial goal this cycle was to escape NJ and end up in the mid-south, preferably VA/MD/NC. I really like the area and the cost of living - much too expensive here in the tri-state. Unfortunately, most of my offers down south have been sub-par and I am not too fond of taking out 100k in debt. After receiving a full-ride plus grant money to attend Rutgers it looks as if that is my only reasonable choice, next to not attending law school altogether.

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untar614
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby untar614 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:44 pm

Would it be possible for you to move to an area you'd want to be first? Duke or UVA would def be ur best options for those goals, but may seem out of reach if you think youve peaked in ur lsat performance capability. Maybe if u get residency first, u can get a better price at one of the other regional public schools.

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cahwc12
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby cahwc12 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:25 pm

You seem fairly knowledgeable and like you'll end up taking the easy decision (Rutgers-Camden full ride++), so I have to ask:

Why did you apply to American and Brooklyn?

timbs4339
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:27 pm

Yes, if you want to stay in NJ and are fine doing certain kinds of legal work for certain types of clients.

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dirtrida2
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby dirtrida2 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:49 pm

cahwc12 wrote:You seem fairly knowledgeable and like you'll end up taking the easy decision (Rutgers-Camden full ride++), so I have to ask:

Why did you apply to American and Brooklyn?



I applied to most of these schools so that I could use them as leverage in scholarship negotiations.

Brooklyn wasn't a terrible decision - they have top 80% stipulations and handed out a decent chunk of money.

As per American - I assumed they would throw a decent chunk of money my way that I could use for leverage in the region. Boy was I wrong - even applicants with an LSAT score in the high 160's only received a generous (*cough*sarcasm) $20k one-time award.

--

As time progresses, Camden just seems like the right choice financially.

Out of curiosity, does anyone have more information on state grants. Is it Camden who decided to offer me $3k or was it the state of NJ trying to help residents and/or boost their state schools?

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dirtrida2
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby dirtrida2 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:23 pm

Update to my current situation.

Full tuition scholarship, all fees waived, $3,000 in state grants, and a one-time award of $5,000 my first year to defray "moving/living" expenses.

Seems as if R-C is going to be my choice, I reserved a seat.

Looking back in previous threads, its seems that the school has also supplied yearly stipends. Do you think I have reached the end of my negotiations? I definitely see them having a difficult time filling seats, especially with higher LSAT/GPA applicants.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby SemperLegal » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:58 pm

RU-C without any loans is a near of a guarantee that you can get anywhere of not being condemned to a life of drudgery in order to stay out of constant bankruptcy.

Yes, there is still a matter of lost opportunity for the three years. However, without student loans, your bet is sufficiently hedged that I would go for it.

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dirtrida2
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby dirtrida2 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:05 pm

SemperLegal wrote:RU-C without any loans is a near of a guarantee that you can get anywhere of not being condemned to a life of drudgery in order to stay out of constant bankruptcy.

Yes, there is still a matter of lost opportunity for the three years. However, without student loans, your bet is sufficiently hedged that I would go for it.



I fully understand that the job prospects coming out of this school aren't ideal, however I am confident that I could succeed given my very low debt load. With all the stipends and fees covered, I would need to take out $25k max for all three years to cover COL.

I assume this would give me the freedom to clerk and/or flexibility in choosing a job post-grad (granted I am fortunate enough to be in that position).
Last edited by dirtrida2 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PRgradBYU
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby PRgradBYU » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:33 pm

ROFL @ AU offering you $7,500. But if it were me, I'd take the full ride + stipend (only if you can come to terms with the fact that you won't get BigLaw).

y2zipper
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Re: Rutgers Camden - Yes or No?

Postby y2zipper » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:50 pm

Take Rutgers and run... Seriously. 63% legal employment for no debt is worth taking if you enjoy the profession and can live in Jersey.

Maybe you try to knock the stip off the scholarship, but I'd bet on myself to finish and keep that.




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