Re: NYU vs. Penn vs. rest of lower T-14 vs. UCLA $$ and USC $$$
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:38 pm
megagnarley wrote:In regard to LRAP Mich is definitely a competitor. They use a sliding scale to help with payments up to 75k and even count private practice, meaning it doesn't have to be PI related, in addition to letting you slide in and out.
They revamped it in 2011 I believe.
I don't think Michigan's LRAP is much competition for NYU's, as far as I understand it, IF you are set on PI work. NYU has a base of 80k (and caps at 110), whereas Michigan's is around 50. If you bail on it, Michigan pays -- I think -- only interest accrual, whereas NYU pays what you would have paid for those years under a 10 year plan (correct me if I'm wrong). Michigan's advantage is that allows for a little more flexibility in the low salary range, since you can take non PI jobs and still qualify for LRAP.megagnarley wrote:In regard to LRAP Mich is definitely a competitor. They use a sliding scale to help with payments up to 75k and even count private practice, meaning it doesn't have to be PI related, in addition to letting you slide in and out.
They revamped it in 2011 I believe.
I"m in a similar situation to OP and want an informed opinion as to the significance of LRAPs, but there seems to be a shortage which I think comes from not understanding the system's grounding in PSLF. Given PSLF and IBR (or even better, PAYE), the school's LRAP isn't what saves you from crushing debt, though it can certainly make life easier. Most LRAP plans force you on to IBR, under which you pay 15% of discretionary income (let's say it's gross income - 23k). The school is banking on you NOT making enormous sums of money, under which circumstances your 15% is not all that huge - and they pay that 15%, in accordance with their caps etc. After 10 years, provided you meet the PSLF/Government's requirement for PI jobs (namely, working for a 501 c or for the government), poof - it all dissappears.
As I understand it, the issue is commitment to -- and finding -- a qualifying PI job. That being said, it doesn't really matter what the school says qualifies - if you qualified for a school's LRAP and it made your miniscule payments for 10 years and you didn't qualify for forgiveness under PSLF, you're 10 years into a massive loan you haven't made much of a dent in, NOT good.
However, if you were to completely disregard any LRAP, the worst case you're looking at is not as dire as people seem to be implying. You can still maintain your IBR plan (or better yet, switch to PAYE; the same, but with 10% of discretionary income as opposed to 15%). The debt doesn't preclude you from having a family as Nelson suggests.
Consider this: you do some PI work, have a family, and you stop working. You'd probably need to file separately from your SO, but if your income is 0 (though hard to have a family off of...), your monthly payment is zero. Say you've made 5 years of payment. Family time over, you go back to work in PI, make another 5 years of payments, paying 10% of discretionary income, and then it's forgiven.
If you had roughly a full 10 years of work in PI with no LRAP help, averaging let's say 80 k, and joined PAYE, then your yearly payment average is about 6k (or $500/month). It's not ideal, but with an 80k salary it's not necessarily crushing. After 10 years the remaining balance is forgiven and you paid, in total after graduation: 60k.
That being said, the question is whether you're committed to working at a 501 c or with the government, because with a mega-debt you have very little other choice. In the family example, your debt is going to be fucking hideous, growing 7% while you're not working, and possibly by less even when you are.
As I understand it, the problem isn't a vague risk of a heinous albatross of debt, it's being pigeonholed into one of these types of jobs before you even go to law-school or know the tax status of employers. Please correct me though.
On that note - does anyone have a sense on what proportion of "PI" work actually falls within 501 c or gov't jobs? I can imagine certain things which don't (e.g. a civil rights firm), but it'd be nice to have a general sense of the market.